Authoritarianism and Donald J Trump (Page 5): How about the democratics rigging of the 1960 election between Kennedy and Nixon y'all failed to remember that that polling place in...

77Reaganite Loc: Athens, GA, United States

Singularity wrote:

Another conservative dodge/distraction. From all h... (show quote)

How about the democratics rigging of the 1960 election between Kennedy and Nixon y'all failed to remember that that polling place in Dallas Texas that was burnt down to the ground was the reason why Kennedy ultimately won I guess the Democrats failed to remember that

Singularity

byronglimish wrote:

But we haven't got to the episode where the castaways reenact the storm that wrecked the S.S.MINNOW.

Remember? Gilligan didn't have the anchor attached to the rope.

I've got chores to do.

You are supposed to give "Spoiler Alerts" in case someone hasn't seen the episode yet!

So socially irresponsible, . . .

Hard to see how we stay friends....

Singularity

77Reaganite wrote:

How about the democratics rigging of the 1960 election between Kennedy and Nixon y'all failed to remember that that polling place in Dallas Texas that was burnt down to the ground was the reason why Kennedy ultimately won I guess the Democrats failed to remember that

Dude, I was FOUR! And they wouldn't let me vote. That's the injustice I remember!!!

My mama got me a Kennedy Family paper doll book where I could punch out a cardboard cutout of the person, use round edged scissors to cut out photos from pages of their clothes and dress Caroline or Jackie or who ever up every day in a different outfit.

Boring. I left Caroline on the coffee table, knowing the air flow dynamics that I had observed which usually occurred when someone opened the door in the winter time would cause a draft which flung Caroline and her daily outfit into the flames of perdition in the fireplace.

Vote on THAT, Caroline!

Amazing! I googled it and found a PHOTO OF THE BOOK ON AMAZON.

I also had a pair of Red Ball Jets sneakers like the ones John John is wearing in the cartoon!

Blackie

Why don't you lefties give examples when you make charges? If you were saying Gallagher was a war criminal, then all those who were with him and supported him at that time were also war criminals. They too should be tried, even his superiors.. When a nation is at war killing is usually germane to defeating the enemy.

Singularity

Blackie wrote:

Why don't you lefties give examples when you make charges? If you were saying Gallagher was a war criminal, then all those who were with him and supported him at that time were also war criminals. They too should be tried, even his superiors.. When a nation is at war killing is usually germane to defeating the enemy.

We do not train soldiers to kill indiscriminately. We accept their personal sacrifices, the physical, emotional, and spiritual, in the struggle towards peace and the ultimate goal of the end of killing.

Theoretically.

Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ

Singularity wrote:

This silly WHATABOUTISM is another dodge/deflection! Are you simply constitutionally unable to focus enough to stay on one topic? Of course not, it is simply a transparent ploy to change the subject because you're uncomfortable that you have no answer to the question originally asked.

How could my remark be seen as a deflection when I only referred you to, what others have done, that were what the left claims that Trump has done? I was inquiring if they didn't seem to be the same to you then maybe you might look at the intentions of each of those two parties. One to stop an investigation and the other to look into corruption that happened in the Ukraine. I would like to make some sense of your observations of both people. Not related to that, I sincerely hope lyou can have a great recovery from your illness. Get well soon!

Singularity

Louie27 wrote:

I suppose you don't, in the least, think having Bi... (show quote)

Your post was addressed as part of the group in the "what about this!?!?" onslaught. You say you really want a serious comment on your points to understand my view. Ill try to accommodate. You mostly seem to want to tease out why there are different responses to the Biden situation and the Trump crimes.

A good place to start would be to mutually endorse a shared reality. Could you outline what part of your view of reality differs from the "fact checked" reports listed here? Noticed that throughout the article there is the comment, "Full fact check here." This, in the article, gives you a clickable link to background information for that sub section.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/28/politics/fact-checking-trump-ukraine-scandal-bidens/index.html

A readers' guide to fact-checking Trump's Ukraine controversy
By Daniel Dale, Tara Subramaniam and Holmes Lybrand, CNN
Updated 4:10 PM EDT, Mon October 07, 2019

Washington(CNN)President Donald Trump has made a blizzard of claims about Ukraine, China and the impeachment inquiry. Many of them have been attacks on Democrats, and many of them have been incorrect.

Here is a brief readers' guide to our fact checks on all things related to Trump's Ukraine controversy and the resulting impeachment inquiry.

This post will be updated as events unfold.

Hunter Biden and the investigation
Trump has repeatedly claimed that former vice president Joe Biden had called for the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who was "investigating his son." There is no evidence Hunter Biden was ever under investigation. The investigation was into the business dealings of the owner of a Ukrainian natural gas company, Burisma Holdings, where Hunter Biden sat on the board of directors. In addition, a former Ukrainian deputy prosecutor and top anti-corruption activist have said the investigation was dormant at the time. And chief prosecutor Viktor Shokin's successor, Yuriy Lutsenko, has said in interviews this year that Hunter Biden didn't violate any Ukrainian laws.

Full fact check here.

Joe Biden's pressure on Ukraine
Trump has also claimed that Biden pressured Ukraine to take chief prosecutor Viktor Shokin "off the case." Biden pressured Ukrainian leaders to fire Shokin -- the Obama administration, US allies and Ukrainian anti-corruption activists saw Shokin as unwilling to prosecute elite corruption -- but there is no public evidence that Biden sought to get Shokin removed from any particular case.

Full fact check here.

Joe Biden's boasting
Trump claimed in his July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that Biden had boasted about having "stopped the prosecution." Biden had boasted about getting Shokin fired, but he did not say he had stopped any prosecution. Shokin had been controversial precisely because he was unwilling to bring corruption prosecutions.

Full fact check here.

The Bidens and China
Trump has claimed that "Joe Biden and his son walk(ed) away with millions of dollars from Ukraine and then millions of dollars from China." There is no basis for Trump's claim about Joe Biden. A company on whose board Hunter Biden sat, however, received a large investment of Chinese capital shortly after Hunter Biden visited the country with his father, and Hunter Biden later purchased an equity stake in the company. A lawyer for Hunter Biden says he has not received any return or compensation from his investment or board position.

Full fact check here.

Trump has also conflated Hunter Biden's involvement in Ukraine and China. On October 4, after speaking to reporters about Biden and China, Trump said, "Now I'm hearing the number $50,000 a month." That is the approximate amount the New York Times has reported Biden was paid for his board role with Ukrainian company Burisma, not an amount related to China. Trump then claimed, seconds later, that Biden was "getting hundreds of thousands a month," a number for which there is no public evidence.

Joe Biden's previous comments
Trump said Joe Biden contradicted himself when he said in September that he had "never" spoken to his son Hunter about his son's overseas business dealings; Trump claimed Joe Biden had previously said the opposite. That is not true. Hunter Biden, however, did tell the New Yorker that there was one father-son conversation about his business dealings in Ukraine.

Full fact check here.

The delay in aid to Ukraine
Before he began justifying his decision to delay military aid to Ukraine, Trump told reporters that there was no delay at all -- an assertion obviously contradicted by the facts.

Trump suggested on September 23 that he froze the funds because he was worried about "corruption" and whether "that country is honest." He explicitly said on September 24 that the funds were withheld, this time claiming he was waiting for "Europe and other nations" to spend their own money on Ukraine.

A full fact check is here.

European aid to Ukraine
Trump has repeatedly claimed the US is the "only" country providing aid to Ukraine, and he has specifically accused certain European countries of doing nothing. In reality, the EU has sent several billion dollars to Ukraine over the past few years.

Full fact check here.

Obama's aid to Ukraine
Trump suggested that Barack Obama sent only "pillows and sheets" to Ukraine, not the lethal arms he has himself sent. This was hyperbole. While Trump is correct that Obama refused to provide lethal assistance, Obama did provide armored Humvees, drones, counter-mortar radar, night vision gear and medical supplies.

Full fact check here.

CrowdStrike
In his July phone call with Zelensky, Trump made vague claims about CrowdStrike -- the American cybersecurity company he has wrongly described as Ukrainian -- and "the server." These claims were confusing, but we tried to explain what he might be talking about:

In short, Trump seemed to be alluding to a baseless conspiracy theory that Russia was not responsible for hacking Democratic National Committee computer servers during the 2016 election. CrowdStrike, hired by the DNC to investigate the hack, had said Russia was responsible, a finding later corroborated by special counsel Robert Mueller.

Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani has been among the people pushing a theory that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election through "collusion" with Democrats.

Full fact check here.

The Democrats' letter to Ukraine
Trump claimed that a 2018 letter from three Democratic senators to Ukraine's prosecutor general made a threat to withdraw US assistance if Ukraine did not do what they wanted. The letter did not make a threat; it urged the prosecutor not to close investigations into former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort or stop cooperating with Mueller to avoid angering Trump, as the New York Times reported had happened.

Full fact check here.

Schiff's comments
Trump criticized Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff for Schiff's comments at a House Intelligence Committee hearing with the acting DNI. In a tweet, he said Schiff's remarks were made "illegally." It is very much not illegal to do a bad paraphrase in a congressional committee meeting. The Constitution has a specific clause that lets legislators say what they want during congressional business without facing legal repercussions.

Full fact check here.

Treason
Trump called Schiff's rendition of Trump's July phone call with the President of Ukraine "treasonous" in an exchange with reporters alongside the Finnish president.

None of this is anything close to "treason," a word with an actual, narrow definition in the Constitution.

Full fact check here.

The whistleblower
Trump said the whistleblower's account of his call with Zelensky was "totally wrong." The whistleblower's three chief allegations were all correct.

Full fact check here.

Whistleblower complaint
In response to a New York Times report that Schiff knew about the whistleblower's concerns before the official complaint was filed, Trump claimed that Schiff "knew long before and helped write it, too."

Spokespeople for both Schiff and the whistleblower denied the allegations.

Full fact check here.

An 'exact transcript'
Trump claimed that the document released by the White House is an "exact transcript" of his call with Zelensky.

It is not an exact transcript. We know this because the document itself says so.

Full fact check here.

The whistleblower complaint form
Trump tweeted out a conspiracy theory that the form to submit whistleblower complaints was secretly changed to allow those with secondhand information to submit complaints.

There have been no changes to the rules surrounding who can submit a whistleblower complaint.

Full fact check here.

View on CNN
© 2019 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Singularity

Singularity wrote:

Your post was addressed as part of the group in th... (show quote)

This is a massive amount of information. Feel free to cherry pick the subject matter that piqued your interest if you wish and get back to me for specifics of my reactions if that interests you further.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Singularity wrote:

Your post was addressed as part of the group in th... (show quote)

I doubt you have the integrity, desire, or inclination to get the facts straight, Single.

It is the Left that are untrustworthy when getting honest vote counts.

Republicans will have to be extra diligent in the 2020 elections to make sure we get honest vote counts.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

eagleye13 wrote:

I doubt you have the integrity, desire, or inclination to get the facts straight, Single.

It is the Left that are untrustworthy when getting honest vote counts.

Republicans will have to be extra diligent in the 2020 elections to make sure we get honest vote counts.

It is amazing to me how many intelligent leftists who can't slow down long enough to calculate the truth, as they would with their personal finances.

Singularity

eagleye13 wrote:

I doubt you have the integrity, desire, or inclination to get the facts straight, Single.

It is the Left that are untrustworthy when getting honest vote counts.

Republicans will have to be extra diligent in the 2020 elections to make sure we get honest vote counts.

You question my integrity?!

Or fear an honest discussion? Have you even attempted to skim the article I just posted? Is there not one factoid in the entire article you can examine and competently debunk or confirm?

You appear to just want to complain and whine without any honest intelligent effort at fruitful discussion.

Without investigation, fact finding or discussion, you just choose a convenient rhetorical position and plop down! Then, instead of taking a stand, and defending it, you go to sleep and try to prevail thru sheer inertia?

Have a nice nap, then. Sweet dreams.

Singularity

byronglimish wrote:

It is amazing to me how many intelligent leftists who can't slow down long enough to calculate the truth, as they would with their personal finances.

I slowed down, stopped, and made an effort at a fruitful discussion of these issues. Offered a starting pile of claims and opinions related to the topic of purported interest. Nary a nibble at the subject, rather simply a noise making campaign to scare away all the fact fishes!

In this particular instance, it is not I who is falling asleep on the job.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Singularity wrote:

Your post was addressed as part of the group in th... (show quote)

You believe any thing coming from CNN?

Since the first 3 or 4 fact checks are lies.
No need to go any further;

Hunter Biden and the investigation
Trump has repeatedly claimed that former vice president Joe Biden had called for the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who was "investigating his son."
(There is video of Joe doing that exact thing) There is no evidence Hunter Biden was ever under investigation. The investigation was into the business dealings of the owner of a Ukrainian natural gas company, Burisma Holdings, where Hunter Biden sat on the board of directors. (collecting a huge "salary") In addition, a former Ukrainian deputy prosecutor and top anti-corruption activist have said the investigation was dormant at the time. And chief prosecutor Viktor Shokin's successor, Yuriy Lutsenko, has said in interviews this year that Hunter Biden didn't violate any Ukrainian laws.

Full fact check here. (really?)

Joe Biden's pressure on Ukraine
Trump has also claimed that Biden pressured Ukraine to take chief prosecutor Viktor Shokin "off the case." ( This also on video; and then Joe bragging about it) Biden pressured Ukrainian leaders to fire Shokin -- the Obama administration, US allies and Ukrainian anti-corruption activists saw Shokin as unwilling to prosecute elite corruption -- but there is no public evidence that Biden sought to get Shokin removed from any particular case.

Full fact check here. (really?)

Joe Biden's boasting
Trump claimed in his July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that Biden had boasted about having "stopped the prosecution." Biden had boasted about getting Shokin fired, but he did not say he had stopped any prosecution. Shokin had been controversial precisely because he was unwilling to bring corruption prosecutions.
(Yep. Biden was video taped doing that exact thing)
Full fact check here.

The Bidens and China
Trump has claimed that "Joe Biden and his son walk(ed) away with millions of dollars from Ukraine and then millions of dollars from China."

There is no basis for Trump's claim about Joe Biden. A company on whose board Hunter Biden sat, however, received a large investment of Chinese capital shortly after Hunter Biden visited the country with his father, and Hunter Biden later purchased an equity stake in the company. A lawyer for Hunter Biden says he has not received any return or compensation from his investment or board position.

Full fact check here.
( Put on hold?)

Trump has also conflated Hunter Biden's involvement in Ukraine and China. On October 4, after speaking to reporters about Biden and China, Trump said, "Now I'm hearing the number $50,000 a month." That is the approximate amount the New York Times has reported Biden was paid for his board role with Ukrainian company Burisma, not an amount related to China. Trump then claimed, seconds later, that Biden was "getting hundreds of thousands a month," a number for which there is no public evidence.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Singlulrity!
BTW; In case you or others are interested in the Biden's "poor judgement";

Rep. Jim Jordan reacts to Hunter Biden's interview
https://youtu.be/dWPMTLoAdnc?list=TLPQMDIxMjIwMTkM4GfUth3EoA

Nunes: This could be the end for Biden's campaign
https://youtu.be/Cju1HdCuUKw?list=TLPQMDIxMjIwMTkM4GfUth3EoA

Singularity

eagleye13 wrote:

You believe any thing coming from CNN? br br br ... (show quote)

I'm not sure you CHECKED any of the links for fact checking. Your only rebuttal seems to be, "Really?" and some scattered, muttered alternate claims, without factual rebuttal. If Joe Biden claimed something probative, provide the tape or transcript so we can be sure what he actually said!

In short, this matter is a side topic here. I've provided facts and narrative as well as links to the supporting evidence.

You are unhappy about associating with three capital letters (CNN) and thus unwilling to look further and validate or properly defend an alternative with anything but vaguely discontented grunting.

Why not do it in another thread of your own. Here, it is an off topic rabbit hole, without substance on your part, most likely designed to derail from the present topic.

Which was my claim in the first place.

I'm not too lazy to do the work for you, I just don't see how it would benefit a mind so closed to examining it.