Why is God a He (Page 41): I did not know that Ma'am. In English, the default pronoun is 'He;' much more preferable than 'it.' However political correctness has changed all that and I...

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

Zemirah wrote:

If I were speaking for atheists as one of them, I would have said "we, not they."
You were doing very well with that explanation, dtucker, until you got to the last line.
Your graceful apology, though unnecessary is accepted.

I'm a woman, so the "Sir" was not needed.

I did not know that Ma'am. In English, the default pronoun is 'He;' much more preferable than 'it.' However political correctness has changed all that and I simply cannot keep up with what is currently in vogue. Call me old fashion. Do you have a preference?

whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon

Amen, Tucker .... couldn't have said it better meself.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

They are not the same God! There is absolutely nothing "simple" about it.

With all due respect, that sounds like a gab fest during sophomore week at any liberal university in the land.

Have you carefully studied the Tanakh and Talmud of Judaism, the New Testament and Old Testament which form the Christian Bible, and the Qur'an and Hadiths of Islam?

The tenets of the respective religions are found in their holy books.

Have you worked beside, or worshiped with the adherents of these three different religions?

What is the source of your information? How did you arrive at your perceived "bottom line?"

dtucker300 wrote:

It's very simple. How they interpret and express ... (show quote)

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

What is in vogue is immaterial, rather, deal in reality.

Political correctness is a ruse to prevent the t***h from being spoken.

A little common sense, which appears to be in short supply, goes a long way,

Call people by their name or title. Call anything else by its name. If it lacks a name, name it.

dtucker300 wrote:

I did not know that Ma'am. In English, the default pronoun is 'He;' much more preferable than 'it.' However political correctness has changed all that and I simply cannot keep up with what is currently in vogue. Call me old fashion. Do you have a preference?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Zemirah wrote:

They are not the same God! There is absolutely nothing "simple" about it.

Well if one puts an exclamation mark at the end of the sentence one's point carries much more weight....

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With all due respect, that sounds like a gab fest during sophomore week at any liberal university in the land.

And yet both Tucker and I are conservatives... Hmmm...

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Have you carefully studied the Tanakh and Talmud of Judaism, the New Testament and Old Testament which form the Christian Bible, and the Qur'an and Hadiths of Islam?

Yep... Read the OT any number of times and love the NT... Especially the Gospels...
Koran have only read twice...
But spend time on all three...

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The tenets of the respective religions are found in their holy books.

That's the idea behind holy books ..

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Have you worked beside, or worshiped with the adherents of these three different religions?

Christians and Muslims yes.. .Any number of Churches and Muslims from numerous nations and backgrounds...
Had a great time doing Ramadan one year.... Although Islam is not the path for me...

Have known a few Jews... But never worshipped with them.... Would love the experience someday....

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What is the source of your information? How did you arrive at your perceived "bottom line?"

Will have to leave this one to Tucker... Can't put words in his mouth...

Rose42

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

Yet the Jews deny God has a son as well...
Hmmm?
How is it possible for the Jews to deny this fact and still worship the Lord?

I have inquired of others regarding this.. But have never received an answer... Other than the Jews are God's chosen people... Which doesn't negate the fact that they deny God has a son....

You HAVE received an answer several times but you rejected it. Interesting you keep bringing up the Jews in rationalizing your denial of Christ being the only way to salvation. You need to read from learned men and be able to discern who are false teachers. The spirits can’t be tested without the word.

Islam belongs to Satan. There’s no way around it. It doesn’t believe Christ is God’s son and without Christ there is no salvation - no saving from sin. There are many other differences but thats the core difference. Muslims don’t have an understanding of God and worship something different.

They need encouragement to seek Christ.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Rose42 wrote:

You HAVE received an answer several times but you ... (show quote)

Bizarre...

I have never once used the Jews as a justification for there being another path to God... No idea where you got that idea...

I have asked how Muslims not believing Christ is the son of God negates their worship in God if the Jews can deny it and still worship God...

What is the answer Rose?

You can Just add a link to the thread where I have been "told before"...

Or you can answer right here...

You obviously have an answer... Please share in your understanding....

But please stop 'running' around claiming I have had my questions answered when you are unable/ unwilling to provide an answer.. It's dishonest...

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Canuckus, That is the very first time I've seen you hesitate at putting words in other's mouths.

You have now extended your ever present concern for civility to yourself.

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

Will have to leave this one to Tucker... Can't put words in his mouth...

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Zemirah wrote:

Canuckus, That is the very first time I've seen you hesitate at putting words in other's mouths.

You have now extended your ever present concern for civility to yourself.

And I cannot recall a single time I have answered a question for another...

There is a difference between answering a general query and speaking for another...

Civility should be of great concern to all

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Canuckus, If you have studied the Tanakh, the Christian Bible and the Qur'an and believe they are all inspired by the same God, there is truly no one home.

Prayer to the God of the Bible would be my avenue, but unless you know who He is, tread softly, and apply some of that ever desirable civility to your search.

If you reach the demonic idol, Allah, he will cut "your head clean off" (to quote Clint Eastwood).

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

Will have to leave this one to Tucker... Can't put words in his mouth...

Rose42

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

Bizarre...

I have never once used the Jews as a justification for there being another path to God... No idea where you got that idea...

I have asked how Muslims not believing Christ is the son of God negates their worship in God if the Jews can deny it and still worship God...

What is the answer Rose?

Put a little effort in and look something up. The bible says there is one way to salvation- through Christ. Whether or not they accept Christ and are saved the Jews are still God’s chosen and will play an important part in the end times. It has been shown to you multiple times that the only covenant God made was with Israel.

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You can Just add a link to the thread where I have been "told before"...

Or you can answer right here...

You obviously have an answer... Please share in your understanding....

But please stop 'running' around claiming I have had my questions answered when you are unable/ unwilling to provide an answer.. It's dishonest...

Whats dishonest is you insisting you’ve never received answers to various questions when you have. Do you really want to know Christ? You need to answer this for yourself and no one else.

Again -
https://www.ligonier.org/blog/are-those-who-have-never-heard-christ-going-hell/

Another -
https://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.html

There is much more out there.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Rose42 wrote:

Put a little effort in and look something up. The bible says there is one way to salvation- through Christ. Whether or not the accept Christ and are saved the Jews are still God’s chosen and will play an important part in the end times. It has been ahown to youultiple times that the only covenant God made was with Isarael.

Are you incapable of understanding my question?
If the Jews can deny Christ and worship God (not be saved... Nobody is talking about whether or not they are saved..) Then Why can't Muslims (Once again Nobody is talking about being saved)???

This is the argument...

One side claims that denying Christ as God's son autamatically decrees that Muslims don't worship the God of Abraham...

The other side has pointed out that worship of God is not contingent on acceptance of Jesus as His son...

No one is discussing salvation...

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Rose42 wrote:

Whats dishonest is you insisting you’ve never received answers to various questions when you have. Do you really want to know Christ? You need to answer this for yourself and no one else.

Again -
https://www.ligonier.org/blog/are-those-who-have-never-heard-christ-going-hell/

Another -
https://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.html

There is much more out there.

I will read your links of course...

Though I suspect that they fail to answer the question (based on past links you have provided...)...

Rose42

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

I will read your links of course...

Though I suspect that they fail to answer the question (based on past links you have provided...)...

If you don’t understand that could be an unwillingness on your part to search for t***h. Been there done that, got the tshirt. You must seek with your whole heart.

“But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Cor 2:14

You need to examine whether you are in the faith as we all need to do continually - ‘yes in the faith is the correct phraseology.

“Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!”
2 Cor 13:5

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Rose42 wrote:

If you don’t understand that could be an unwilling... (show quote)

My apologies Rose...
I thought I had posted my response...
But it didn't go through...

This is the second link you provided...

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Question: "What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus?"

Yes... That is the question....

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Answer: All people are accountable to God whether ... (show quote)

So we are in agreement that God is revealed throughout the world... That is good....

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In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle—everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

So far we are in agreement...

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The problem is “there is no one who understands, n... (show quote)

No one seeks God?
Right.. Here we are in disagreement...

Off topic, but....
This appears to support my position concerning multiple paths to God...
"People are responsible to God for what God has already revealed to them."

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Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure they do hear.

A bit of a deflection here...
The topic is of course concerning those who have never heard of God.

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We are called to spread the gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). We know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature, and that must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only by accepting God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God.

Fair enough....
But we are not discussing whether or not we should spread the Gospel...
We are discussing what happens when someone never has the opportunity to hear the Gospel..
This doesn't help a native of the Amazonian rainforest... Which is of course my question..

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If we assume that those who never hear the gospel are granted mercy from God, we will run into a terrible problem.

Only if we assume there is only a single path to God.... Then the above mentioned premise would rock the very foundations of our belief....

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If people who never hear the gospel are saved, it is logical that we should make sure no one ever hears the gospel. The worst thing we could do would be to share the gospel with a person and have him or her reject it. If that were to happen, he or she would be condemned.

False premise....
Hearing the Gospel would simply bring an individual closer to God...

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People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism. Why run the risk of people possibly rejecting the gospel and condemning themselves when they were previously saved because they had never heard the gospel?

So... The take away is that God condemns any soul who has not heard ofJesus?
Am I reading this right?
Is this your position Rose?

If a young man grows up in the Amazonian rainforest, and never meets a single person who has knowledge of Jesus, then is mauled to death by a jaguar (Happens more often than you'd think..) will his soul be condemned to hell for all eternity?

If yes... How would God justify sending a soul to Earth that had no chance of ever attaining heaven? (remember...God is all-knowing...)