Thank you, Alabuck.

I knew it was Augustus who injected Genesis 3:1 into the topic matter. I will accept your tentative assessment of his meaning, but that seems quite a stretch...if indeed your interpretation is correct. The "quote" he made mention of does not equate to the subject matter, either...to my way of thinking. That is why I questioned the actual reference to Biblical chapter and verse. As I said, I am no scholar of the Bible, but I am fairly capable of grasping the obvious, and it was not in either Genesis 3:1 or Genesis 31.

With all due respect, I am both confused as to his Biblical reference(s)...and still looking for an answer or explanation. :oops:

According to your Halachai, or Jewish Law, God holds only financial value on the Human Fetus? Good ole Jewish Law that still doesn't believe that Jesus Christ, the Savior and Son of God has already came in the Flesh. The Jewish people still wait for their Savior to come even today, so continue to live religiously in limbo.

20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?
21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.
22 But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.
23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off. Psalm 94.


Now, how do you read this??
This is prophecy of Jesus Christ, and the 'mischief' of the evil priests manipulating his Crucifixion.
It is also referring to Exodus 20 of the Ten Commandments which your using:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that h**e me;
6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

How do you read and understand that particular Commandment? It is Old Testament, the Pentateuch. Please tell me~
The evil Jewish Priests (God calls 'fathers') claimed obeyance and loyalty to "Ceasar" only- when seeking Jesus Christ's death.
Jesus Christ is from the "4th" tribe of Judah, John the Baptist is from the "3rd tribe of Judah. Their lives and all the mischief from the Priests, and Herod's that took their lives "is a generation":

30 "A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation." Psalm 22.
Jesus Christ and John the Baptist were cousins, as 'Mary'- Jesus Mother, was 'Elizabeth'- John the Baptist Mother's Niece. From the same seed.
Scripture states that "the Virgin Mary" was a direct descendent of King David and his Son "Nathan." (Joseph was a direct descendent of King David and his Son "Solomon." The virgin Mary was a 'direct' descendent of the Holy Bloodline of Adam.
OOPS, pressed wrong key- still adding to this post.......
please wait!

I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?

I found this website and thought its reasoning on a******n and the Judaeo/Christian ethic rather interesting. So, I posted portions of it for your comments.

The legal status of a fetus, compiled from a BBC website on religion

One of the basic tenants of the pro-lifers, especially in the US, centers on the belief that the fetus is a person at conception. This tenant has its genesis (no pun intended) in an interpretation of Jewish and Christian Biblical passages which are said to prove the belief in humanity at conception and the sanctity of life.

A little background for our non-believers who've never been to church nor have ever read the Bible.

Christianity is the faith based on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God, who was sent to the world to sacrifice Himself on behalf of mankind, so that mankind, by accepting Jesus as their savior, can receive God's grace and live an eternal life after death, in Heaven, with God.

According to the Bible, although conceived by the virgin, Mary, with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is prophesized to be from the lineage of the Israelite king, David. As a child, Jesus, during a trip to Jerusalem by His parents, was found, "in His Father's house," the Temple, with the priests. Later, as a young adult, He spent a lot of time in the Temple and the local synagogue, teaching the Jewish Torah (the Law) and other religious books.

It's safe to say that Jesus was Jewish, being brought up in the Jewish religion and Jewish customs, and being the Son of the God of Israel. Jesus spends His adult life ministering to the poor and downtrodden of Israel. He healed the sick, raised some from the dead and, spoke against the collection of riches on Earth, and taught His followers to take care of the less fortunate because as He said, "wh**ever you do to the least of these, you do to Me."

To the chagrin of the Saduccees and the Pharisees, the 2 major political/religious parties in Israel, Jesus developed a following. (One must know that at this time, Israel was a theocracy, much like the Islamic theocratic states who practice Sharia Law, today.). To silence Him, the members of the 2 parties had Him arrested and turned over to the Roman ruler, Pontious Pilot, for k*****g. After a mock trial, Jesus was tortured, scourged and crucified; all in accordance with the Jewish religious prophecies in the Torah that Jesus' tormentors failed to note.

After Jesus died, rose from the dead, met with His disciples and 500 other people, t***sfigured and assented into Heaven, His followers began a new religion based on the belief that Jesus was, indeed, the Son of God, sent to fulfill the prophecies. The new religion was called "The Way." Later, it came to be called Christianity, and it's followers, "Christians."

Today, modern Christians tend to forget that Jesus was first, Jewish; that He taught in the Temple; that He taught Jewish religion and traditions. Part of those traditions and religious beliefs dealt with pregnancy and the unborn.

Now, for the parts of the BBCwebsite:

"Traditional Judaism regards a fetus as a being part of the mother's body that is developing towards being a person.

"The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in "Halacha" [Jewish law] is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being - but not quite. In Judaism a fetus is not considered to be a person until it is born. Before that, it is regarded as a part of the mother's body, although it does possess certain characteristics of a person and some status. During the first forty days after conception, it is considered 'mere fluid'.

"According to the Halacha or Jewish Law a fetus is considered part of the mother's body and not a full human being. The book of Exodus (21:22) says...

"When men fight and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning. But if other damage ensues, the penalty shall be life for life... ." "Other damage" is taken, in this text, to mean "the death of the mother."

"This passage is interpreted as saying that causing the fetus to miscarry is a civil wrong that gives rise to the right to financial restitution - which indicates that the fetus is not a person. But, k*****g the mother is murder, because the mother is a person.

"From an ethical point of view, then: a fetus is not a person but a fetus should nonetheless be protected to some extent because it is growing towards full personhood. So a fetus should not be destroyed or harmed except for very good reasons. The high status given to a fetus is demonstrated by the fact that Jewish law permits desecration of the Sabbath in order to save the life of a fetus.

"The distinguished Jewish rabbi Rashi wrote: "For as long as it (the fetus) did not come out into the world, it is not called a living thing and it is permissible to take its life in order to save its mother. Once the head has come forth, it may not be harmed because it is considered born, and one life may not be taken to save another. This passage, too, makes it clear that Judaism regards a fetus as a lesser human being than a human being who has been (at least partially) born.

"But although the fetus has no personhood and therefore none of the rights and privileges of a human being, it must still be protected as a potential human being, and not casually harmed or destroyed."

"The Talmud (commentary on Jewish oral traditions) gives other examples on the status of the fetus.

"The first involves the sale of a cow, which is subsequently found to be pregnant. No payment is made for the sale of the fetus to the buyer and the fetus belongs to the buyer.

"The second example concerns the conversion of a pregnant woman to Judaism. Jewish law regards the conversion valid for her future child as well, requiring no separate conversion for it after birth."

Okay, all you pro-choices and pro-lifers, what say ye?