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OT prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus Christ in the NT
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Jun 28, 2021 16:20:55   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
There is one verse difference between the Hebrew Bible and the Greco/Roman.

In the Jewish bible it's 17 and in the Christian Bible it's verse 16.

To understand the brazen manner in which Christiandom tampered with the Jewish scriptures, let's examine the verse that you insist "proves" that Jesus is the messiah.
Psalm 22:16 in the king James version reads,

Dogs have compasses me; the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me; they pierced my hands and my feet.

Understandably , Christians are confident that this passage contains a clear reference to Jesus' crucifixion. ''Of whom other than Jesus could the Psalmist be speaking''? missionaries ask.

They insist that the Bible could not be referring to any other person in history but the savior who bore the marks of the Cross.

Paradoxically , well-educated Jews are utterly repelled by the manner in which the church rendered the words of Psalm 22:17

To understand how Christian translators rewrote the words of King David, let's examine the original Hebrew words of this verse with a proper translation.

Correct translation....For dogs have compassed me; a company of evildoers have enclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

KJV...For dogs have compassed me, the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me; they pierced my hands and my feet.

I recall you not preferring the KJV, so you can compare with whatever Christian translation that suits you.

Notice that the English translation from the original Hebrew does not contain the word "pierced" The king James version deliberately mistranslated the Hebrew word kaari as "pierced" rather than "like a lion" thereby drawing the reader to a false conclusion that this Psalm is describing the Crucifixion.
The Hebrew word kaari does not mean pierced but plainly means "like a lion" The end of Psalm 22:17 , therefore, properly reads "like a lion they are at my hands and feet" Had king David wished to write the word "pierced" he would never have used kaari. Instead he would have written either daqar or ratza which are common words in the Hebrew scriptures.

These common words mean to "stab" or "pierce" Needless to say, the phrase " they pierced my hands and my feet" is a not too-ingenious Christian contrivance that appears nowhere in the Tanach.

Bear in mind, this stunning mistranslation in the 22nd Psalm was not born out of ignorance.

Christian translators were well aware of the correct meaning of this simple Hebrew word kaari and deliberately twisted their translations of this text.

The word kaari can be found in many other places in the Jewish scriptures and they correctly translated "like a lion" in all places in Christian Bibles where this word appears with the exception of Psalm 22 the Church's "Crucifixion Psalm"

King David, the author of Psalm 22, identifies his enemies as "lions" that immediately precede and follow psalm 22:17.

Psalm 22:12-13..Many bulls have compassed me; strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. 13..They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and roaring lion.

Psalm 22:20-21...Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. 21.Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
There is one verse difference between the Hebrew B... (show quote)

Psalm 22:16
HEB: מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃
KJV: For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and feet
INT: For dogs have surrounded me; the congregation of the wicked has enclosed me pierced my hands and my feet

pierce
<3738>
kā·’ă·rî — 1 Occurrence
[כוּר] verb meaning bore, or dig, or hew

IOW to bore or dig at or pierce my feet.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 16:31:15   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
There is one verse difference between the Hebrew Bible and the Greco/Roman.

In the Jewish bible it's 17 and in the Christian Bible it's verse 16.

To understand the brazen manner in which Christiandom tampered with the Jewish scriptures, let's examine the verse that you insist "proves" that Jesus is the messiah.
Psalm 22:16 in the king James version reads,

Dogs have compasses me; the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me; they pierced my hands and my feet.

Understandably , Christians are confident that this passage contains a clear reference to Jesus' crucifixion. ''Of whom other than Jesus could the Psalmist be speaking''? missionaries ask.

They insist that the Bible could not be referring to any other person in history but the savior who bore the marks of the Cross.

Paradoxically , well-educated Jews are utterly repelled by the manner in which the church rendered the words of Psalm 22:17

To understand how Christian translators rewrote the words of King David, let's examine the original Hebrew words of this verse with a proper translation.

Correct translation....For dogs have compassed me; a company of evildoers have enclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

KJV...For dogs have compassed me, the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me; they pierced my hands and my feet.

I recall you not preferring the KJV, so you can compare with whatever Christian translation that suits you.

Notice that the English translation from the original Hebrew does not contain the word "pierced" The king James version deliberately mistranslated the Hebrew word kaari as "pierced" rather than "like a lion" thereby drawing the reader to a false conclusion that this Psalm is describing the Crucifixion.
The Hebrew word kaari does not mean pierced but plainly means "like a lion" The end of Psalm 22:17 , therefore, properly reads "like a lion they are at my hands and feet" Had king David wished to write the word "pierced" he would never have used kaari. Instead he would have written either daqar or ratza which are common words in the Hebrew scriptures.

These common words mean to "stab" or "pierce" Needless to say, the phrase " they pierced my hands and my feet" is a not too-ingenious Christian contrivance that appears nowhere in the Tanach.

Bear in mind, this stunning mistranslation in the 22nd Psalm was not born out of ignorance.

Christian translators were well aware of the correct meaning of this simple Hebrew word kaari and deliberately twisted their translations of this text.

The word kaari can be found in many other places in the Jewish scriptures and they correctly translated "like a lion" in all places in Christian Bibles where this word appears with the exception of Psalm 22 the Church's "Crucifixion Psalm"

King David, the author of Psalm 22, identifies his enemies as "lions" that immediately precede and follow psalm 22:17.

Psalm 22:12-13..Many bulls have compassed me; strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. 13..They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and roaring lion.

Psalm 22:20-21...Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. 21.Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
There is one verse difference between the Hebrew B... (show quote)


Interesting reading concerning your opinion that Christians rewrote the words -

https://thisholysword.blogspot.com/2013/12/psalm-2216-karu-or-kari.html

This isn't the only place I've read that the Hebrew bible and Talmud both contain numerous spelling errors.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 17:06:53   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Parky60 wrote:
Psalm 22:16
HEB: מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃
KJV: For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and feet
INT: For dogs have surrounded me; the congregation of the wicked has enclosed me pierced my hands and my feet

pierce
<3738>
kā·’ă·rî — 1 Occurrence
[כוּר] verb meaning bore, or dig, or hew

IOW to bore or dig at or pierce my feet.




So no comments on the deliberate mistranslation?

Reply
 
 
Jun 28, 2021 17:08:09   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
So no comments on the deliberate mistranslation?


You do realize your assertion is opinion?

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 17:13:03   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
Interesting reading concerning your opinion that Christians rewrote the words -

https://thisholysword.blogspot.com/2013/12/psalm-2216-karu-or-kari.html

This isn't the only place I've read that the Hebrew bible and Talmud both contain numerous spelling errors.



What I posted is the simple strait forward example of a deliberate mistranslation.

No amount of around the apologetic mulberry bush can change the truth that Psalm 22 was altered from the original.

Did you find the specific Hebrew scripture that says the Jews would reject the messiah as you claim?

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 17:16:06   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
You do realize your assertion is opinion?


That's your opinion based against the "fact" that the original was changed to fit the narrative desired by the Christian translators.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 17:37:49   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
You do realize your assertion is opinion?


The information that I provided is from a prominent Jewish scholar by the name of Tovia Singer.

It is not my opinion, but is in fact, truth.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:06:09   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
So no comments on the deliberate mistranslation?

My final comment was quite succinct and based on MY OWN research of the text to gain knowledge, understanding and wisdom while being guided by the Holy Spirit and not by man.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:09:37   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
The information that I provided is from a prominent Jewish scholar by the name of Tovia Singer.

It is not my opinion, but is in fact, truth.


It is your opinion of his opinion. One scholar does not make something true.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:18:19   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
What I posted is the simple strait forward example of a deliberate mistranslation.


No you certainly didn’t. And there is nothing to support your opinion that its a deliberate mistranslation. Zip.

Quote:
No amount of around the apologetic mulberry bush can change the truth that Psalm 22 was altered from the original.


You mean you won’t read it because you are comfortable with your opinion.

Quote:
Did you find the specific Hebrew scripture that says the Jews would reject the messiah as you claim?


If your mind is set on rejecting the Messiah then what difference would it make?

You should consult with some Messianic Jews who turned to Christ despite being told what you’re told.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:25:59   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
So no comments on the deliberate mistranslation?

Tell me Michael, to dig into the ground, is it not the same as piercing the ground?

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:51:49   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
If your mind is set on rejecting the Messiah then what difference would it make?

You should consult with some Messianic Jews who turned to Christ despite being told what you’re told.


You haven't even had enough time to check into anything that I've posted.

You reject what you "feel" is opinion.

There's no sense in debating a closed mind, because I know that you don't study into anything that you haven't already accepted as God's word.

It's actually a waste of my time and yours.

You have made claims that you haven't even backed up with scripture.

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:59:00   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
If your mind is set on rejecting the Messiah then what difference would it make?

You should consult with some Messianic Jews who turned to Christ despite being told what you’re told.


So you study, but try to demean me as someone who is just being told.

Do you see how "sister Mary better than you" that looks.

I'll guarantee that you aren't even close to me in actual study hours.

I can tell by how quickly you come up with a reason to not back your words with substance.

Have you never learned anything from anybody?

Or is that you just repeating their opinion?

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 18:59:39   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Parky60 wrote:
Tell me Michael, to dig into the ground, is it not the same as piercing the ground?


What's your point?

Reply
Jun 28, 2021 19:05:24   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
You haven't even had enough time to check into anything that I've posted.

You reject what you "feel" is opinion.


I reject what I "know" is opinion. Big difference. The reason I know it is because this isn't the first time I've seen it.

Quote:
There's no sense in debating a closed mind, because I know that you don't study into anything that you haven't already accepted as God's word.

It's actually a waste of my time and yours.

You have made claims that you haven't even backed up with scripture.


You know nothing of what I do. I have met those who've turned away before. Its not that uncommon. And they come up with all kinds of rationale to reject Christ.

Do you honestly believe you are the only one who has ever questioned their faith? Or translations?

You do EXACTLY what you claim I am doing. You refuse to look into it because your mind was closed when you rejected Christ. He is a stumbling block to you and a rock of offense ( Isaiah 8:11-15 and 1 Peter 2:8)

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