Oleg, There is a great deal you don't understand.
Salvation Not By Works: 32 Bible Verses
Psalm 49:7-8
No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—
For the redemption of his soul is costly,
And he should cease trying forever—
Psalm 127:1-2
A Song of Ascents, of Solomon.
Unless the Lord builds the house,
They labor in vain who build it;
Unless the Lord guards the city,
The watchman keeps awake in vain.
It is vain for you to rise up early,
To retire late,
To eat the bread of painful labors;
For He gives to His beloved even in his sleep.
Isaiah 64:6
For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
Ezekiel 7:19
They will fling their silver into the streets and their gold will become an abhorrent thing; their silver and their gold will not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their appetite nor can they fill their stomachs, for their iniquity has become an occasion of stumbling.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Romans 8:3
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Romans 9:16
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.Galatians 5:2
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.Acts 13:39
and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.Romans 3:20-30
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;Romans 4:1-7
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”Romans 9:31-32
but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,1 Corinthians 13:1-3
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.Galatians 3:10-12
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
Galatians 4:9-11
But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 6:15
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Philippians 3:3-9
for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
Colossians 2:20-23
If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 4:3-10
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“As I swore in My wrath,
They shall not enter My rest,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.”
Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
James 2:10-11
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
Romans 3:20
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Luke 18:9-14
And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.read more.
Matthew 5:20
“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
olegig wrote:
Zemirah"You are clearly contradicting God, for it is written in Genesis 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
He was looking ahead 2,400 years to Jesus' "propitiationary atonement" through His shed blood on Calvary, which was applied retroactively to all the old Testament saints.
God considered it a "done deal.""
After over 30 yrs of Biblical discussion on the web I go for brevity, it seems to give clarity. I've found most times when someone is attempting to make a non-Biblical point they first pronounce an agreeable premise and then proceed with much writing in the hopes the reader accepts the premise as proof of the position. However all one must do is closely apply the premise to their conclusion to learn if the rest is worth the time. Cutting off the long writing is much akin to cutting off the head of a snake leaving the rest to lay.
Your premise is that Abraham was counted righteous, to which you conclude he was saved just like you and I.
The thing you have overlooked is James 2:21 tells us Abraham was justified when he offered up Isaac which is separated by several chapters and many years.
We today in this Age of Grace are declared righteous AND justified at the very same moment of conversion! James also tells us Abraham's justification came by works while God tells us we today are justified by the FAITH of CHRIST.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16 KJV
In order to prove your position you must show:
Abraham or any other OT Saint being indwelt by the Holy Spirit as we are.
Abraham or any other OT Saint being placed in Christ as we are.
Abraham or any other OT Saint being covered by the preciously shed blood of Christ before it was physically shed at CALVARY!
Abraham going straight to the Throne of God upon his physical death as we do. Check out Luke 16 where we find Abraham within shooting distance of hell itself.
For the life of me I cannot understand how someone can spread the blood of Christ before it was shed when God Himself DOES NOT!
Perhaps you would do well to buy a book and learn a little dispensationalism while throwing your un-Biblical fundamentalism in the ditch.
Zemirah"You are clearly contradicting God, fo... (
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