olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Zemirah "Oleg, It is we who have changed. We are now born again, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, this isn't telling us to no longer honor the Words of Jesus while He ministered 3 1/2 years here on earth.
His Words are as sacred as they were when He walked on earth. We have changed and we now recognize Him as God and the Son of God, and have the Holy Spirit to enable us to follow His example.
Your idea that we are now to ignore Jesus Words and listen only to Paul's words is a private, unsubstantiated opinion on your part, a private interpretation that ignores the rest of Scripture."

Nice dodge, so now you are attempting to reply to me with the words I revealed to you?
You say we have changed, and I agree for I am the one who pointed out to you we are indwelt by the Spirit.
We are born again, placed in Christ, and we go straight to the Throne upon physical death.

I say words I revealed to you because in past posts you have spoken as if you did not know these things by saying Abraham was saved just like us; however Luke 16 proves you in error.
HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR OPINION OF ABRAHAM'S SALVATION in your mind without admitting to the class you were in error in this regard?
To what extent are we to follow what Jesus did? Are we to go be baptized in the Jordan, are we to go to the Temple?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I did not say ignore the words of Jesus, I said as does the Bible teaches we are to no longer follow what He said in the flesh but to follow what He said in the Spirit through Paul.

If you strongly believe we are to follow the doctrine instructions of Jesus then on His command of Matt 5:42 I ask you to send me $1,000.

Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Matthew 5:42 -KJV

Zemirah "You keep exclaiming about a multitude of viewers; they are free to participate."
Check out the number of views where you can easily see there are more than just you and I.
I assume from past experience they maybe either be bored by having to sort your dazzle or a bit taken back by it.

Zemirah "Read in its context, Romans 8:1, in the King James does not tell us to no longer obey Jesus teachings, but only Paul.

We are now born again, into the body of Christ, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and are therefore to walk in Him, NOT in the flesh.

We are to follow both Jesus and Paul's teachings, and all the inspired Words of all the New Testament writers."

Romans 8:1-4
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I'm afraid in this instance you don't understand Paul's use of the word flesh. Perhaps it would have been plainer for you had Paul used the words: "walk not after Jesus when He was in the flesh, but follow Jesus now when He is passing His instructions by the Spirit to us through me."

Zemirah "as if the seven manmade opinions on God's dispensational timetable was not completely understandable where it actually exists in the text, and where it is mere speculation should be tossed aside."

If it is so easily understood, why do you NOT understand that Abraham was NOT saved just like us and therefore we are NOT saved just Abraham?

Zemirah "As for your understanding, Oleg. You said you don't read my entire posts, just the beginning and end. How could you possibly expect to understand anything in that manner?"

Didn't say I did not read them, just indicated I don't dabble in dazzle and wishing to get straight to the point rather than taking the time to be drowned in dazzle.

Zemirah "To understand the Bible, read it in context, not just the beginning, or just the ending, or just the middle."

Are you now saying your words have Biblical status?

Zemirah "Don't try to browbeat me. I don't browbeat.
Again, you are claiming I said things I didn't say."

Why is it all self-proclaimed scholars always take on a cover of insult when asked if they might prove their postulates with scripture? Is asking for scriptural proof browbeating? I will acknowledge most times it does take a little browbeating to demonstrate their scriptural denial.

Ok, we'll give you another attempt.
Please tell us the complete method of father Abraham's salvation keeping in mind he did NOT go directly to the Throne upon his physical death.
This is your chance to prove your Biblical knowledge. And please leave off the dazzle.

Zemirah "Don't ever put your faith in any human teacher for your salvation."

Very, very good advice. It is expressly for this reason why I'm continually questioning your implication that we are saved just like Abraham when the dear reader can easily read Luke 16 for themselves.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Zemirah is the following truth or error? Perhaps wearing your most scholarly hat you might explain that when your beloved niv says "all" it really does not mean all.

Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?
Hebrews 3:16 NIV

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Zemirah” This is my last response on this thread. Your technique is not only based on self professed "trickery," it is an exercise in futility.”

Sad to see you go and yes I do have the habit of answering in kind.
Once you started with the condescension, all politeness was out the window.
You set the pace, I just kept up.
Humm the trickery thing. Is this just another case of shooting the messenger? Are you a liberal democratic?
It was you who stated Abraham was saved just like us and it was you who stated your beloved niv the word of God in English.

Do you always find it trickery when someone asks for scriptural support?
Is it trickery to be unsaddled from one’s high horse?
I can certainly see the response on your part might be tricky, but to term that trickery on my part should be beneath you.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

“our dilemma”.........You’re probably, more than likely, all on your own in this
supposed dilemma! IMHO! 😳

Since you’ve been here less than two months, it may benefit you to go to Zemirah’s user page and read her very informative comments, especially the threads that she has shared some of her vast knowledge and her Evangelical beliefs! This will probably solve some of your confusing questions!

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

I have no doubt Zemirah has a fine history and has done great work for the Lord; however I feel it very important to know and recite all Biblical doctrines as they stand in scripture.
I have seen time after time a new convert dive into scripture coming across seemingly contradictory passages. It's very important not to just witness and hopefully find someone converted by the Holy Spirit, but to also guide them in their search and not remain a babe in Christ.

The very fact of a new convert being told Abraham is saved just like us and then that new convert reads Luke 19....... many times turns the new convert off and puts out any fire they may have had.
I've seen the same thing when the new convert is told Joshua and Caleb both followed Moses out of Egypt then they read a corrupt version which says no one from Egypt entered the Promised Land.

We cannot just get someone saved and then move on, we should help them grow in Christ.

Tell you what, if you or anyone here can scriptural prove Abraham went straight to Heaven upon his physical death, I will admit my error and resign from this forum.
But I do appreciate your input.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Sorry, the above should have read Luke 16.
Never was great at typing and now seems other skills like proof-reading are in question.
Last year my grandkids let me hide my own Easter eggs.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

First of all....We do not get someone saved! Second.....no one has claimed that Abraham went straight to heaven......you’ve been having this argument all by yourself!

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Let me first say I respect everyone and anyone's opinion when given in humility; however what I do not respect is an opinion given from authority based on one's qualification derived from earthly accomplishments when that opinion openly and plainly does not a-line with scripture.
This is one reason I rarely read autobiographical description of one's self and nor do I offer one of me.
In Biblical apologetics the only thing that matters is the Bible.

Now let me re-present the dilemma as I see it for your critique.

It has been stated: Abraham was saved just like us. Ok, we can agree to that, but to a point. Certainly in the end, after the cross, when Jesus went down in witness (Eph 4:8-10) to those in Abraham's bosom; He covered them with His shed blood and led them away to Heaven.
So to this end we can say Abraham was saved just like us; but when the one making the statement was pressed to include the passage of Luke 16:19...... in the mix, we were presented with only silence.

If a babe in Christ is told Abraham was saved just like us, then it follows we are saved just like Abraham. Now let us suppose that same babe stubbles onto Luke 16 without the further Biblical revelation of Eph 4. That babe might consider the truth of Luke 16 alone and fall into a religion that teaches the dead going to purgatory. However that same babe might also compare Luke 16 with the following:

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV

Now we have that babe in Christ in total confusion. Sure we got them saved, but did we train them up to be fruit producers themselves?
Following Biblical truth we should tell them the OT Saint was saved from hell by following God's instructions to them, they went to a place of comfort (the bosom of Abraham) until the blood was shed and then spread on them.
No one can be at the Throne without being covered by the blood of Christ or else the precious shed blood carries no power.

I grew up in and still attend a Southern Baptist Church. The SBC has some "statements" of theology which are traditionally based rather than Biblically base. One of which is we are saved by looking back on the cross while the OT Saints were saved by looking forward to the cross. This statement is not Biblical!

In all ages or dispensations the one common denominator is that man finds the salvation of God by doing what God told him to do.
The other truth is that the blood of Christ cannot be physically spread until it was physically spread. (Heb 10:4)

We are told to put on the whole armor of God; therefore when we see a hole in a brother or sister's armor we should help mend it and in the receiving of mending ourselves from others, we should accept it gracefully.

Whether you agree or not, I have presented my dilemma.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

My goodness, y'all are a close-knit circle. Did you not read what I just said???

"It's very important not to just witness and hopefully find someone converted by the Holy Spirit,"

I gave her ample opportunity to explain her statement.

Perhaps you might like to explain the conflict of Num 14:30 with Heb 3:16 in her stead?

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

Seems like I read somewhere that Jesus said some folks swallow a camel but gag on a gnat. (paraphrase),
if you have a problem with Zemriah's biblical knowledge IMHO you really have a problem.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

How can I have a problem with anyone's Biblical knowledge as yet, having seen none.

Perhaps you might tell us if Jesus was indeed speaking to Christians in the Body of Christ about the Rapture of the Church at John 14, was Paul being untruthful when he claimed to be the first to reveal that mystery?
Also please tell us who are the "guests" of Matt 22:10?
And, if you would, tell us if the eunuch in the latter part of Acts 8 was saved by belief or water baptism?

Also please give your explanation of why even father Abraham did NOT go directly to the Throne upon his physical death as shown in Luke 16.

Also please expose some Biblical knowledge by defending all modern versions at their seemingly error of Heb 3:16.

I suppose one can make application of the gnat camel thing to various things of one's wishes. However in context we see Jesus pronouncing woes upon the Pharisees for thinking on their own self righteous glory while ignoring the Word.
Tell me: do you believe we have God's inspired word in English today that we can hold in our hand?

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

It is really not up to you or me to declare. The Spirit of God has and is protecting His word. Your opinion or interpretations nor mine will ever trump the truth of the Word God that has preserved over the centuries. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I suppose if the King James version was good enough for Paul it should be good enough for us. hahahahaha

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

quote=Zemirah:"You said your "trick" is to confound others by interjecting your dispensational theory..."End/quote

quote=olegig:
"Humm the trickery thing. Is this just another case of shooting the messenger? Are you a liberal democratic?...
Do you always find it trickery when someone asks for scriptural support?
Is it trickery to be unsaddled from one’s high horse?
I can certainly see the response on your part might be tricky, but to term that trickery on my part should be beneath you."End/quote


https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-210449-5.html#3664602
quote=olegig: "Nope, just one of Tyndale's plowboys who reads and studies the KJB.
The problem with commentaries is the author always has an agenda. They freely present scriptures that agree with and support their agenda while neglecting the passages that disagree.
I can give passages that support catholism, church of Christ, fundamentalism, or any other so-called Christian denomination because they are all based in scripture.

The trick is in the proper placement of doctrine to the audience and proper time frame."End/quote

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Thank you, TexaCan, for your kind words.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Seventy succinct words of wisdom

{Some common synonyms of succinct are compendious, concise, laconic, pithy, summary, and terse. While all these words mean "very brief in statement or expression," succinct implies the greatest possible compression.}