Did I mention several times that it is a BAD situation? ALL the options are bad.

What is, net, even worse is getting YOU, ^&*()_ lawyers, )(*&^% politicians, and governments involved.

You CAN NOT, NOT, NOT net help.
Stay the heck OUT of motherhood.

You are having a really tough time understanding that.

You are correct. While trying to be factious, actually are correct. ONLY the mother counts.

But your example is badly aimed: Darwin already took care of that. In nearly all normal cases, by the time a woman has gone to term and delivers a healthy baby, then it will be "MY BABY"!!! She will totally or nearly so be dev**ed to her baby. As the baby nurses, the two will BOND. If at all possible, they "Will make a place at life's table." something like you said. If she is poor, then our society will give her a LOT of help. E.g., the Community Health Centers and the Hill-Burton hospitals will provide medical care for free or nearly so. For expensive drugs, they may write out a prescription with a note to be taken to a certain drug store in a poor neighborhood where magic, presto, bingo, the prescription is filled for free. For Christmas, the US Marines and the FLOTUS will do a Toys for Tots show. No one wants to see a good mother unable to keep and care for her baby. So, in such a case, saying that it is 100% up to the mother is fine, your fears not withstanding.

But this does NOT cover ALL the cases. Then in those cases, again, once again, over again, yet again, one more time, this time just for you, of all the bad solutions available, when only bad solutions are available, it is best for our society to realize that we need to keep the ^&*()_+ lawyers and the &^%$#@ politicians OUT, OUT, OUT of the situation, keep OUT EVERYONE BUT the mother. You don't count. Actually in this case, the baby doesn't count either.

As I wrote, if you care so much about the baby, then adopt it.

If you care so much about the mothers, then start helping them NOW, arranging prenatal care and helping their babies until they are out of college -- chip in the $3 million or so it takes to do a good job.

If you care so much about the quality of life in our society, then take VERY seriously the plight of a mother with a seriously deformed or non viable fetus, e.g., one with spina bifida as in the fully revealing and poignant post above by the mother. For such a mother, she's got problems enough so that it's 100% HER decision and NONE of your %^&*()_ business. Same for the @#$%^& lawyers and politicians, screaming, sanctimonious moralizers looking for attention and power over the lives of others, etc.

I strongly support Trump, but this is where he is on the way to going nasty. It IS a time to turn off Hannity and Ingraham. What Newt and his wife want, I don't know, and I suspect that in public they will stay quiet on the issue.

I've explained CLEARLY, here, more than once. The mother with a spina bifida fetus explained 10^1000 times more strongly. Read those statements over and over and over until you are too weak to read them again, finally think of the MOTHER, and GIVE it UP. You are not God and can't improve on God.

"No collusion" is a Trump lie?

Mueller has been going strong for 2 or so years and so far has found none, nichts, nil, nada, zip, zilch, zero evidence of collusion between anyone or anything having to do with Russia and anyone or anything having to do with the Trump campaign.

Recently the Chair of the Senate Intelligence committee, with access to lots of highly classified information, and 200 witnesses said that they found no evidence.

Where's your evidence or references to objective, credible evidence of collusion.

Well, again, once again, over again, one more time, an anti-Trump spam worker has struck out, never hit the ball on any evidence and again in effect given Trump a unique, world-class clean bill of health.

Butt, butt, butt that would cause g****l w*****g and make the sea level rise and flood NYC!!!!

That would be awful, right, except, hope, hope, hope, maybe for some parts of NYC???

Okay, that might be serious, the lying part if not the rest.

He exaggerates, in his confession, "harmless exaggerations".

Like a lot of people successful in business, he uses ABC -- Always Be Closing.

Recently maybe he has run up some trial balloons.

But lies? Again, what are your three most significant examples, sure, with credible, objective references with solid data, e.g., exact quotes of what he said, with references, and why it was a lie.

You have at least three examples, right?

We're talking lies? Okay what about what Obama said about ObamaCare before the law passed? Easy enough to find on Google (a lot of politicians will come to H**E Google!) is at

https://www.politifact.com/obama-like-health-care-keep/

awash in statements by Obama that now commonly are regarded as not true, especially the one

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan."

and

"The only change you’ll see are falling costs as our reforms take hold."

One that I always liked was his statement about the costs of an amputation. His cost figure was wildly too high, and right away the American College of Surgeons slapped him down hard with IIRC "uninformed, misinformed, just plain wrong, dangerous". The associated Web page is down now, but I still have a copy and can post it if needed.

As long as you are shooting at Trump not just on "lies" but possibly everything else, what about what Obama did giving money to Iran that is still shouting "Death to America" and "Death to Israel"?

What about how Obama dumped on our two best allies, England and Israel?

What about Obama's IIRC "You can tell Vladimir that after the e******n I'll have more flexibility." Now that's REAL "collusion with Russia".

We can also count Hillary with her famous lie about B******i and "That awful Internet video." -- a total lie; in fact, it had nothing to do with the attack.

Let's see some Trump lies. You have some juicy ones, right, not to compete with Obama or Hillary but still juicy, right? So far, as an obvious Trump h**er coming up with no evidence, you are just giving Trump a very clean bill of health.

You talk the talk. Now lets see you walk the walk. Or time to show your cards, face up on the table, to put up.

You don't have to give us your long, full list of Trump lies. Three of the worst will do.

Since I don't want to be wrong about Trump, I'm eager to learn about your list of Trump lies.

Once on the comments at 'Breitbart' I had a very similar exchange. Their main response was that they had too many Trump lies to post any -- gee, I only asked for three! Their next response was that they were too busy.

So far you could be the same person.

So, let me ask, as inquiring minds want to know, what is the going rate, say, in posts per hour, for paid Democrat Internet fora spam workers? In round numbers, per hour?

More likely methane! She's got a LOT of that!

Clearly you H**E Trump. He doesn't need this job. He is giving up a LOT just to help the country. Still, you H**E him.

You are being paid by Soros? You are buddies with El Chapo? You make money off s***e labor? You make money importing cheap goods made by s***e labor in other countries? You are a Russian agent?

None of those?

Okay, what do you have against Trump?

Let us know, your top three, WITH credible, objective, detailed references to solid data?

I'm for Trump, but I don't want to be wrong. So if there is something wrong, I WANT to know.

So far there are LOTS of people -- Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Fauxcahontas, the NYT, CNN, MSNBC -- who REALLY h**e Trump, but, still, so far the worst they have against him that has any credibility at all is just that at some state dinner he had an extra scoop of ice cream. Since that is the worst those diligent, intrepid h**ers have found, they have in effect given Trump a unique, world class clean bill of health.

What do you have on Trump, e.g., other than smears, insults, rumors, gossip, deliberate lies, made up nonsense, f**e news, and your cartoon?

So far all you have is your insulting cartoon. You also have something for serious adults? Let us all know. We will be waiting for your heavy evidence.

The whole Mueller thingy was unethical, illegal, vicious Democrat partisans in the DOJ and FBI in collusion and a conspiracy out to cancel the Trump victory and drive him out of office. That includes Comey, Rosenstein, Mueller, Weisman, and all the dozen or so lawyers and Hillary campaign contributors working for Mueller. Muller's appointment letter by Rosenstein was at least improper and likely illegal. Mueller has gone past his too wide authority even in his letter. Also part of the s**m were several others in the DOJ/FBI and all partisan Democrats out to undo the e******n. They were all working for Obama and Hillary, egged on by the ex-CIA guy Brennan and on behalf of Hillary. They all believed that Hillary would win, all made big bets on Hillary, all got on the Hillary team of a c**p of the Federal government, and all believed that when Hillary won they would all be well rewarded and safe from their conspiracy. They cooked up the Dossier and used it in lies to the FISA court. They really did collude with the Russians. They gave Hillary a "7th floor special" for her national security violations with her e-mail setup and usage.

It was nothing less than an attempted c**p.

All of that has been very clear and solid in the news for months.

Are you starting to understand now?

You just woke up from a 4 year nap? You've been to Mars and back?

I'm well educated but no lawyer, but your review covers much of the legal situation as I understand it.

Trump has stated that he is, IIRC, "hands off" on everything having to do with Mueller. As I understand the legal and usual situation, Trump is fully within his rights just to tell his Attorney General (AG) just to FIRE Rosenstein, Muller, and everyone in the DOJ involved in any way. But my guess is that T***p w*n't even mention Mueller or even Rosenstein to any AG or candidate AG. Else the anti-Trump media would go 24 x 7 as long as Trump was in office screaming some made up violation of made up laws, rules, policies, procedures, traditions, norms, or wh**ever the media could turn into headlines and get eyeballs -- ANYTHING. All the law school deans, all the SCOTUS could swear on a stack of bibles and law books a mile high that Trump did NOTHING wrong, but the case before the public would take more time and effort than WWII and still have the NYT screaming "Impeachment! Treason! Jail!".

So, Trump has a much better idea: Just let the Mueller witch hunt continue on. Then each month and each step Mueller takes, e.g., squeezing everyone Trump has known, or people who have known people who have known people who have known Trump, for the past 20 years, threatening to ruin their lives and their families, getting them to 'compose' and 'sing', will show everyone just that much more clearly that the whole Mueller effort is just, just as Trump has said consistently for years now, a "witch hunt". The result stands to get Trump a few million more v**es in 2020.

Then after the whole Mueller nonsense is over, from action by an AG or wh**ever, the country will be ready for some strong, new rules and laws stopping such witch hunts and much more of the dirty stuff at the top of the FBI and DOJ. Maybe everyone Mueller has hurt will get a few $million in compensation. Maybe Mueller and Rosenstein can be put in JAIL for long terms with their dance cards full everyday.

Apparently the DOJ and FBI have long been wide open to a lot of really dirty, even highly illegal, stuff with next to nothing in "checks and balances". We were supposed just to "trust" them. Well, it's too easy for lawyers to conclude, e.g., from the actual practice of our 'adversarial system of justice', that anything they can get away with is sufficiently legal, justified, ethical, etc.; the rest of the v**ers very much reject this attitude and its sometimes severe, wildly 'unjust' consequences. The first casualty in a legal case is the t***h. NFL football and NBA basketball have referees that are MUCH more effective than what the DOJ and FBI have now; the DOJ and FBI need much more than just sports referees.

In the end, Rosenstein and Mueller will look like dirty dogs and lose, and Trump will look like a knight in shining armor and win. It's a victory that has been long needed, e.g., back at least to J. E. Hoover and his dictatorial, Mafia like blackmail of much of the rest of our government.

There is a lot of stink and rot in DC. Trump can't take on all of it all at once but has to choose his battles. But to win against Rosenstein and Mueller is relatively easy for Trump: Just let them continue and, then, lose and suffer from their own failures.

It's a BAD situation. Again, once again, over again, yet again, one more time, this time just for you, in the balance of the situation, you don't count; I don't count; lawyers don't count; the governments don't count; no one counts but the mother. It's overwhelmingly "her business" and not even 1% as much
the business of anyone or everyone else.

If she is made to have the baby, then there is a big chance that she will use the old solution for an unwanted baby -- a back alley dumpster.

Another of the old solutions was to leave the baby in a basket at the side door of a convent, but no doubt that no longer works very well.

In a lot of reasonably good families, the solution was to have the mother's parents raise the baby, but we're not always talking a "reasonably good family" here, are we?

It's bad, sad, really bad, but the decision is HERS. Laws, lawyers, and governments can NOT make the situation better.

But if you want to save the situation, offer her, say, $75,000 a year plus inflation for, say, 22 years, say, in the form of an annuity, plus $50,000 a year for college, corrected for inflation, out of YOUR pocket. And right away for a start get her a nice apartment or house, furnishings, a nice SUV grocery getter, a car seat, diaper service, crib, play pen, stroller, toys, clothes, shoes, hat, coat, gloves, nurses and house keepers if she gets sick, good Ob/Gyn, pediatrician, dentist, other needed medical care, $20,000 in a starter bank account, etc.

Likely get her good professional help in how to be a good mother.

Help her pay for pre-school and kindergarten.

In case of a male baby, likely you will have to be really good as a Big Brother (since you obviously know so little about babies, I have to assume you are a man) to help the boy grow up as a good man; that might take you only 20 quality hours a week for the next, say, 30 years.

Since nearly all of education, especially K-12, is in effect heavily from the family, e.g., the classic J. Dewey, 'Democracy and Education,' likely her child will need a LOT of special education and tutoring to keep up and do well in school. E.g., the mother may not be able to read or write and may have poor or no command of English -- you'd have to make up for that, too.

The mother may need driving lessons, the basics of cooking, shopping, cleaning, and hygiene, civics, laws, e-mail usage, how to care for a pet, etc.

By the way, the apartment/house needs to be in a good school district.

In addition to all that, she may need a LOT of medical care, including mental health, for herself, to be able to be a decent mother -- if she is on alcohol or drugs, has an STD, has a mean boyfriend, is illiterate, is morbidly obese, etc.

And the mother may have had poor or no prenatal care. The baby may be addicted to drugs or already seriously damaged from drugs. Does the mother have AIDS? Hmm.

Starting to get the picture? Dev**e much of your life for the next 22+ years and turn the situation around.

Right, let's see, the $75,000 a year for just 10 years would be $750,000. For 20 years, $1,500,000. Plus the the rest. So, net present value would take a big chunk out of $3 million, maybe more. Of course, you DO actually have the $3+ million ready, don't you?

Or put the baby up for adoption -- let's not go into that likely disaster. Or, likely we're NOT talking some gorgeous, astoundingly healthy, natural blond in Minnesota, 16, cheerleader, bright, good student, who, with the captain of the football team, made a mistake some Saturday night, who could sell the baby for $100,000+ right away -- starting to get the picture?

You have some more fast, simple, easy solutions for some more of the worst US "social problems"?

Uh, while you are passing laws outlawing a******ns, why not pass some laws just outlawing poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism, stupidity, illiteracy, dysfunctional behavior, STDs, etc.? Just pass laws outlawing all the ills of society?

Uh, you didn't just arrive on earth and start to understand reality just yesterday, did you?

Sit down for this one, a big reality check: Social problems are SUPER tough to solve. Bluntly, without doubt, far and away the most effective social worker for solving social problems is -- and may I have the envelope, please? Drum roll, please. And you ARE sitting down for this, right? "Rip". And the answer is, trumpet fanfare, please -- C. Darwin. If you can do better, we will all be thrilled. You seem eager to solve the problem. Go for it. Good luck.

Except for entertainment on vacations, cases of tourism of beautiful lakes, Manhattan, and DC, passenger trains don't work in the US. And the Metro Rail for Manhattan loses money and gets a subsidy from people who get car license plates, even if they never ride the Metro Rail.

Amtrak loses big bucks.

I doubt that the DC system pays its own way.

There is an old law about cost/benefit analysis. When Baltimore had their subway completed, people did some arithmetic and found that tickets would not be enough to pay even for the daily direct operating costs and that with cost/benefit analysis the "optimal" decision was just to brick up the openings and f'get about the thing.

Wasting money, net, on average, makes everyone less rich -- BUMMER. And for the US, passenger trains WASTE MONEY.

The US HAD a quite comprehensive passenger train system, with stations in, and track to, nearly every tiny crossroads in the whole US. Could walk to the train station in Podunk and ride trains all the way to Claypool. Still the Model T k**led off nearly the whole thing, and the airlines k**led off the rest.

Problems:

(1) Except for the largest origin/destination pairs, spend too much time waiting on making connections. This is especially bad from small towns. For t***sportation in the sparsely populated rural areas, a Model T totally blows the doors off passenger trains.

(2) Trains are HEAVY. For light loads, have to stop all that weight, take on a few people who weigh a tiny fraction of that weight, and get that weight rolling again. All that starting and stopping is too slow and too expensive.

(3) I live 70 miles north of Wall Street and for a while was working on Wall Street and commuting home. I found that even during rush hours, I could beat the trains on time. Each day parking in Manhattan cost less than the two train tickets would have.

(4) Wh**ever short-medium passenger trains can do, buses can do better. But now the buses are not super healthy.

Another point is what want to carry along, luggage, brief case, maybe a few boxes. For a car, easy. For trains, a BIG hassle and now even worse due to the TSA. For any trip of a few hours, say, 400 miles one way, I prefer just my personal car: When I get there, I still have my car and don't need to use taxis or to rent a car. There is no hassle with the TSA or luggage, boxes, etc.

Since Amtrak loses money in the US North-East corridor, NO WAY can passenger trains break even in the US. Not a chance.

But to AOC, none of this rationality means anything. Instead, AOC is in the tribe of people who want MO GUMMENT MA! They just want more government and so that there can be more government, power, money, etc. With that power, get still more government. Dream of The C*******t Manifesto.

Then AOC wants attention. Her buddies in the media commonly also want The C*******t Manifesto but at least want AOC as click bait.

It won't work: Enough Democrats see that AOC will be one of the best players on the team of Trump and the Republicans for 2020 and will let her be a passing fad, soon yesterday's news.

Right. You are 100% right.

Every couple who wants a child MUST realize that there is a chance the fetus will be severely deformed, not healthy, not viable, etc. It's just a fact of life, one of life's risks.

You have NOTHING to feel guilty about.

Likely you can try again, and very likely your next effort will be successful.

You clearly will be a terrific mother.

Early in the 2016 campaign, IIRC some Republican leader asked that the Republicans just never talk about a******n. One big reason is that Roe v Wade has been the law of the land for 40+ years, and the SCOTUS is VERY unlikely to consider a change.

Another reason is that a******n should be the issue and responsibility of the mother and maybe the father, family, physicians, a religious leader but definitely NOT the government. In the balance of concerns, what other people think is just IRRELEVANT and none of their darned business.

Some cases of a******n are ugly parts of our country, culture, civilization, etc., but the overwhelming consideration is what the MOTHER wants. If for wh**ever reason she does not want the baby, then she should not be forced to have the baby. In particular, it's not good for a baby to have a mother that didn't or doesn't want, or can't take care of, the baby. Yes, some such cases are ugly, but on the balance of issues and concern, "there are two admittedly regrettable but nevertheless clearly distinguishable alternatives: On the one hand, we have a dead baby. On the other hand we have a baby its mother didn't want." For picking between these two, there are no good alternatives, and laws can't change that. Net, the rest of society should just stay the heck OUT.

Is one of the alternatives a version of murder? Maybe some people would say so. Does having the baby die cheapen life? Yes. Is the dead baby a tragedy? Yes. Does getting politicians and lawyers into the picture help? NO!

Lots of things our society does cheapen life. For something better, do more to help the mother some years before she got pregnant. In general we need a more prosperous and humane society. E.g., for Bush 43 and Obama to send thousands of lives of US blood and 7 trillion US dollars to just absurd wars in Iraq and Afghanistan took money from the pockets of all US families and pushed lots of women over the line from being a good mother to being financially unable to be a good mother.

But, politicians, including Republican ones, now including Trump, are talking about a******n. Maybe the v**e arithmetic calls for that. But it's ugly politics if only because Roe v Wade is less likely to fall than Mount Everest. The whole subject is silly and ugly because NOTHING will change.

In particular, we are NOT talking about FORCING a women to have an a******n -- no one in the US is doing that. Not so long ago, China did a LOT of that.

Some of the pipelines will carry Dakota shale oil to refineries farther south but still in the US.

I can't believe that the FBI had a search warrant, at least not a proper one. So, they had no right in your house or to inspect anything or take anything. A good judge should throw out the case immediately. Roger should be able to sue the Federal Government for big bucks.

Much of this stuff will stop only when enough US v**ers v**e out the Democrats.

I saw video clips of some of his testimony, but likely the newsies didn't show all the testimony.

From what I saw, it seemed to me that his responses and behavior were fine. It also seemed that all the Democrats I saw were trying to be as nasty to him as possible.

From the video I saw, it appeared that all the Democrats had agreed to end each question with a demand that he answer "Yes or no". That demand is not appropriate: For a question about a privileged conversation with someone, e.g., Trump, "yes or no" cannot be an appropriate answer.

I don't want to be wrong, so if you have some specific questions he refused to answer, hopefully with a transcript or video link, I will be eager to pay attention.

Else you have just an unsubstantiated accusation which usually in not productive and otherwise rude.