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Is abortion really against God's law?
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Apr 24, 2014 11:28:27   #
cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob
 
Brian Devon wrote:
******
I am Jewish. I am liberal on most things, with abortion being a major exception. I am a little familiar with Jewish law but am hardly an expert on Halachah. I do know this. Prior to Roe V. Wade, most Jews I knew (mostly reform, or secular) were none too comfortable discussing abortion. When it was mentioned, it was usually in hushed tones, with a deep sense of shame attached to the subject.

My knowledge of Halacha is that abortion is not OK after "quickening", somewhere around day 40 of gestation.

The reality is that up until recently humans did not readily have access to the means of abortion so this subject was hardly part and parcel of every day life.

I am vehemently opposed to abortion for convenience. I reluctantly accept it for rape, profound brain deformities, and incest. I also accept it to save the life of the mother.

My revulsion of abortion is based on graphic photos I have seen of dismembered bloody fetuses. My negativity is not based on U.S. court rulings nor Jewish law.

Photographs are not propaganda. They bear witness to the truth. Abortion photos should be taken with the seriousness that photos of the holocaust should be taken. These images are not manufactured to manipulate people's emotions. They are the violent and bitter truth.

There are many Supreme Court decisions that I would like to see repealed. One is "Citizens United" which ruled that corporate campaign contributions equal free speech.

I would also like to see the repeal of the 19th century court ruling that ruled that corporations have personhood and the same rights as an individual.

Lastly, I would like to see the overturning of Roe V. Wade, and the banning of abortion for the sake of convenience.

I am a former social worker who did adoption placement in a Catholic Agency. It is a destructive lie that women only have the option of a clean and safe abortion or a dirty back alley abortion, likely to cause infection and possibly death.

Adoption is certainly a viable and desirable option. Adoption is a win-win-win situation. The child gets to live, the mother is not left with guilt and shame, nor forced to raise a child she can't raise and as a major bonus it provides infertile couples the opportunity to enjoy the joys and fulfillment of being parents.
****** br I am Jewish. I am liberal on most things... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: The one thing we are in agreement on. Being adopted I see know other means.... So I am not very partial in this discussion.

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Apr 24, 2014 15:17:39   #
bob siddell jr
 
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and advised candidates to dance around abortion because the majority supported choice. The next night, I was awakened about 2AM by an appx 8ft man wearing a Roman soldiers uniform with a round shield on his chest but no sword or wings who said: "I am Michael. You pride yourself on never having killed anyone but I have just come from the Throne of God to tell you that you killed your own daughter!" He looked to his right and a girl about 12 who looked like my son stepped into view and said: "I love you daddy" and both disappeared. I fell out of bed and cried for about half an hour. I remembered my wife wanted got an IUD about 12 years earlier because she said we can't afford another child and I said OK. Months later she was wailing in the bathroom and there was blood in the toilet. I tried to console her saying we can have a child later and she cried you don't understand. Now I do: embryos are people to Him, abortion is murder, and even consent is guilt.

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Apr 24, 2014 15:49:28   #
cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob
 
bob siddell jr wrote:
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and advised candidates to dance around abortion because the majority supported choice. The next night, I was awakened about 2AM by an appx 8ft man wearing a Roman soldiers uniform with a round shield on his chest but no sword or wings who said: "I am Michael. You pride yourself on never having killed anyone but I have just come from the Throne of God to tell you that you killed your own daughter!" He looked to his right and a girl about 12 who looked like my son stepped into view and said: "I love you daddy" and both disappeared. I fell out of bed and cried for about half an hour. I remembered my wife wanted got an IUD about 12 years earlier because she said we can't afford another child and I said OK. Months later she was wailing in the bathroom and there was blood in the toilet. I tried to console her saying we can have a child later and she cried you don't understand. Now I do: embryos are people to Him, abortion is murder, and even consent is guilt.
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and a... (show quote)

Wow¡!! What a powerful first post! Welcome to opp! I am looking forward to posts like that. You knocked it out a the park. Thanks for sharing such an intimate message. And keep em coming
:thumbup:

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Apr 24, 2014 16:27:12   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
bob siddell jr wrote:
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and advised candidates to dance around abortion because the majority supported choice. The next night, I was awakened about 2AM by an appx 8ft man wearing a Roman soldiers uniform with a round shield on his chest but no sword or wings who said: "I am Michael. You pride yourself on never having killed anyone but I have just come from the Throne of God to tell you that you killed your own daughter!" He looked to his right and a girl about 12 who looked like my son stepped into view and said: "I love you daddy" and both disappeared. I fell out of bed and cried for about half an hour. I remembered my wife wanted got an IUD about 12 years earlier because she said we can't afford another child and I said OK. Months later she was wailing in the bathroom and there was blood in the toilet. I tried to console her saying we can have a child later and she cried you don't understand. Now I do: embryos are people to Him, abortion is murder, and even consent is guilt.
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and a... (show quote)


1 Tim. 1:12-17 Welcome. Brace yourself :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Apr 24, 2014 20:11:10   #
dbleach3
 
Ricktloml wrote:
Please, you are pro choice but not pro abortion?! what exactly do you think the choice is, if you are pro choice you ARE pro abortion, that particular euphemism is just an attempt to hide what that particular choice entails


My choice, in most cases, is for the baby. A great presidential candidate said many years ago during a debate about this subject, and I paraphrase, "But nobody ever asks the baby."

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Apr 24, 2014 21:50:01   #
alabuck Loc: Tennessee
 
Caboose wrote:
Are you Judgeing GOD?


Not in the least. I'm simply trying to invoke more discussion. I find all of this interesting.

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Apr 24, 2014 21:58:47   #
alabuck Loc: Tennessee
 
bob siddell jr wrote:
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and advised candidates to dance around abortion because the majority supported choice. The next night, I was awakened about 2AM by an appx 8ft man wearing a Roman soldiers uniform with a round shield on his chest but no sword or wings who said: "I am Michael. You pride yourself on never having killed anyone but I have just come from the Throne of God to tell you that you killed your own daughter!" He looked to his right and a girl about 12 who looked like my son stepped into view and said: "I love you daddy" and both disappeared. I fell out of bed and cried for about half an hour. I remembered my wife wanted got an IUD about 12 years earlier because she said we can't afford another child and I said OK. Months later she was wailing in the bathroom and there was blood in the toilet. I tried to console her saying we can have a child later and she cried you don't understand. Now I do: embryos are people to Him, abortion is murder, and even consent is guilt.
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and a... (show quote)



With such a story as the one you posted, I must wonder why I can't verify it from anywhere on the Internet.

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Apr 24, 2014 23:58:36   #
Blacksheep
 
alabuck wrote:
I found this website and thought its reasoning on abortion and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?

---------------------------------

I deleted the excessive verbiage.

There is no "God's Law", there is only Man's law. God doesn't have a voice, doesn't talk to people, doesn't write anything down and no one speaks for God.

The Bible is a collection of letters and short stories that was put together by a conclave of priests, who approved some, disapproved others, until they all agreed on the ones that had the least contradictions between them and that supported the ideas that the priests wanted people to believe.

There's a whole bunch more of those letters and stories that were declared to be apocryphal because they conflict with the ones the priests chose, in one way or another.

All of them, apocryphal or not, were written by men, not by God or at the direction or instruction of God. Not even inspired by God.

To think otherwise is to believe in black cats, walking under ladders, spooks, fairies, elves, evil spirits and things that go bump in the night, and since most of us secretly do, not really being all that far removed from the days of living in caves, we're easy prey for the priests.

To sum up: NO. Abortion is an issue of conscience, and that's why people fight over it. Do women have the right to end their pregnancies, or are men their masters and have the right to deny them control of this aspect of their being? That's what this is about. God has nothing to do with it.

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Apr 25, 2014 00:02:12   #
Blacksheep
 
bob siddell jr wrote:
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and advised candidates to dance around abortion because the majority supported choice. The next night, I was awakened about 2AM by an appx 8ft man wearing a Roman soldiers uniform with a round shield on his chest but no sword or wings who said: "I am Michael. You pride yourself on never having killed anyone but I have just come from the Throne of God to tell you that you killed your own daughter!" He looked to his right and a girl about 12 who looked like my son stepped into view and said: "I love you daddy" and both disappeared. I fell out of bed and cried for about half an hour. I remembered my wife wanted got an IUD about 12 years earlier because she said we can't afford another child and I said OK. Months later she was wailing in the bathroom and there was blood in the toilet. I tried to console her saying we can have a child later and she cried you don't understand. Now I do: embryos are people to Him, abortion is murder, and even consent is guilt.
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and a... (show quote)


That's the sickest pile of crap anyone's ever posted on OPP. Shame on you!

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Apr 25, 2014 00:35:13   #
dennisimoto Loc: Washington State (West)
 
Blacksheep wrote:
That's the sickest pile of crap anyone's ever posted on OPP. Shame on you!


Oh come on B.S. You've seen sicker stuff than that on here. I have and I haven't been coming here anywhere near as long as you have. The guy shared a real life experience, for him at least, and it definitely follows the line of the discussion.

It's interesting to note that all the people making decisions about abortion are already born.

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Apr 25, 2014 00:52:00   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
dennisimoto wrote:
Oh come on B.S. You've seen sicker stuff than that on here. I have and I haven't been coming here anywhere near as long as you have. The guy shared a real life experience, for him at least, and it definitely follows the line of the discussion.

It's interesting to note that all the people making decisions about abortion are already born.


dennisimoto: It's interesting to note that all the people making decisions about abortion are already born.

And how, exactly, would you reverse or improve on that ?

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Apr 25, 2014 00:55:17   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Blacksheep wrote:
That's the sickest pile of crap anyone's ever posted on OPP. Shame on you!


Blacksheep, your post is beyond sick and beyond shame. Congratulations.

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Apr 25, 2014 00:59:50   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Blacksheep wrote:
---------------------------------

I deleted the excessive verbiage.

There is no "God's Law", there is only Man's law. God doesn't have a voice, doesn't talk to people, doesn't write anything down and no one speaks for God.

The Bible is a collection of letters and short stories that was put together by a conclave of priests, who approved some, disapproved others, until they all agreed on the ones that had the least contradictions between them and that supported the ideas that the priests wanted people to believe.

There's a whole bunch more of those letters and stories that were declared to be apocryphal because they conflict with the ones the priests chose, in one way or another.

All of them, apocryphal or not, were written by men, not by God or at the direction or instruction of God. Not even inspired by God.

To think otherwise is to believe in black cats, walking under ladders, spooks, fairies, elves, evil spirits and things that go bump in the night, and since most of us secretly do, not really being all that far removed from the days of living in caves, we're easy prey for the priests.

To sum up: NO. Abortion is an issue of conscience, and that's why people fight over it. Do women have the right to end their pregnancies, or are men their masters and have the right to deny them control of this aspect of their being? That's what this is about. God has nothing to do with it.
--------------------------------- br br I deleted... (show quote)


You're entitled to your own opinion. You're wrong, of course.

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Apr 25, 2014 01:03:46   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
alabuck wrote:
With such a story as the one you posted, I must wonder why I can't verify it from anywhere on the Internet.


alabuck, if you shared a personal family story that had occurred in your home 12 years ago, with this forum, would you expect to find it "on the internet?"

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Apr 25, 2014 01:08:44   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
bob siddell jr wrote:
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and advised candidates to dance around abortion because the majority supported choice. The next night, I was awakened about 2AM by an appx 8ft man wearing a Roman soldiers uniform with a round shield on his chest but no sword or wings who said: "I am Michael. You pride yourself on never having killed anyone but I have just come from the Throne of God to tell you that you killed your own daughter!" He looked to his right and a girl about 12 who looked like my son stepped into view and said: "I love you daddy" and both disappeared. I fell out of bed and cried for about half an hour. I remembered my wife wanted got an IUD about 12 years earlier because she said we can't afford another child and I said OK. Months later she was wailing in the bathroom and there was blood in the toilet. I tried to console her saying we can have a child later and she cried you don't understand. Now I do: embryos are people to Him, abortion is murder, and even consent is guilt.
About 2002, I spoke at a Republican meeting and a... (show quote)


Thank you for the telling of your experience.

Being struck with the reality of God can be life changing.

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