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Sep 30, 2015 01:38:05   #
Zemirah wrote:
Is your forty-decade experience which you reference actually personal?

You do know that's 400 years?

- and I had you pegged as just a youngun.


Lol, slight miscalculation. Four decades.
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Sep 30, 2015 01:34:38   #
iFrank wrote:
That's why God hated Esau because he hated his heritage, our "standard" the American flag is our heritage like in "One Nation Under God". I'm a Christian and I have a Christian flag and many U.S flags, one that was flown in a forward operating base in a hostile country. It's not above God, but God loves patriotism, and he wants the citizens of heaven to be loyal. Not like in the first earth age, where God found non-conformists and made this second age on earth (flesh). The spirit body was in the first age. The third age is when Christ comes back and In a twinkling of an eye we will be changed in to a spirit body, some that will be incorruptible (saved) and the others corruptible (liable to die).
That's why God hated Esau because he hated his her... (show quote)


Our heritage comes from and is found in the kingdom of God and nowhere else.

God abhors patriotism to any earthly realm; it is enmity with God.
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Sep 30, 2015 01:09:05   #
Zemirah wrote:
The verses of the Bible that describe the Rapture were written in the first century A.D. by the Apostles of Jesus, between 53 A.D. and 96 A.D.

Why would you be trying to learn about the first century Bible from an 18th century author?

The English word rapture does not appear in any of the current English translations of the Bible. If you are wondering where the English term originates from, it is an Old English word that was used in literature (including some Charles Dickens novels) that refers to being carried away. Christians have adapted it in the modern vernacular to refer to the event described in scripture where Jesus returns to the cloud level and pulls his church out of the earth. Those Christians who have already died and gone to Heaven appear to get their new glorified bodies at that time, along with those who are raptured.

Those asking this question usually fall into two categories. Either you are genuinely wondering about the word being found in scripture somewhere, or you are an anti-rapture person attempting to support your viewpoint because you already think that you know the answer. Hopefully I have already answered the former group, and God bless you. If you belong to the latter group and your mind is not closed to receiving information (that is, you are actually interested in the truth) read on.

Yes, the word rapture is found in the Bible. Keep in mind the scriptures were not originally written in English. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, and the New Testament was written in Greek. If you have ever studied a foreign language then you already know that some words cannot be accurately translated. A great example is the word love, used many times in the New Testament, but having at least three different meanings. This is because there is no accurate translation to English for the three different Greek words that have all been translated as love in the New Testament.

For example, if you love dark chocolate, you would Philia dark chocolate in the Greek. You Agape your family and close friends. You Eros your wife after a romantic dinner at bedtime, but of course you also Agape her. If you ever go to Bible college you will spend considerable time studying Greek and Hebrew and will begin to understand that a “word being in the English Bible” or not isn’t grounds for any kind of intelligent debate.

Along these lines I can argue that the word rapture is indeed in the Bible and can be found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 when Paul described believers being caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. The Greek word translated as caught up is harpazo, which translates just as accurately to taken away (or being carried away as Dickens used it in the old English). None of the English translations (so far) have chosen to use the word rapture in translation – but no Greek scholar who understands English vernacular is likely to object if somebody does.

Is this really important? Yes and no. If Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, and you truly love the Lord, you are going up in the rapture whether you believe in it or not. On the other hand if you are not quite sure what you believe in, then maybe you will get left behind and be forced into a serious decision for Christ. That is up to the Lord.

There are 53 Bible Verses about The Rapture.

What do the fifty three (53) Bible verses say about the rapture?



1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Luke 17:34-37

I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.” And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Revelation 3:10

Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

Mark 13:32

“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matthew 24:29-31

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Daniel 12:1-2

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Corinthians 15:52

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 10:9

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Revelation 20:2-5

And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

Luke 17:34

I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.

Matthew 24:31

And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-7

Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Luke 12:40

You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

Matthew 24:42

Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
1 Thessalonians 5:2

For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Matthew 24:27


For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Mark 13:32-37

“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake. Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.

Mark 14:62

And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

John 17:15

I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

Revelation 11:15-19

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign. The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

1 Thessalonians 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Matthew 24:40

Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.

Matthew 24:1-51

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. ...

Daniel 12:7

And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.


Matthew 24:36

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

Matthew 24:22

And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Matthew 13:30

Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Luke 21:36

But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Mark 13:24-27


“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

1 Thessalonians 5:3

While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Matthew 13:39

And the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels.

Luke 21:16

You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death.
Zephaniah 2:1-3

Gather together, yes, gather, O shameless nation, before the decree takes effect —before the day passes away like chaff— before there comes upon you the burning anger of the Lord, before there comes upon you the day of the anger of the Lord. Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land, who do his just commands; seek righteousness; seek humility; perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the anger of the Lord.

Matthew 24:30

Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 17:8

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

Revelation 7:3

Saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

Revelation 12:14

But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

Hebrews 9:28

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

John 14:2

In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
Matthew 26:64

Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Revelation 14:14-16

Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

James 5:14-15

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Matthew 24:21

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

Revelation 10:1

Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire.

Romans 2:2-3

We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Daniel 12:1

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

2 Timothy 4:1-5

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.


2 Timothy 3:1-9

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. ...
The verses of the Bible that describe the Rapture ... (show quote)


"The verses of the Bible that describe the Rapture were written in the first century A.D. by the Apostles of Jesus, between 53 A.D. and 96 A.D.

Why would you be trying to learn about the first century Bible from an 18th century author?" Huh? I said Christians have taken the word of an 18th Century author, not me. How could you possibly be that confused?

Please read http://www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Rapture.html
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Sep 30, 2015 01:04:33   #
iFrank wrote:
Catholic or any other religion when they lie, by definition is a hypocrite, I didn't coin the definition.


No need for us to converse further; you have shown yourself.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:22:49   #
iFrank wrote:
First of all you're a male, are you not? You cannot abort a child, on the female has the last word on whether its yea or nay. Or are you a tranny. There you go again name calling just like a liberal. As for the post on abortions its in general, not specifically targeted at you.


Let me try to get this straight. You claim that as I am a male I cannot abort a child? As head of the household in spiritual matters, if I agree with my wife to have an abortion, or tell her to have an abortion, or force her to have an abortion, or act in a way to make an abortion, I am not at all implicated by being a male because she has "the final word"?

"Or are you a tranny?" You are one very sick and angry person, it appears.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:04:59   #
iFrank wrote:
Oh my, am I insulting you, got to sleep now. You're to tired to reply to Blade Runner, you said it was late but here you are. Are you lying.


Why do I think it is possible to have a reasonable conversation with the likes of you? My only answer is that I am a hopeless masochist.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:01:35   #
iFrank wrote:
First of all you're a male, are you not? You cannot abort a child, on the female has the last word on whether its yea or nay. Or are you a tranny. There you go again name calling just like a liberal. As for the post on abortions its in general, not specifically targeted at you.


In every response by you to me, you have insulted me, ergo, you must be a liberal. I did not insult you; I warned you of resorting to insult over argument: 'Prattling on with ad hominem makes you look like an ignorant and vindictive ass.'
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Sep 29, 2015 03:56:11   #
iFrank wrote:
Mind your own business as I was conversing with fiatlux. She understood.


Too funny. Respond to me all this time and now it is none of my business? It is an open forum. As a member of this open forum, this discussion is MY business. Sorry.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:53:00   #
Doc110 wrote:
Everything you say is conjecture and supposition.

But what did you actually say

1. Are you sure the story of Jesus is original??
2. http://framingbusiness.net/archives/232
3. 46 reason it may not be.

In all actually you didn't say a thing, you only pointed to your Secular Atheistic h**eful anti-Christian belief philosophy.

Everything you say is conjecture and supposition against Dod, Christian religious institution and individuals of faith, and spiritual beliefs.

But what did you actually say: Only anti-Christian vile-conjecture and supposition.

Your, a Joke . . . . . Love your total idiocy and secular rhetoric, pure stupidity on tour lack of intelligence to be continuing this yellow brick road athiestic fantasy of yours.

The Last athiestic fantasy of yours brought out a few fanatical crazies.
Like interestedparty http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-50985-3.html

Good Job, and you have the morality to justify just what ?

SamDawkins, And your still a pompous fool, with less than credible "Got-ya" headlines,and secular atheist shock extremist just trying to push the boundaries.

A flash in the pan.
Everything you say is conjecture and supposition. ... (show quote)


No, not a flash in the pan, points needed to be seriously addressed.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:50:03   #
iFrank wrote:
Go read your past posts and also study your Bible. Why should I be specific for my word to fall on deaf ears.


Way too funny. Or, "Sorry, I have no specifics and like being a horse's ass in saying find what I object to what you said by you reading your own posts. Huh? If you are not specific, your word cannot help but fall on deaf ears for all you have done is be insulting. Why do you object to being specific instead of just generally insulting? If you were a Bible instructor on a Wednesday night, would you use chapter and verse to cover a topic or say to the class, "Listen, apostates, study your Bible or you are damned."
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Sep 29, 2015 03:41:02   #
iFrank wrote:
The mysteries of the Bible are to be Rightly divided "the Word of truth", you have no understanding to bridge the topic of killing your offspring or aborting them. Your an apostate, a scoffer. In the end times people like you will be born into this world. The last shall be first, and the first shall be last.


I have not killed or aborted my offspring. Again you stoop to insult without any specific rebuttals. If you are a man of the Word, use it! Show me where I am wrong. Prattling on with ad hominem makes you look like an ignorant and vindictive ass.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:36:35   #
Blade_Runner wrote:
No, they didn't see "Christian rule as the biggest threat" to our Republic. Nor were there "thousands of Christian sects" in the colonies. There were three dominant faiths then--Episcopalian/Anglican, Presbyterian, and Congregationalist. These made up almost 90% of the Religious faiths. The rest were a sprinkling of Quakers, Dutch and German Reformed, Lutheran, Catholics, Huguenots, Unitarians, Methodists, and Calvinists.

What our Founders didn't want was the government involved in church affairs and vice versa. However, they based our founding documents, both the DoI and the Constitution, on the moral principles of Judeo-Christianity. Our Constitution reflects those principles, it does not preach them.

Again, your knowledge of European history, particularly with regard to religion, is sorely lacking. You seem totally confused about what was going on over there.
No, they didn't see "Christian rule as the bi... (show quote)


Okay, it is late I have not bothered to provide sources because you have not been specific. Tomorrow, I will supply sources for what I said, which in my forty-decade experience will mean, you will dismiss them out of hand as revisionist liberal sites not worthy of your consideration, despite their being of a conservative bent with excellent credentials.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:29:52   #
The Eastsider Christians were certain that Jesus was born in a lowly structure, presumably a barn or manger, on the Eastside of Main Street in the town of Bethlehem. The Westsider Christians thought just the opposite. Over the years of this righteous and fierce conflict, both groups were continually wracked with strife, nailing down the exact address splintering both into over a thousand sects each. Then there was the important matter of how many beasts and of what species, if there were any such dirty creatures in attendance, were there at his birth. The sects grew into the tens of thousands. Then the color of the building became an issue: surely, insisted some, it must have been painted white, for his purity. Other groups sprung up saying it must have been painted gold for his majesty. Still others insisted blue for his heavenly home. The various sects were now numbered in the hundreds of thousands. And it got more complex. How many magi? What gifts, and in what specific amount? What country were they from? Was it a star or comet they followed? Did they arrive on camels, horses, or donkeys? How many shepherds? And so on and on and on and on it went.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:07:18   #
iFrank wrote:
Wow you are something else, seriously a stiffnecked person. Go ahead and post for your poems of sweet nothings from others like you, you are not a Christian,...


Such comments are pure vanity and useless. If you object to something, state what it is and how you see it. Insulting me makes you look bad. Get specific or this is exchange is nonsense, your clanging cymbal.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:03:58   #
iFrank wrote:
I was reading you other post and you just start a post and then leave it for other to finish your job. You said you were catholic, an apostate I have to say. You're twice dead. By their fruits you shall know them. And you've shown that when the going gets tough you start spewing trash.


When you want to criticize someone it is imperative that you give examples of their fault and show a correction, or how the question may have been better addressed. Just mocking their response without corrective advice is weak-minded and useless. Where did I say I was Catholic? What trash did I start spewing?

Be specific. It is not that difficult. Object to what I say, fine, but let me know who, what, when, where, and how...or how else can we have a reasonable dialogue? What you said to me is just idle gossip and mean-spirited without specifics.
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