I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?

I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?

Intriguing post. I am pro-choice, but not pro-a******n. It is the woman's decision first, preferably with her doctor. I would hope that, if married, the woman would consult and consider her husband's feelings. Hopefully, wh**ever decision reached is mutual.

I also say you have opened Pandora's box

Perhaps I have opened the box - so to speak. But, it's a box that affects tens, if not hundreds of millions of Americans. I, too, am pro-choice, but not pro-a******n. I feel I don't have the civil or clerical authority to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body when it comes to sex and reproduction. That's between her, her conscience and God. I also don't equate birth control and contraceptives with a******n as birth control and contraceptives are, by design, used to prevent pregnancy, not terminate it.

I also don't understand how some people are so opposed to a******n, yet are also opposed to helping out poor people and their kids with social programs and educational programs. If you don't want the poor having kids, allow for governmental birth control programs or even pay for getting women's tubes tied - if the women want the procedure done to them. If you don't want to help feed and clothe and allow for medical care after the kids are born, then why balk at the first idea? None of this is the kids' fault. Why punish them?

Lastly, if the conserves are so against providing birth control measures through the ACA, then "boner pills" (CIALIS and Viagra) for men should be included on the list of unapproved drugs. Seems to me that the men should assume some responsibility in the act of procreation and its aftermath.

But, hey, those are just my opinions. I'm sure they're lots more.

I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?

I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?

Intriguing post. I am pro-choice, but not pro-a******n. It is the woman's decision first, preferably with her doctor. I would hope that, if married, the woman would consult and consider her husband's feelings. Hopefully, wh**ever decision reached is mutual.

I also say you have opened Pandora's box

Perhaps I have opened the box - so to speak. But, it's a box that affects tens, if not hundreds of millions of Americans. I, too, am pro-choice, but not pro-a******n. I feel I don't have the civil or clerical authority to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body when it comes to sex and reproduction. That's between her, her conscience and God. I also don't equate birth control and contraceptives with a******n as birth control and contraceptives are, by design, used to prevent pregnancy, not terminate it.

I also don't understand how some people are so opposed to a******n, yet are also opposed to helping out poor people and their kids with social programs and educational programs. If you don't want the poor having kids, allow for governmental birth control programs or even pay for getting women's tubes tied - if the women want the procedure done to them. If you don't want to help feed and clothe and allow for medical care after the kids are born, then why balk at the first idea? None of this is the kids' fault. Why punish them?

Lastly, if the conserves are so against providing birth control measures through the ACA, then "boner pills" (CIALIS and Viagra) for men should be included on the list of unapproved drugs. Seems to me that the men should assume some responsibility in the act of procreation and its aftermath.

But, hey, those are just my opinions. I'm sure they're lots more.

I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?