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Why do Republican hate Obamacare
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Nov 30, 2013 01:18:25   #
Harpooner1
 
octive9 wrote:
I think he has done better with foreign affairs than Romney or McCain would have. I think he avoided 2 or 3 was that the Republicans would have started. But that is a whole different topic and should probably be on a different thread.


Wait a minute.....Foreign affairs? You think he has succeeded?
Let us start with the Iraq pullout. Now, I know this was popular to bring the troops home, it always is. But, think of this...After WWII, we still have military bases in the countries that were defeated. Yes, we do. Germany, Japan, Italy. We have bases there. The Axis powers were defeated and they do not pose a threat to the US now. We defeat Iraq and we leave. What happens? a free zone for Iran to export it's terrorism . believe it or not, this is what has happened. Do you think Syria would be in this state if there was a strong US present? Or a strong US leader? Obama has made critical mistakes. But, that is his plan.
Do not listen to words, look at actions. This is an administration that does lead from behind, and when the shit hits the fan, they take 0 responsibility.
Domestically and Internationally, this man is inept. The reason he has the people around him that he does is because they are more stupid than he is.....You look smart when everyone around you is more incompetent.

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Nov 30, 2013 01:21:46   #
UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA
 
bmac32 has sound advice that you even recognize on your website - health insurance is the means to pay for care. You should seriously consider getting some for financial insurance purposes. You can always invoke your right to not accept what ever they are peddling but if you are unable to communicate and they treat you, it will save you from at least having to pay them or worse, bankruptcy.

octive9 wrote:
That is why I am concerned with health care insurance. Not for me but for those that need it. Like I said, it took me years to get to where I am, and I don't expect anyone else to see it the way I do, but I just do not play in the orthodox medical game.

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Nov 30, 2013 01:37:22   #
octive9
 
UncleJesse wrote:
bmac32 has sound advice that you even recognize on your website - health insurance is the means to pay for care. You should seriously consider getting some for financial insurance purposes. You can always invoke your right to not accept what ever they are peddling but if you are unable to communicate and they treat you, it will save you from at least having to pay them or worse, bankruptcy.


Thanks for your concern, but at this point, for me to buy insurance would be counter productive. It would be like a baseball player investing in footballs. I know I am the odd ball and I don't expect anyone else to follow my path, but that is where I am, and I am comfortable with it.

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Nov 30, 2013 01:50:03   #
UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA
 
Oh, I see. I know there are folks able to afford being self-insured, I just never met one; usually only read about them.
octive9 wrote:
Thanks for your concern, but at this point, for me to buy insurance would be counter productive. It would be like a baseball player investing in footballs. I know I am the odd ball and I don't expect anyone else to follow my path, but that is where I am, and I am comfortable with it.

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Nov 30, 2013 01:54:30   #
octive9
 
UncleJesse wrote:
Oh, I see. I know there are folks able to afford being self-insured, I just never met one; usually only read about them.


It has nothing to do with money. I just don't use our so-called health care system.

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Nov 30, 2013 02:37:44   #
USpatriot77 Loc: USA
 
My number one disagreement with "obama"care? Call it what it is-a TAX! Then, my next concern is it violates the US Constitution, and it takes away the people's freedom of choice-just look at any program that the government runs! They ALL are either going broke and milking the public blind or are so corrupt from the unscrupulous people running them that they aren't what they ever started out to be.
Then there is the fact that this program was put forth to the public under false assumptions and hidden agendas and all out lies!
This WILL bankrupt this country-any economist worth anything will tell you that. If you want to look at a good example of this program, all you have to do is look north to Canada. They wait months for appointments and care IS rationed. They also DO limit or even exclude citizen's from care with terminal or untreatable conditions. How do I know this? I have relatives that live in Canada under this program, and have fallen victim to it's cruel realities! This is what America is headed for-whether we like it or not! I, for one will NOT enroll OR pay any fines for not doing so. Jail? Maybe! but then tell me how they will collect their fines! This is time for revolution in this country and like before, the common man didn't start it, but for damn sure we will finish it-again!
GOD bless the United States of America
"Si vis pakem, para bellum!"
Pray for peace, prepare for war!
octive9 wrote:
Your comments seem to be all about Obama, not Obamacare. It is obvious that you hate him, and I am asking that you keep this a civil discussion. So what is it about ACA that you are so against? What if Romney did it instead of Obama, like he did in Mass.

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Nov 30, 2013 02:42:38   #
USpatriot77 Loc: USA
 
And as for hating Obama! I do not know the man-but I do hate the fact that he thinks he can push his will on me and mine. I do hate the fact that he is destroying America-and the founding principles it was created on. So, again your asumption is wrong!

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Nov 30, 2013 03:26:58   #
Harpooner1
 
USpatriot77 wrote:
And as for hating Obama! I do not know the man-but I do hate the fact that he thinks he can push his will on me and mine. I do hate the fact that he is destroying America-and the founding principles it was created on. So, again your asumption is wrong!


Patriot,
if it was just about one thing..Obamacare, that would be what it is....One thing...we could see it as it is and debate the merits..But , it is more than that. Look at what the leftist are doing. They infiltrate the education system by not only lowering standards, but, with curriculum that is for an agenda...the government regulates more and more and makes us less and less competitive in world markets. Social engineering in the military...It just won't work. Obamacare is social engineering. It has been tried before in many different forms and it has failed. This is but one step away from a totalitarian state. Now, if you think I am raising a false flag, just look at the history of dictatorships. Or, Rome...
There are so many similarities to Fascism and dictatorship to this administration....Don't fall asleep or think it cannot be stopped.
Wise eyes are always open.

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Nov 30, 2013 03:32:34   #
octive9
 
USpatriot77 wrote:
My number one disagreement with "obama"care? Call it what it is-a TAX! Then, my next concern is it violates the US Constitution, and it takes away the people's freedom of choice-just look at any program that the government runs! They ALL are either going broke and milking the public blind or are so corrupt from the unscrupulous people running them that they aren't what they ever started out to be.
Then there is the fact that this program was put forth to the public under false assumptions and hidden agendas and all out lies!
This WILL bankrupt this country-any economist worth anything will tell you that. If you want to look at a good example of this program, all you have to do is look north to Canada. They wait months for appointments and care IS rationed. They also DO limit or even exclude citizen's from care with terminal or untreatable conditions. How do I know this? I have relatives that live in Canada under this program, and have fallen victim to it's cruel realities! This is what America is headed for-whether we like it or not! I, for one will NOT enroll OR pay any fines for not doing so. Jail? Maybe! but then tell me how they will collect their fines! This is time for revolution in this country and like before, the common man didn't start it, but for damn sure we will finish it-again!
GOD bless the United States of America
"Si vis pakem, para bellum!"
Pray for peace, prepare for war!
My number one disagreement with "obama"c... (show quote)


We all pay taxes for things we don't want. Taxes are a part of life. I don't like my tax dollars being used to start wars, but I have to accept it. I paid into medicare for decades, and have have never used it, and don't ever plan too, but I have learned to just let it go.

The one that I find most detestable is the war on drugs. I think they have spent a trillion dollars and turned freedom on its head, just because some people want to use some products that they disapprove of, even though many in power have used drugs themselves. I think that is much, much worse than ACA.

As for being constitutional, the Supreme court has already ruled on that. Complaining about it will only irritate you. There is nothing any of us can do about it now.

There are still choices in health care plans, just higher minimums for coverage, and I sure a lot more changes that I am not aware of.

I'll agree that government is corrupt and can be very inefficient. But what we have had in the health care world has been so corrupted that it already rivals other government programs. Healthcare costs have been rising at about 15%, which is way above the rest of the economy. One thing that I think is good about ACA is the 80% of insurance premiums must be used for health care services. It has already reduced the rate if inflation in healthcare costs.

I have heard that Germany has a pretty good system. Maybe we could learn from countries that are happy with their health care systems. I think healthcare should be about health, not money.

From what I have gathered about the fines is there isn't much teeth in it. The only way they can collect it is to take it out of your tax refund. If you don't have a refund coming, there is nothing they can do.

ACA is not perfect, it has plenty of problems, but it is here and we have to live with it. Repeal isn't going to happen with Obama in office, and he has 3 more years. By then it will be part of our society. I just think it would be better for the politicians to stop fighting and start fixing.

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Nov 30, 2013 03:59:10   #
Harpooner1
 
octive9 wrote:
We all pay taxes for things we don't want. Taxes are a part of life. I don't like my tax dollars being used to start wars, but I have to accept it. I paid into medicare for decades, and have have never used it, and don't ever plan too, but I have learned to just let it go.

The one that I find most detestable is the war on drugs. I think they have spent a trillion dollars and turned freedom on its head, just because some people want to use some products that they disapprove of, even though many in power have used drugs themselves. I think that is much, much worse than ACA.

As for being constitutional, the Supreme court has already ruled on that. Complaining about it will only irritate you. There is nothing any of us can do about it now.

There are still choices in health care plans, just higher minimums for coverage, and I sure a lot more changes that I am not aware of.

I'll agree that government is corrupt and can be very inefficient. But what we have had in the health care world has been so corrupted that it already rivals other government programs. Healthcare costs have been rising at about 15%, which is way above the rest of the economy. One thing that I think is good about ACA is the 80% of insurance premiums must be used for health care services. It has already reduced the rate if inflation in healthcare costs.

I have heard that Germany has a pretty good system. Maybe we could learn from countries that are happy with their health care systems. I think healthcare should be about health, not money.

From what I have gathered about the fines is there isn't much teeth in it. The only way they can collect it is to take it out of your tax refund. If you don't have a refund coming, there is nothing they can do.

ACA is not perfect, it has plenty of problems, but it is here and we have to live with it. Repeal isn't going to happen with Obama in office, and he has 3 more years. By then it will be part of our society. I just think it would be better for the politicians to stop fighting and start fixing.
We all pay taxes for things we don't want. Taxes ... (show quote)


Well, The war on drugs is something that we can learn from other countries. Switzerland had the experiment with " needle park" and that didn't work out so well. Singapore, on the other hand has death to traffickers..Thus, a low problem. We tried prohibition and it is clear people like their drinks. Now, you could legalize drugs and this might reduce the crime involved and bring in tax revenue, but, that is a slippery slope. Do the American people subsidize our own demise? Yeah, we do in a way. The legalization of marijuana is growing and with it comes the unintended consequences of this " freedom" . Why not just go for it and throw out all the laws for DUI and any possession..Let's try that. And let Obama just tell us what is right and wrong. IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE!.
So, why not let our great president choose what our choice should be? Right?

Over my dead body.............

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Nov 30, 2013 04:10:21   #
73STNGLKABEE
 
Romneycare is designed to be instituted by states, not by the entire Federal Government to blanket all states. Plus conservatives see the selective application of the law by the left. Plus it is not voluntary. Plus youre fined for not enrolling, hence the mandate. Any other questions? Not a mystery champ.
octive9 wrote:
I have been trying to figure out why the right seems to hate Obamacare so much. It was designed after Romneycare, with one of the main features as the individual mandate. That idea started with the Heritage foundation as an alternative to the left's idea of single payer.

Is it just political? Are they upset because Obama stole their ideas?

Every time I see someone from the right asked what they would replace ACA with if they could repeal it, I hear things like we should sit down and come up with a by-partisan plan, but in today's political climate the chances of that happening seem slim to none.

If you have some thoughts as to why they are so against ACA, or if you know of some concepts from the right for something to replace it with, please reply. I am open to your thoughts.

If you just want to throw insults back and forth because someone has a different view than you, please don't. A forum should be a place to discuss ideas, not throw insults.
I have been trying to figure out why the right see... (show quote)

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Nov 30, 2013 04:30:34   #
Harpooner1
 
73STNGLKABEE wrote:
Romneycare is designed to be instituted by states, not by the entire Federal Government to blanket all states. Plus conservatives see the selective application of the law by the left. Plus it is not voluntary. Plus youre fined for not enrolling, hence the mandate. Any other questions? Not a mystery champ.

Plus. Obama has violated law by changing this law without congressional approval. So..is it a law or isn't it?

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Nov 30, 2013 04:39:26   #
octive9
 
73STNGLKABEE wrote:
Romneycare is designed to be instituted by states, not by the entire Federal Government to blanket all states. Plus conservatives see the selective application of the law by the left. Plus it is not voluntary. Plus youre fined for not enrolling, hence the mandate. Any other questions? Not a mystery champ.


That may be what Romney started saying when he ran against Obama, but here are some earlier quotes that make me think is just politics:

During a town hall in Ohio this morning, Mitt Romney responded to claims that he has previously called for Massachusetts health care reform to serve as a template for expanding coverage nationwide and emphatically denied the allegations. “Very early on, we were asked — is what you’ve done in Massachusetts something you would have the entire government do, the federal government do? I said no, from the very beginning,” Romney explained.

The claim is simply untrue. Since he signed reform into law in 2006, the former Massachusetts governor repeatedly urged the federal government to follow suit:

– 2006 — Q: Is this something you think Washington should consider for the whole country? ROMNEY: Well, there are some aspects of what we’re doing that could be applicable to the rest of the country.

– 2007 — ROMNEY: Our program is based on a private model health insurance program and that model will work for the nation.

– 2008 — Q: Although, you backed away from mandates on a national basis…? ROMNEY: No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work.

– 2009 — Q: Should the President be looking at Massachusetts as a model for lowering health care costs? ROMNEY: Massachusetts is a model for getting everyone insured.

Here is the link to where I found these quotes:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/03/05/438044/romney-mandate-model-video/

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Nov 30, 2013 04:53:52   #
Harpooner1
 
octive9 wrote:
That may be what Romney started saying when he ran against Obama, but here are some earlier quotes that make me think is just politics:

During a town hall in Ohio this morning, Mitt Romney responded to claims that he has previously called for Massachusetts health care reform to serve as a template for expanding coverage nationwide and emphatically denied the allegations. “Very early on, we were asked — is what you’ve done in Massachusetts something you would have the entire government do, the federal government do? I said no, from the very beginning,” Romney explained.

The claim is simply untrue. Since he signed reform into law in 2006, the former Massachusetts governor repeatedly urged the federal government to follow suit:

– 2006 — Q: Is this something you think Washington should consider for the whole country? ROMNEY: Well, there are some aspects of what we’re doing that could be applicable to the rest of the country.

– 2007 — ROMNEY: Our program is based on a private model health insurance program and that model will work for the nation.

– 2008 — Q: Although, you backed away from mandates on a national basis…? ROMNEY: No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work.

– 2009 — Q: Should the President be looking at Massachusetts as a model for lowering health care costs? ROMNEY: Massachusetts is a model for getting everyone insured.

Here is the link to where I found these quotes:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/03/05/438044/romney-mandate-model-video/
That may be what Romney started saying when he ran... (show quote)


" If you like your healthcare plan..You can keep it..Period."
" Families will see an average of 2500 dollar savings,,"
" If you like you doctor, you can keep your doctor..Guaranteed.."
Forget about Romney for a moment and work with what we have.....Obama is the president....Not Romney.

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Nov 30, 2013 05:29:58   #
maureenthannon
 
The A.C.A. is cutting Medicare 87% to pay for A.C.A., so the sickest Americans are getting hurt the most by A.C.A. Healthcare costs are going up for everyone, and many people are loosing their jobs or having their hours severly cut by A.C.A. Just because the people on the right don't want America trsashed doesn't make us evil.

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