Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I have never asked for apologies, though I appreciate them... Forgiveness is an independent act that doesn't require anything from the party receiving it, only the party giving it...

A pastor's job is to educate, not protect... One would hope that the flock would recognize a lost sheep and welcome them into the community...

One would hope that all people take the time to read their Bibles and seek after God... But the picture one is seeing is of an elite club, closed to those who don't meet the criteria... One would do best to leave such distinctions to the Lord...

Stealing church funds is breaking the secular law... As turning them in and pressing charges is secular... If said individual wished to return and worship one would hope that the church remained open to them...

All of this is just my opinion of course

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

But seeking is the first step...

Why deny anyone that first step?

Rose42

I never even suggested denying anyone the first step.

"But the picture one is seeing is of an elite club, closed to those who don't meet the criteria... One would do best to leave such distinctions to the Lord... "

That's the picture you see because you want all included regardless if they are confronted and don't repent or not. But that's not what the bible tells us to do. Because as Peewee said " a little leaven leavens the whole lump". Galatians 5:9

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

bahmer

Amen and Amen

Rose42

That doesn't mean let unrepentant sinners keep coming to church nor does it mean you don't love them. If it did then we wouldn't have been told what to do in Matthew as noted earlier.

And as Paul wrote to the Corinthian congregation -

1 Corinthians 5:11 - But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

That doesn't mean there is an absence of love.

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

I never ask for apologies either. It's a good indication of a person's heart if they do or don't apologize on their own.

Totally disagree. A good Shepard lays down his life to protect the flock. Feel free to use David or Jesus as an example.

Maybe, who decides who is and isn't elite. Is it because their clothes are nicer, bigger home, car, disposable income? Every group becomes a group because they have some kind of common interest. If you don't fit in keep looking for where you do fit. Maybe God is protecting you from becoming another narcissistic member of an elite club.

Secular law? You do know most original secular law came from the Ten Commandments, don't you? Most laws today don't even try to line up with the Ten Commandments.

All this is just my opinion, based on how I understand scriptures, and I always have more to learn. I've had to update my understanding many times. Since paganism is making a comeback, I'm having a real problem with "Thy shalt not kill (murder)" even today. But that "vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" is the only thing stopping me. Unlike Thomas Jefferson, I will not cut and paste my own Bible, no matter how much I'd like to.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Yes... I have always wondered about this passage... Seems that Christ would have eaten with them..Odd, no?

In any case... Attending Church is not a social event... There would be no "associating" with anyone... It is a place of worship...

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Where did we mention Matthew?

Was it this? " If there is no change in behavior after confronting them three times are no longer welcome at church."

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

But can you forgive them without receiving an apology?



Here we agree... But that is a personal sacrifice...



Hate this idea... This is what divides the Church... All should be welcome... As all are sinners...
My point was that Church should not be restrictive concerning access....



In the west... Certainly...

the theft scenario you mentioned would have been a case for secular law..



I am working on a thread concerning this... In response to one of Tommy's old threads...

When I get near completion I would be interested on your take...I think I have a decent argument...But it's always easy to overlook holes in one's own argument....

Rose42

Did he eat with the Pharisees? He ate with the sinners who came to him and repented. He always rebuked the unrepentant.

For many attending church IS a social event.

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

Eating with them was also witnessing to them, no? It doesn't mean you allow them into the Temple.

Attending church is both. You worship and sing together and sometimes eat and drink together. The same people on the same property but often in different locations or rooms. But all designed to build unity among the brethren. A gathering of two or more. The Upper Room is the best example I can think of. Even Judas was in the group. He was sent "out" by the way. Just like all who fall short on Judgment Day will be.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Is it true that pastors in Canada are no longer allowed to condemn homosexuality from their pulpit?

Christian churches are open to all repentant sinners, regardless of the sin, who desire to accept Christ and follow Him. Conversely those same doors must remain closed to those who are unrepentant and demand God and all Church doors be open to them and accept them as they are. When they demand we must open our doors to them out of Christian love they are using God concept of love against Him and us to accept that which God will never accept........sin! All Christian churches are filled with sinners, albeit repentant sinners, who sin every day and seek forgiveness. Those who consciously do not seek forgiveness for sin really have no need for Christ.

Rose42

I had to check myself when I read that. I have a problem with that one too. I praise God he gave us the word to overcome it.

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

You don't "seek" repentance, you do it. Repentance means to change and go in another direction. You don't seek to go in another direction...you GO in another direction!