Parky60 wrote:
You have a short memory...I’ll repeat…
I believe you are referring to these two verses.
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. James 2:17 (NASB)
A faith without works is not real faith at all. It is only a matter of words. James is not saying that we are saved by faith plus works. To hold such a view would be to dishonor the finished work of Christ on the cross. If we were saved by faith plus works, then there would be two saviors—Jesus and ourselves. But the NT is very clear that Christ is the one and only Savior. What James is emphasizing is that we are not saved by a faith of words only but by that kind of faith which results in a life of good works. In other words, works are not the root of salvation but the fruit; they are not the cause but the effect.
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. James 2:26 (NASB)
Here the matter is summarized very beautifully. James compares faith to the human body. He likens works to the spirit. The body (faith) without the spirit (works) is lifeless, useless, valueless. So, faith without works is dead, ineffective, worthless. Obviously, it is a false faith, not genuine saving faith.
This CLEARLY summarizes that we are saved by faith alone and that works are an EVIDENCE of faith.
On last thing…here’s ANOTHER biblical support of salvation by faith alone. I’m sorry if you cannot understand this. Maybe you should go to the throne room and ask for discernment through the Holy Spirit.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
Couldn't be plainer.
You have a short memory...I’ll repeat… br br I be... (
show quote)
Parky, you wrote:
Parky60 wrote:
As Jesus admonished me, I've decided to quit casting pearls before swine and shake the dust from my feet.
What happened? I guess you are able to post errors. Can you admit you were wrong?
Did you read what I wrote here:
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-163979-2.html#2958247Because you are acting like the devil in constantly replying back to Jesus:
"But Psalms 91:11 says '
In all your ways. 'It's so simple a caveman can understand. It's so simple: in all your ways."
It is true that the Bible did say that:
"11For he will put his angels in charge of you, to guard you
in all your ways.
12They will bear you up in their hands, so that you won't dash your foot against a stone." Psalm 91:11-12
Clearly,
right here, it says nothing about not tempting the lord. So, Parky says, oops, I mean the devil says, "obviously, this applies across the board, 'in all your ways', therefore you can jump from a pinnacle and prove you are of God."
Maybe a caveman can understand it that way, but not Jesus Christ. Jesus said "man does not live...but by every word of God" so he proceeded to quote other scripture that refuted the devil's interpretation.
The devil's method of interpretation may sound simple, and may sound right, (because there is a way that seems right that leads to death), but when it negates other scriptures, it is literally, devilishly in error. The devil's method is how you interpret Paul's words, Parky. Jesus' method is what I've been using. And that is so obvious a child could see it.
So it is you who has the short memory and needs to be reminded. Will you throw a tantrum again, and run to your safe space because I tell you the truth?
"A text without a context is a pretext"
Do you understand what this means?
Here's a good, (although random), definition: "A Text Without a Context Is a Pretext. In other words,
a scripture read without thought to the surrounding verses is easily misconstrued. Each verse lies inside a chapter. Each chapter inside a Book, inside a Testament, and inside the whole of Scripture. The Best Interpreter of Scripture Is Scripture."
https://jameskennison.com/bible-stuff-a-text-without-a-context-is-a-pretext/So, what was the
context of Paul's words you keep quoting? After that we'll ask, What was the "
application" of Paul's words by the other apostles and by those who were the direct disciples of Paul?
First, the context for Paul's teaching on faith is Father Abraham. Abraham was given, first of all, two commandments and a promise. Were those commandments "works of the righteousness of the law"? No, they were the works of faith (Hebrews 11:8-9).
"He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision." Romans 4:12
To which Jesus himself agrees:
"If you were
Abraham's children, you would
do the works of Abraham." John 8:39
This explanation of the works of faith of father Abraham is the context you ignore. These are just a couple of the hundreds of scriptures you negate and ignore in your insistence on interpreting Paul the way the devil interprets God's word. About which Jesus had this to say:
"41You do the works of your father... 44Ye are of your father the devil..." John 8:41, 44
And just as the indignant Pharisees, you reject and deny Jesus' words (that you have to do the works of Abraham in order to be the sons of Abraham) rather than simply repent and believe.
So we must understand context. There are "works of faith", and then there are "works of righteousness which are the works of the law". Abraham did works, but they weren't works of the law, which would be true and actual "righteousness." Rather, he did works and steps of faith, whereby he was counted righteous: by the synergy of his faith working with his "works of faith".
"21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought ("sunergo –1, to work together, help in work, be partner in labour 2, to put forth power together with and thereby to assist") with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" James 2:21-22
Thus James says,
"You see then that by works, a man is justified, and
not only by faith." James 2:24
That is the only verse in the Greek Bible where "faith" and "alone" are used together, and you negate it by saying "salvation is by faith alone". Paul never put those words together like you Evangelicals do.
Is that simple enough for you?
So, when I say,
"TommyRadd wrote:
Faith + works = justification/salvation
I was just quoting James in James 2:22
And then you reply, the false interpretation:
"In other words: Faith in God PLUS my works = justification/salvatiion
"God + me = justification/salvatiion
"Now THAT'S unbiblical!!!"
First, it's a lie because it's not what I said, it's just you interpreting my words, and you're not understanding what the Bible teaches. And, you conclusion is inconsistent with what I've been saying, just like you do with scriptures.
Secondly, You confound the two. "Works of righteousness" are works of the law, "works of faith" are the works of God "which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10. You would be accusing Abraham of being able to boast of coming out of his father's house and going to the promised land as if those were "works of righteousness" when the Bible explicitly calls them "works" "of faith" (Hebrews 11:8-9. It wasn't until "after" (in Gen. 15:1) Abraham had done these things (in Gen. 12-14) that Abraham's faith (which included his obeying God's commandments) was counted for righteousness.
So, you ignore context in order to make your false conclusions. Pretext means: "A reason or excuse given to hide the real reason for something."
And what you are hiding is simply that you aren't living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, and you are thereby negating the "works/steps of faith" which God has before ordained that we should walk in, in the New Testament, just as Abraham was given steps that God before ordained that he walked in before his faith could be counted as righteous.
If I had been saying one must get righteous according to the law, in order to get saved, then your accusation would be accurate. But I never said that, or implied that, nor is that what I believe or am trying to say. You misinterpret me just like you misinterpret the Bible by taking me, and Paul, totally out of context.
Next is application. No one, and I repeat no one, in the book of Acts is shown to have "applied" what you say is all that is required. In fact they all show that at water baptism is where the "calling on the Lord" was consistently applied, if they mention it.
Not only that, but there is not one, I repeat, not one disciple of Paul on record who wrote the conclusion you and modern day Evangelicals have concocted. Not one. But there was a group that was very close, and they were the anti-Christian gnostics. And those who were legitimate disciples of Paul and the other apostles, consistent, clearly, and constantly renounced the ideas that you and modern day Evangelicals are proposing.
So when you accuse me, you are siding with the anti-Christian gnostics against all the apostles AND all of their legitimate, direct disciples.
In other words, if your interpretation is correct, the apostles, all of them, even Paul, failed at conveying the truth to anyone except the ones they themselves renounced. An then, only modern Evangelicals ultimately came up with the correct formula by which to respond to the gospel.
That is arrogance to the highest degree.
Is that so complicated?
If it is still too complicated for you, I humbly suggest that you shouldn't take it upon yourself to be an expounder or teacher of things that go over your head. I'm not saying that to be mean, but to protect you:
"Let not many of you be teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment. James 3:1
"...5the goal of this command is love, out of a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith; 6from which things some, having missed the mark,
have turned aside to vain talking;
7desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor about what they strongly affirm." 1 Timothy 1:5-7