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American Christians See A Rapid Decline In Numbers Over Past Decade: Study
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Oct 18, 2019 16:44:00   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
padremike wrote:
Is it true that pastors in Canada are no longer allowed to condemn homosexuality from their pulpit?

Christian churches are open to all repentant sinners, regardless of the sin, who desire to accept Christ and follow Him. Conversely those same doors must remain closed to those who are unrepentant and demand God and all Church doors be open to them and accept them as they are. When they demand we must open our doors to them out of Christian love they are using God concept of love against Him and us to accept that which God will never accept........sin! All Christian churches are filled with sinners, albeit repentant sinners, who sin every day and seek forgiveness. Those who consciously do not seek forgiveness for sin really have no need for Christ.
Is it true that pastors in Canada are no longer al... (show quote)


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Oct 18, 2019 19:04:06   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
padremike wrote:
Is it true that pastors in Canada are no longer allowed to condemn homosexuality from their pulpit?

Christian churches are open to all repentant sinners, regardless of the sin, who desire to accept Christ and follow Him. Conversely those same doors must remain closed to those who are unrepentant and demand God and all Church doors be open to them and accept them as they are. When they demand we must open our doors to them out of Christian love they are using God concept of love against Him and us to accept that which God will never accept........sin! All Christian churches are filled with sinners, albeit repentant sinners, who sin every day and seek forgiveness. Those who consciously do not seek forgiveness for sin really have no need for Christ.
Is it true that pastors in Canada are no longer al... (show quote)


Hi Padre... Hope you are well...

I have not heard of it... I know that in a number of provinces the Bible has been labelled as hate literature...But I believe pastors are still able to condemn the sin of homosexuality...

There are some churches that now accept homosexuality ..But they are still the minority...


Apologies....But how would one determine who is "actively" seeking repentance?

Example: Should gluttons be allowed to attend church? How about adulterers?
How about non-christians?

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Oct 18, 2019 19:59:56   #
rumitoid
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
There are churches that ban gays from attending?

That is disgusting


Agreed.

Reply
 
 
Oct 18, 2019 20:10:01   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
What study are you referring to?

God did indeed tell us that the act of homosexuality was an abomination. Christ never negated that. The verses are easy to find in both the Old and New Testament. There is no ambiguity.

A church can’t condone its members living in open defiance though we are to encourage them to repent.

Galations 6:1 - Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Matthew 18:15-17 tells us how to deal with sin in the Church.

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
What study are you referring to? br br God did ... (show quote)


Rose, there is great ambiguity about every verse against homosexuality. For instance, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination [towebah].” Leviticus 18:22

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination [towebah]: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:13

Don't Get Confused. “In the twenty first century many Christians confuse modern homosexuality, non-cultic same sex attraction, with the ancient world’s sexual abuse of slaves, rape of foreigners, pederasty and pagan fertility rites. None of those ancient practices are analogs to modern homosexuality.”

Constitutional attorneys sometimes discuss the idea of "original intent." In answering this question about homosexuality, understanding original intent in scripture is vitally important. If we rip verses out of context and use the out of context verses to condemn our gay brothers and lesbian sisters, we sin against God and His truth in scripture.

Was God talking about modern, twenty first century gay marriage or committed faithful non-cultic same sex partnerships or was He talking about pagan sexual rituals in worship of the Canaanite fertility goddess? Context is important.

There is no evidence in the Bible that God or OT Jews or Jesus Christ Himself understood Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 as prohibiting committed faithful non-cultic same sex partnerships. The homosexuality wrong idea comes from taking verses out of context.

We know that because, although Sodom is mentioned 48 times in the Bible, not once in 48 verses of scripture in the Old and New Testaments does God ever reference homosexuality when He speaks of Sodom.

Although anti-gay Christians wish the Bible talked about homosexuality whenever Sodom is mentioned, God just doesn’t make that connection in the Bible in any of the 48 verses which mention Sodom. Since God doesn't make that connection, why are you making that connection? Think about that for a while before you assume homosexuality is wrong.

Did you know that in the Bible, the term eunuch sometimes describes a gay man? Do you remember reading what Jesus said about eunuchs in Matthew 19:3-12?

“But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” Matthew 19:11-12.

Jesus said there are three kinds of eunuchs and the first class of eunuchs He mentions are those eunuchs who "were so born from their mother's womb." Matthew 19:12.
https://www.gaychristian101.com/Homosexuality-Wrong.html

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Oct 18, 2019 20:10:41   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I am working on a thread concerning this... In response to one of Tommy's old threads...

When I get near completion I would be interested on your take...I think I have a decent argument...But it's always easy to overlook holes in one's own argument....


Will help if I can, but if I disagree don't get mad at me, ha.

Reply
Oct 18, 2019 20:13:52   #
rumitoid
 
Peewee wrote:
Why do you love judging others? Clean your own house (heart, mind, and soul) and you shall be clean. You seem to be divided in most all things. The story of Sodom and Gemorah should be enough of an explanation to satisfy most people of the sin of homosexuality. Angels are always referred to as males and those banging on Lot's door were males. Lot had already offered them his two daughters and they weren't interested in them. I hope that's understandable to you. God hates divorce but allowed Moses to grant them due to the hardness of men's hearts. Keep reading the scriptures and ask God to reveal what you don't understand. Because of sin everyone dies, even the two who were taken by God and haven't tasted death will return during the end times and die in the streets of Jerusalem and the world will send each other gifts celebrating their deaths. There are no escape clauses in the Bible but one, Jesus, you can look for others as long as you like but you'll be wasting your time. God will judge each one according to their acts, not someone else's. Before Jesus, you could be saved if God considered you righteous.
Why do you love judging others? Clean your own hou... (show quote)


"...if God considered you righteous"? God alone makes me righteous, covered by the blood of the lamb.

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Oct 18, 2019 20:14:35   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
rumitoid wrote:
Rose, there is great ambiguity about every verse against homosexuality. For instance, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination [towebah].” Leviticus 18:22

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination [towebah]: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:13

Don't Get Confused. “In the twenty first century many Christians confuse modern homosexuality, non-cultic same sex attraction, with the ancient world’s sexual abuse of slaves, rape of foreigners, pederasty and pagan fertility rites. None of those ancient practices are analogs to modern homosexuality.”

Constitutional attorneys sometimes discuss the idea of "original intent." In answering this question about homosexuality, understanding original intent in scripture is vitally important. If we rip verses out of context and use the out of context verses to condemn our gay brothers and lesbian sisters, we sin against God and His truth in scripture.

Was God talking about modern, twenty first century gay marriage or committed faithful non-cultic same sex partnerships or was He talking about pagan sexual rituals in worship of the Canaanite fertility goddess? Context is important.

There is no evidence in the Bible that God or OT Jews or Jesus Christ Himself understood Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 as prohibiting committed faithful non-cultic same sex partnerships. The homosexuality wrong idea comes from taking verses out of context.

We know that because, although Sodom is mentioned 48 times in the Bible, not once in 48 verses of scripture in the Old and New Testaments does God ever reference homosexuality when He speaks of Sodom.

Although anti-gay Christians wish the Bible talked about homosexuality whenever Sodom is mentioned, God just doesn’t make that connection in the Bible in any of the 48 verses which mention Sodom. Since God doesn't make that connection, why are you making that connection? Think about that for a while before you assume homosexuality is wrong.

Did you know that in the Bible, the term eunuch sometimes describes a gay man? Do you remember reading what Jesus said about eunuchs in Matthew 19:3-12?

“But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” Matthew 19:11-12.

Jesus said there are three kinds of eunuchs and the first class of eunuchs He mentions are those eunuchs who "were so born from their mother's womb." Matthew 19:12.
https://www.gaychristian101.com/Homosexuality-Wrong.html
Rose, there is great ambiguity about every verse a... (show quote)


People change, God doesn't, no matter what year or century it is. Jesus always agrees with His Father.

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Oct 18, 2019 20:15:35   #
rumitoid
 
Peewee wrote:
Why? A little leaven (sin) spoils the bread batter. Until they repent first, why should they allow them into the congregation? Might be why so many are leaving the churches. The word is being watered down and of no effect. No walls, no borders, no absolutes. Kind of like fuzzy math. The dumber we get, the easier it will be to convince people with need to merge with AI and machines. That's why the world is growing darker and more violent, Satan is running out of time and so are we, IMHO.


Did you miss the huge point about the divorced unchallenged about their sinful lifestyle by churches?

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Oct 18, 2019 20:16:30   #
rumitoid
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
So as long as they are subtle about the sin they should be allowed to worship in church?

We are commanded to forgive... That doesn't come through ostracism...But through acceptance of the weakness of our brothers...


Excellent!

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Oct 18, 2019 20:17:05   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
rumitoid wrote:
Did you miss the huge point about the divorced unchallenged about their sinful lifestyle by churches?


No, and I addressed it. Go back and check.

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Oct 18, 2019 20:18:53   #
rumitoid
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I have never asked for apologies, though I appreciate them... Forgiveness is an independent act that doesn't require anything from the party receiving it, only the party giving it...

A pastor's job is to educate, not protect... One would hope that the flock would recognize a lost sheep and welcome them into the community...

One would hope that all people take the time to read their Bibles and seek after God... But the picture one is seeing is of an elite club, closed to those who don't meet the criteria... One would do best to leave such distinctions to the Lord...

Stealing church funds is breaking the secular law... As turning them in and pressing charges is secular... If said individual wished to return and worship one would hope that the church remained open to them...

All of this is just my opinion of course
I have never asked for apologies, though I appreci... (show quote)


Great points!

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Oct 18, 2019 20:20:38   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
That doesn't mean let unrepentant sinners keep coming to church nor does it mean you don't love them. If it did then we wouldn't have been told what to do in Matthew as noted earlier.

And as Paul wrote to the Corinthian congregation -

1 Corinthians 5:11 - But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

That doesn't mean there is an absence of love.
That doesn't mean let unrepentant sinners keep com... (show quote)


How do you assess they are unrepentant? How do you assess the rest of the congregation is not?

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Oct 18, 2019 20:20:45   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Peewee wrote:
Will help if I can, but if I disagree don't get mad at me, ha.


Never...


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Oct 18, 2019 20:25:20   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Did he eat with the Pharisees? He ate with the sinners who came to him and repented. He always rebuked the unrepentant.

For many attending church IS a social event.


Jesus did not always rebuke the unrepentant; that is a gross lie. Check all his miracles. He never even asked for their belief in him or repentance. And no rebuke.

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Oct 18, 2019 20:26:45   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Did he eat with the Pharisees? He ate with the sinners who came to him and repented. He always rebuked the unrepentant.

For many attending church IS a social event.


"Did he eat with Pharisees?" He ate with Matthew, a hated tax collector.

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