Doc110 Loc: York PA

Ms. Zemirah,

Firstly, "Factually try and prove what you say." Or you need to stop this anti-Catholic prejudicial Protestant bigotry.

Secondly, I want to start a new OPP Religious Post in this religious, spiritual Forum, so that all readers can see and observe the comments and dialogue is going on
My suggestion is get off this thread so lets start fresh and move this going forward.

Thirdly, here is the title of the OPP Religious Post thread. Is Roman Catholic Church occult/heathen "theology" Or Is the One True Catholic-Universal Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Fourthly, Im going to do this anyway without your permission or consent.

“To be deep in Church history, is to cease to be Protestant.”
Former Anglican, Catholic Cardinal Newman statement.


Ms. Zemirah, Here is the problem with your statement with me.

a. That because Protestant Bible believing Christians they ("Think" ?) they realize Roman Catholic occult/heathen "theology" ? That is the better question to ask.
Also you couldn't spell occultic correctly.

b. And where do you get this Anti-Catholic Protestant occult/heathen notion from ? "Chick-Flick's" or religious propaganda and Protestant innuendo and personal anti-Catholic
supposition's from ? You didn't back up your statement with any fact's, Fact's, FACT's, It's just a statement or comment just your personal prejudicious Protestant and religious
hateful Religiously bigoted diatribe, that you have routinely comment on, as well as; TexaCan, Jack sequim wa, karpenter, have done on this OPP Religious Forum.

Oh by the way Ms. Zemirah, I have two Religious Posts that you haven't commented on. TexaCan and karpenter have both been blocked again. Care to be the third ?
a. https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-141628-1.html
b. https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-141616-1.html

That's because they (TexaCan and karpenter) have this one pesky problem, they won't answer any of my questions.

Hummmm, Whats wrong here with this picture here. Are they being Protestant argumentative, undermining and are playing the Protestant ignorance game's ?

1. TexaCan, has total Biblical Church History ignorance. The Bible is 1,986 years of Biblical Church History. Duhhhhh, Hello, !!!!!!! What a stupid Religious defense.
2. karpenter insistence of not answering the 9 questions and being religiously evasive and changing the topic and argumentation to Mariology.
3. That both were being "religiously obtuse," being "religiously belligerent," being "religiously evasive," and just being anti-Catholic ignorant with having no facts.

c. The Catholic-Universal Church has been at the historical forefront of heresy and to various Christian fractional groups that spew forth their religious propaganda over 19
Centuries.
For example: 45 Major Heretical Movements Declared By The Early Christian Church And Medieval Heresies 33 - 1177 A.D. And I haven't even gotten to the reformation yet ?
a. https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-139945-1.html

d. And where do you get this other Protestant notion from. The Catholic Church is not from God or of God, but is the by-product of your own feverish imagination.


Ms. Zemirah, Please, . . . please, . . . tell me where you got these outlandish inconceivable bloviating Protestant idea's from facts about Catholic occult/heathen "theology

Are you up for my Catholic Faith challenge.

This is going to be so much fun, . . . with your opinions and Protestant facts that you can't defend. . . . .


I can't wait for your first, Protestant misinformation salvo and Protestant religious anti-Catholic statements.

Here is what is required of you, since you say that you are a Biblical Christian Believer, of a Protestant Faith.

Lets leave no stone unturned from your biased Protestant opinions.

Thats because I will verify the authenticity comments and reply.

So there will be no false religious responses;

Ms. Zemirah, Respond with facts, Facts, FACTs, no supposition's, no innuendo's, no exaggeration's of your own personal Protestant emotional belief's, no hypocritical truth's, or empty rhetoric devoid of any real factual of substance, and religious protestant nonsense that is full of regurgitated dendrite (Grey Mater Brain) compost opinions.

You figure out what regurgitated, compost means, TexaCan couldn't !


a. I want Authors names and titles,

b. I want books, Magazines and IBSN titles.

c. I want Website authors, and complete URL links titles

d. I want Protestant Pastors names and religious affiliations.


Just to say that Catholic occult/heathen theology is. That's because a comment does not make it so, Ms. Zemirah.

Just as in Supreme Court Conformation hearings for Judge Kavanaugh and his attempted rape by a woman who is a political play toy for the Democrats nothing can be substantiated.

Ms. Zemirah, Your only making an accusation and provide no facts, or anti-Catholic corroborating facts or truth to substantiate your allegations.


Let me give you some facts and advice and before you comment anymore on the Catholic Church, you better know your Ancient Church History up to the present day.

1. First of all tell me your religious history - background and present Protestant faith, or are you going to be disingenuous and avoid these facts like TexaCan, karpenter and JackJack
sequim wa ? What so top secret, be honest and up front

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Doc110,
In reply, you say you want facts. The Word of God is fact, scripture is fact and history of the Christian church and the Catholic church are facts.
In encountering cults such as The Church of Latter Day Saints or Mormon Church (which claims to be the only true church) when faced with scripture to reveal their fallacy, they counter from verses in "the book of Mormon" or outside of the scriptures. I should add it was proven irrefutable evidence that the book of Mormon that Joseph Smith claimed was given to him by the angel Moroni was proven to be a fictional book written by William Spalding. Joseph Smith stole the plagiarized work thus forming the cult of the Mormons.
http://solomonspalding.com/tanrpg/1977Tanr.htm

Why bring this up? Because using writings or history outside of scripture written by the Mormons has no credibility, just as writings by the Roman Catholic church outside of scripture has no credibility. "It's true because a Bishop or Cardinal did an exhaustive study doesn't cut it! What does God's word say, what do historians say? We know that Christian historians wrote down history but for credibility we also know secular historians also scribed history which aggrees with Christian historians, for example Josephus
http://answersingenesis.org/bible-history/is-josephus-reliable/

Doc110, in our past discourses you have typed pages and pages of insults in a questionable spirited way when only a position, belief or view was presented you, free of insults to you.
Only once have you given a direct answer free a dozens of pages of cut and paste but only after asking repeatedly.
As you expect answers to your questions you posted, I will answer everyone of your questions and free of personal insults.
I will prove using scripture and the Roman Catholics own writings and document why the Catholic church is false a heretic misleading millions of people.
To regress, I also have posted pictures of pagan symbols that can be viewed on Catholic sites, in fact that were they came from and you only insulted, but never replied to the truth and facts of pagan and demonic symbols. How is it or could you call me attacking the Catholic church, how can you call it Protestant compost when you can't prove me wrong but can only present a strawman argument? Rhetorical....

So here goes and using your own demands, I only expect a personal reply and not a Catholic apologetics cut and paste or link to the same. Use scripture, God's written word....

Is the Catholic Church God's true Church and Peter the first Pope?

It grieves me to be adding this page to the Opp site but constant Post from Doc110, Catholics because of the Catholic Version of the Ten Commandments have made this necessary. It has become common to receive replies like the one given below and then calling us erroneous. while not giving a response so that they cannot be replied to. This does not represent good Christian values and integrity by any means. As a result I have had no choice but to supply the following information that proves that the Roman Catholic Church is not God's true Church and that Peter was not the so called first Pope with supremacy above the other Apostles.

Typical post /reply in error: “Who gave you authority to interpret scripture? Matthew 16:18 says "you are Peter and upon this rock I will build MY Church" He didn't say a Church, many churches, multiple Churches. He said my Church. This Church can historically (in secular books as well as Christian) be traced back to Jesus Christ. Peter was our first Pope and today Benedict XVI is the Pope. He is not an Idol as we don't worship him. He is our spiritual father.”

Does everyone remember what happened when Pope John died? Literally millions of people lined up for days to look upon a dead Pope. Never before has the world seen one man get so much worship let alone a dead man. It dominated television for weeks and got the attention of the entire world. Isn't the Pope the only religious person that the President of the United States has ever bowed down too and kneeled before? No man should be worshipped. The Oxford dictionary defines an idol as: “An image used as an object of worship. A person or thing that is the object of excessive devotion.” I would have to respectfully disagree and say that the Pope is definitely worshipped.

Holy Father is a title that the Pope claims for himself. However, this title occurs only once in the Bible and was used when Jesus addressed His Heavenly Father in John 17:11 in His great prayer before His betrayal, arrest and crucifixion. It is blasphemy for any man to claim this title for himself. It belongs only to God the Father. Father is also a title that every Roman Catholic priest claims for himself and expects to be called. Jesus warns in Matthew 23:9 “Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your father which is in heaven.” So is it wrong to call your earthly parent “father”? No, because in Romans 4:1 “Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?” God refers to Abraham as “our father pertaining to the flesh” which is an acceptable usage. Obviously the Roman priest is not your physical father but claims to be a “spiritual father” and what God forbids.

So who gave us and the rest of the world the authority to interpret scripture? God did through His Word. The Papacy say only they can interpret scripture but one might ask them the same question. Who gave them the authority to interpret scripture? They will reply, “Because Peter was the first pope and was given supremacy over the other apostles.” This has one very serious problem. To establish this premise, one has to interpret scripture, but if that interpretation of scripture is wrong, then their whole argument is worthless. Every other denomination in the entire world say they have it wrong and this alone should make Catholics investigate this further. Does one put their trust in God or man? We find the answer to this question exactly in the middle of the Bible. Psalms 118:8 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.”

Observe how we find the Bereans being called NOBLE as they examined the scriptures daily to see if what they were told was true. Paul wrote most of the New Testament, yet we find these Noble Christians even investigating if what Paul told them is correct. This is how all Christians should be towards any teacher of the Word and we would have way less heresy if everyone always did. It is because most Catholics do not do this that so many good Catholic people have been led astray.

Acts 17:11 “Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”

The inspired author here exhorts that we should examine the scriptures daily to see if what we are told is true but the Catholic Church without Biblical authority say no. The Roman Catholic Church has a history of burning Bibles and when it could not stop Bibles from being printed, it denied anti-catholic scriptures by saying “that's your interpretation”, meaning that the Bible has no authority if anyone can interpret it in any manner. They now allow Catholics to read the Bible but teach that it is wrong and sinful to put any interpretation on scriptures that is contrary to Roman Catholic doctrine. In other words, don't think for yourself and just trust Rome. You may discover that Catholic doctrine is full of error and contradictions but just blindly accept everything Rome tells you. They also say that their authority is ABOVE scripture. The problem is that God did not give them or anyone else that authority. As for me and my family, we take our instruction from our Heavenly Father and not the Church of Rome just because they say so! Contrary to what they may believe, they are NOT God. Here is one of many quotes from the Papal Church where they state their authority is above scripture.

“The authority of the Church is illustrated most clearly by the scriptures, for on one hand she recommends them, declares them to be divine, and offers them to us to be read, and on the other hand, the legal precepts in the scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by virtue of the same authority. The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord's day. These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ's teaching (for He says that He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have been changed by the authority of the Church.” — Gaspare de Posso, Archbishop of Reggio, Council of Trent.

I have also had a Catholic say we cannot interpret scripture because of 2 Peter 1:20-21 and that this applies not just to prophecy but all scripture. And how did they arrive at this wrong conclusion? By doing what they just said we cannot do. By interpreting scripture! Yet another strategy to stop good Catholic Christians from finding out they are being taught error. Here is the correct meaning of 2 Peter 1:20-21. Many faithful Catholics have become imprisoned in this system because they are not allowed to say anything contrary to what their Church teaches. If any Catholic said they were teaching error several decades ago, they were called a heretic, tortured and burnt at the stake as per Catholic Church law and this was done to countless millions of good Catholic Christian saints. As for all the Catholics innocently caught up in this system, do you really believe this is from God?

The prophetic book of revelation is a stumbling block for many when it comes to interpreting scripture but in this book we find Jesus exhorting that we are blessed if we READ and understand what is written within. This of course requires us to read and interpret the most difficult of scripture that is especially required for end times, and this is what is strongly recommended by our Lord and Saviour Himself. The authority for us to interpret scripture and prophecy does not get higher then this.

Revelation 1:3 “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”

Paul also says the opposite to the Roman Catholic Church in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, (not by the Roman Catholic Church) and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, (or complete) thoroughly furnished unto all good works

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Continued 2

Is the Roman Catholic Church God's true Church?
We have been told that the Roman Catholic Church was God's true Church from the beginning yet we find that scripture and history tells us exactly the opposite. This following scripture is targeted at the Church of Rome in regards to their rules on marriage and what you cannot eat on certain days. The Catholic Church have maintained this practise from the beginning and the Word of God calls the Church of Rome here hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

1 Timothy 4:2-3 “Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.”

A note about and for Roman Catholics
My humble apologies to all Catholics but genuine love demands the identification of the antichrist power so that no honest person will be deceived, for eternity is at stake. While identifying the Roman Catholic Church as the antichrist power, we hasten to remind all sincere Christians that many of Christ's true followers are still members of this Church. They are unaware of the great deception under which they worship. The Saviour died for them as well as people of all other faiths. The present is surely the time for love to be expressed in sincere action as these precious saints are called out of apostasy into the light of God's saving truth.

John's letters reveal to us that the Biblical definition of Antichrist does not just mean against Christ but more specifically in place of Christ, and this is something that every Pope does as he claims to be God on earth. Note their following quotes which John 10:33 says is blasphemy.

“We hold upon this earth the place of God almighty.” — Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter, June 20, 1894.
“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of human flesh.” — Catholic National, July 1895.
“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” — Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous.”

John also informs us in the following two verses that anyone who claims Jesus did not come in flesh such as the Roman Catholic Church do when they claim that Jesus took on Mary's sinless nature and her flesh, are Antichrist. There is no doubt who John is referring to here.

1 John 4:3 “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
2 John 1:7 “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

Note also another Roman Catholic Church error as Mary is NOT sinless and acknowledges that she is a sinner by calling God her Saviour. Remember that only a sinner needs a Saviour. “My spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:47 We also find “For ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23 and “There is none righteous, no not one.” Romans 3:10.

If the above two scriptures in John's letters are referring to the Church of Rome, then we may also find John telling us that they WERE originally part of the early Church but they would no longer be so if they began to apostatize by such behaviour. So did John say that antichrist was part of God's first and true Church that John and the others apostles started but left and went out on their own and were no longer part of the original Church? Again there is no doubt. So the Church of Rome was certainly around from the beginning but they apostatized and went out on their own and is what John called antichrist.

1 John 2:18-19 “Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there MANY antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from US, but they were not of US; for if they had been of US, they would no doubt have continued with US: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of US.”

So what happened to God's true Church and why do we find that the Roman Catholic Church became the one and only VISIBLE Church for many hundreds of years? And was this the will of God or did this happen by other means? History and the Bible inform us that God's true Church had to flee into the wilderness to survive as the Roman Catholic Church relentlessly pursued it with the intent on murdering and torturing it out of existence. Millions of innocent saints died! So how did the Catholic Church become so rich and powerful and the one visible Church for so long? By force! By the death of anyone that stood in their way. God's true Church was almost murdered out of existence and Revelation informs us that His true Church did have to flea into the wilderness for 1260 years (known as the dark ages) to survive exactly as it happened in history. The Roman Catholic Church is certainly mentioned many times in the Bible but not as God's true Church but as a murderous and blasphemous, Apostate Church that changed the law of God and one that God is going to pour out plagues upon in the end times to destroy her for all her murderous crimes and false doctrines. So is the Catholic Church God's true Church? Not a chance and also not according to all the following brilliant people. Are they right? Most definitely! Read who or what is the Antichrist for the Biblical and historical proof.

All these following people knew that the Papal Church is the little horn of Daniel 7, which is synonymous with the antichrist beast power of Revelation 13, and many of them died by the hand of the Roman Catholic Church. “John Wycliffe, William Tyndale (translated the Bible - Tyndale Bible), Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer; in the seventeenth century, Bunyan, the translators of the King James Bible and the men who published the Westminster and Baptist confessions of Faith; Sir Isaac Newton, John Wesley, Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards; and more recently Spurgeon, Bishop J.C. Ryle and Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones; these men among countless others, all saw the office of the Papacy as the antichrist.” — All Roads Lead to Rome, by Michael de Semlyen. Dorchestor House Publications, p. 205. 1991.

It is because of what all these people discovered that we had what was called the Protestant reformation as many good people protested against what the Roman Catholic Church was doing and this is why we now have so many different Protestant Churches today. It came about as a result of much persecution and suffering from a Church that claims to be God's true Church. I hope one can already see that this is a long way from the real truth. There are bound to be those who will either not understand or refuse to believe that the Catholic Church is antichrist that enforces the mark of the beast and an Apostate Church that God is going to destroy in the end so let's continue.

All Roman Catholics should ask themselves does God approve of murder, homosexuality, rape, adultery and drunkenness to just state a few. My Bible says that no such person will inherit the kingdom of God. If one believes that these things are acceptable to God then one is wasting there time here as that just defeats the whole purpose of Christianity.

Many Popes have been labelled the most evil men in history
More than fifty Popes have shown themselves to be atheists or unbelievers. The history of the Popes records homosexuality, rape, murder, adultery, incest, drunkenness and selling religious offices and much more. The following examples are just scratching the surface as many of the Popes have been labelled as the most EVIL people in all history. To list all of the crimes from all the Popes in brief would be a list ten times bigger then this page. There is no way God would have this as His true Church. God flooded the Earth destroying all but eight people for far less then the atrocities of these Popes.

1)Pope Damasus I (366 - 384) for many various crimes. Persons who questioned any Church doctrine had their lands seized and family sacrificed through being tortured and burnt alive. Former female priests and their children were used as sex slaves to provide income for the Church. He was found guilty by 44 bishops of adultery but used his position to obstruct justice after which he murdered the bishops.
2)Pope Stephen VI (896 - 897) brought the dead body of former Pope Formosus (891 - 897) to trial, hacked off his decaying finger and had him dragged through the streets of Rome and thrown into the Tiber River.
3)Pope Sergius III (904 - 911) obtained his office by murder. He fathered several illegitimate children by Marozia who assassinated Pope Leo VI (928 - 929), and put her own teenage son (John XI) as Pope.
4)Pope John XII (955 - 964) is described in the Catholic encyclopaedia as a coarse, immoral man. The Catholic collection of the lives of the Popes, the “Liber Pontificalis” said: “He spent his entire life in adultery.” Catholic bishop Luitprand states that “he had no respect for single girls, married woman or widows - they were sure to be defiled by him.”
5)Pope Boniface VII (984 - 985) John XII and Leo VIII were described by the Bishop of Orleans as “monsters of guilt, reeking in blood and filth.”
6)Pope John XV (985 - 996) split the Churches finances among his relatives and was described as “covetous of filthy lucre and corrupt in all his acts.”
7)Pope Benedict IX (1033 - 1045) committed murders and adulteries in broad daylight, robbed pilgrims and was regarded as a hideous criminal. The people drove him out of Rome: The Catholic encyclopaedia says, “He was a disgrace to the chair of Peter.”
8)Pope Urban II (1088-1099) for many crimes against humanity. His worst was during 1096-1099 where approximately 10,000,000 innocent men, women and especially children were murdered and their property stolen under the legal approval of Pope “Blessed” Urban II. The wholesale slaughter of innocent people was for nothing more than greed which included Belgrade (1096), the chief city of Orthodox Church after Constantinople, Yugoslavia (1096), Turkey, Syria, Antioch (1098) and Palestine.
9)Pope Adrian IV (1154-1159) receiving profits from crime. England Monarchs paid the Roman Catholic Church an annual fee for the “legal” and perpetual enslavement of Ireland by Papal Bull Laudabiliter until the time of Henry VIII.
9)Pope Alexander III decreed in 1170 that wills had to be made in front of a priest, or excommunication (cutting off from Church and sentence to hell) would result.
10)Pope Innocent III (1198 - 1216) promoted the Inquisition, surpassing all his predecessors in killing over one million people.
11)Pope Boniface VIII (1294 - 1303) The Catholic encyclopaedia states, “Scarcely any possible crime was omitted - heresy, gross and unnatural immorality, idolatry, magic, simony ... his whole pontificate was one record of evil.” Dante visited Rome and described the Vatican as a “sewer of corruption” and assigned Boniface VII, Nicholas III and Clement V to the “lowest parts of hell.” He proposed to be an atheist and in 1302 issued the “Unum Sanctum” officially declaring the Roman Catholic Church as the only true Church, outside of which on one can be saved.
12)Pope John XXIII (1410 - 1415) was accused by 37 clergy witnesses of fornication, adultery, incest, sodomy, simony, theft and murder. It was proved by a legion of witnesses that he had seduced and violated 300 nuns. He kept a harem at Boulogne of 200 girls. He was publicly called the devil incarnate. He has been called the most depraved criminal who ever sat on the papal throne.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Continued 3

14)Pope Eugene IV (1431 - 1447) condemned Joan of Arc to be burned alive as a witch, but Pope Benedict IV (1919) declared her a saint.
15)Pope Pius II (1458 - 1464) fathered many illegitimate children and taught others to do likewise.
16)Pope Paul II (1464 - 1471) maintained a house full of concubines.
Pope Sixtus IV (1471 - 1484) financed his wars by selling Church offices to the highest bidders.
17)Pope Innocent VII (1484 - 1492) fathered 16 illegitimate children by various women.
18)Pope Alexander VI (1492 - 1503) committed incest with his two sisters and daughter. On October 31, 1501 he conducted the worst ever sex orgy in the Vatican.
19)Pope Paul III (1534 - 1549) as a cardinal fathered three sons and a daughter and sought advice from astrologers.
20)Pope Leo X (1513 - 1521) the Catholic encyclopaedia says “was possessed by an insatiable love of pleasure, revelry and carousing.” Luther visited Rome and said: “No one can imagine what sins and infamous actions are committed in Rome.” A saying was: “If there is a hell, Rome is built over it.”
Pope Joan was a female Pope whose name was changed later to Pope Zacharias. Luther, on visiting Rome reported her statue in a back street, and John Huss referred to her in his defence as the Council of Constance and this went unchallenged. She died in childbirth while in a public procession.
21)Pope Pius IX (1846-1878) for many crimes including political assassination. Pope Pius IX did authorize the funding and mission that resulted in the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln on April 15, 1865.
22)Pope Pius XII (1939-1958) of the single greatest crime against humanity in the history of all humanity (1939-1945). He handed to Hitler and Himmler a complete blueprint for the systematic elimination of key non-Catholic minorities across Europe as well as the establishment of death camps for their murder. He instructed that ethnic Jews and other heretics were not simply to be murdered but ritually sacrificed by being burnt alive, consistent with their Church law on the penalty of heresy. See quotes further below. He aided and abetted known war criminals (1946) such as personally ensuring the safety and escape of Ante Pavelic who was head of one of the most brutal and satanistic regimes in human history called the Croatian Ustashi. The Catholic Ustashi murdered at least 600,000 people in ways that can only be described as purely satanic including ritualistic cannibalism, crucifixion, live dismemberment, burning alive and excessive torture.
The “great schism” of 1378 lasted 50 years, where Italian and French Popes cursed each other. Is this the same morally pure Church that Christ left to preach the gospel? When confronted with such evil papal history, the Catholic Church, which claims “infallibility”, teaches that “A sinful Pope ... remains a member of the Church, and ... from whom we may not withdraw obedience.” Catholic encyclopaedia Volume 4 page 435.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:18, 20 “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit ... by their fruits ye shall know them.”

The following quote is the response from the Papal Church in regards to all the evil things that the Popes have done over the centuries. How could any man believe that we honour Christ with evil or obeying Satan or Satanic people. This makes a total mockery of Christianity and all that it represents.

“Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.” — St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”)

So is this truly the sort of Church that God instituted? Or does the Bible show that God cannot accept sin and why He sent His Son to die for us? The only other alternative for God would be to abolish His law from the beginning so there would be no need for a Saviour. Murder and chaos could run rampant all over planet Earth and God could just sit back and smile and say, no problem! What do you think? The Catholic Church believe they have this authority and can change the Ten Commandment law of God. So perhaps they can explain why God did not save His beloved Son by saying to Adam and Eve in the beginning, “you can change my Ten Commandment law and then you can do whatever you want and sin and chaos can reign and I will not have to send my son to die for the world. After all, sin is the breaking of my Ten Commandment law (1 John 3:4) but if you change my law then you will have no need of a Saviour.” Who would want to live in a lawless world and worship a loveless God? The fact is our God of love cannot tolerate sin and no man can change the laws of the Creator that define what sin is! If this were true then the Papal Church could have abolished God's law and just done whatever they wanted. I suppose they have already done this to a large degree anyway since they claim infallibility and believe they have the right to murder and torture anyone who does not accept their doctrine. This is still happening in some areas of the world even today where they can get away with it and it was done on a large scale as little as 60 years ago.

There is an enormous amount in the Old Testament about Israel profaning God's Sabbath day and this is one of the main reasons that God let Israel go into Babylonian captivity. God also said even before the giving of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 16 that if we don't keep THE seventh day then we ARE NOT obeying any of His Commandments. There is so much on this and how important this day is to God and the amount God cares cannot be missed for anyone looking, yet we are supposed to think that suddenly God does not care anymore and we can just change this day and His laws and make any new Church rule that we want. This just becomes yet another means for Christians to avoid a special Commandment that defines that it is God we love and give our allegiance to. This is the only reason we have a seven day week. Move the day and we may as well have a six day week, which would represent man and his rebellion. Seven is God's number of perfection and completeness.

The Catholic Church has much to be embarrassed about as seen from the above history on the Popes but it does not stop there. So openly corrupt was the Catholic Church that many noble people left in protest looking to Jesus Christ for salvation and to the Bible for truth while rejecting the false claims of the Popes. These were called heretics and bitterly opposed and tortured by the Roman Catholic Church. Here are some quotes from the Catholic Church on what they say should be done to what they define as a heretic. Would God really approve of this? Not a chance! Not even the majority of the secular world would accept this.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Before you keep on piling on Jack,

Give me some time to catch up with you.

Firstly I have to deal withe 5 horseman of the Protestant apocalypse.

They haven't brought any thing new to protestant anti-Catholic table except the typical conjecture and usual diatribe whining and complaining about the Catholic Church.

So before we go any further, you have to tell me your Protestant affiliation, how long you have been with this Protestant church.

And do you have any seminarian background, or am I speaking to a lay person.

If we are going to have a discussion it will be on equal footing.

You don't get to sandbag me as in the past few Religious OPP post articles

There will be no more fallacy arguments, do you understand ?

I will not stand for the continual bantering as with your your last post.

Do you understand ?

And your facts and URL internet web links will also be scrutinized for accuracy.

Do you agree to the terms of this arrangement.

It's either Yes or No,

Or we go our separate ways.

Do you understand, their will be no more Religious disingenuousness.

I will not tolerate it.

First of all stop calling the Catholic Church a cult

Do you know who Hilaire Belloc is He wrote about cults and practices

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Doctrine/heresy.HTM

Do some reading, and stop sandbagging the conversation will you Jack.

For peat sake this anti-Catholicism is really been building up in side of you,

Fallacies and sandbagging your opponent is very Christian wrong Jack.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Continued 4

efinition of a heretic
“Heretics (those who are not members of the Catholic Church or who do not hold to Catholic doctrine) worship a God who is a liar, and a Christ who is a liar.” — St. Augustine, (quoted in “Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca”, by Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 42:207).

And this what they say should be done to heretics
“When confronted with heresy, she (Catholic Church) does not content herself with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture.” — The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism, p 182-183.
“The church may by divine right confiscate the property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out.” Public Eccliastical, Vol. 2, p.142.
“A heretic merits the pains of fire....By the Gospel, the canons, civil law, and custom, heretics must be burned.” — The American Textbook of Popery, p 164 (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).
“The (Catholic) Church is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them....Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.” — St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III, (quoted in article “The Perennial Understanding of the Church”, by Saint Benedict Center).

So how do you feel about torture? How many people in the world would say torture is acceptable in secular society yet alone a Church? These are certainly things that the evil powers of this world have done but to have this done by a Church is just beyond belief yet alone by one claiming to be God's true Church. The Catholic Church did not become the world's biggest Church by God's will but by the death and torture and horrific pain and suffering of millions of innocent Christians. This is the real truth on how the Catholic Church came to be so big and powerful. It was by the blood of millions and below are just a few scriptures that could be quoted that are referring to the blood of millions of innocent Christian saints that the Roman Catholic Church shed. For those who are not aware, a woman when used symbolically in the Bible represents a Church as the Church is the bride of Christ. The Catholic Church knows this also and is why she refers to HERSELF as SHE and HER etc as does God. Note also their following quote.

“The Catholic Church alone, then, Christ calls His Spouse. The Church, therefore, is one; this cannot be said amongst any of those who are heretics or schismatics. The churches of every one of the heretics is prostituted; they are churches which Christ repudiates as unnecessary, since He is the Spouse of One Church.” — St. Optatus of Milevis, “Schism of the Donatists,” Book I, no's. 6, 10; LAF, vol. II; PL 11; CSL, vol. XXVI, Vienna: 1893; FOC, p.158, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: “The Book of Christians”, Chapter 2: “Those Who Reject Christ's Church Are Anti-Christian”).

Revelation 16:4-6 “And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, You are righteous, O Lord, which are, and were, and shall be, because you have judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.”
Revelation 18:24 “And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”
Revelation 19:1-2 “And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he has judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and has avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.”
Revelation 17:5-6 “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman [Church] drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.”

When Israel committed spiritual adultery, God called His Church a “WHORISH WOMAN”, a “HARLOT” and a “WHORE” and accused her of “ADULTERY” and “FORNICATION.” See Ezekiel 16:26-32, Jeremiah 3:1-25. The Catholic Church is guilty of much worse than Israel. In a recent address to the nations, Pope Benedict caused a major uproar among many Churches as he referred to the Catholic Church as being the “MOTHER” Church and called for all the daughter Churches to come back to HER. A large percentage of the Churches today are called daughter Churches because they originally came from the Catholic Church. Sadly, many of the daughter Churches have also ignorantly inherited various false doctrines and this is why SHE is called the “MOTHER OF HARLOTS” and is mystery Babylon. See also the origin of Babylon and sun worship.

Revelation 17:1-6 “I will show unto you the judgment of the great whore [God calls an idolatrous Church a HARLOT and a WHORE and guilty of adultery and fornication:Ezekiel 16:26-32, Jeremiah 3:1-25] that sitteth upon many waters [symbolic of how literal Babylon was built over water:Revelation 17:15]: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication [false doctrines]. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman [Church:Scriptures] sit upon a scarlet [Sin:Isaiah 1:18 sinful because she changed God's law that defines sin] coloured beast [Kingdom:Daniel 7:17; 7:23], full of names of blasphemy [she has many blasphemous practices], having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman [Church] was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold [official Vatican colours, OT Priest robes ALSO had blue which represents God's law:Exodus 28:4-6; Numbers 15:38-40] and precious stones and pearls, [Vatican is filthy rich] having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, [very few understand what originated from this mystery Babylonian religion and where many of the traditions of the Catholic religion really started] BABYLON [God calls her Babylon because her paganism originated from literal Babylon See the origin of 666 for why God calls the Catholic Church Babylon] THE GREAT, THE MOTHER [Catholic Church calls herself the Mother Church] OF HARLOTS [many Churches came from her and ignorantly took on her pagan idolatrous practices] AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH [she is guilty of the most abominable crimes]. 6 And I saw the woman [Church] drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: [The Catholic Church murdered and tortured over 68,000,000 Christian saints].”

Pope Innocent IV in 1252 approved torture and ordered civil authorities to burn “heretics” in the “Ad exstirpanda” Bull. This torture was reinforced by Popes Alexander IV, Clement IV, Nicholas IV, Boniface VIII and others from 1254 - 1303. An artistic representation of the medieval Inquisition, showing torture occurring during an auto de fe (circa 1495)Roman Catholic documents revealed that they murdered around 68,000,000 protesters from 1100 to 1800 AD when the Inquisition stopped. If this were what our God would approve of then I for one would not want anything to do with such a God. I thank my God that he is one of love and mercy that sent His son to die for me so I could have forgiveness for breaking His Ten Commandment law. The following torture devices were used against what they called heretics:

Heavy pincers tore out fingernails
The rack which stretched and dislocated joints
Thumbscrews dislocated fingers
Molten lead poured into ears and mouth
Hanging
“Spanish boots” crushed legs and feet
The Iron virgin was a hollow metal case with knives inside, which pierced the victim placed in it
Eyes gouged out
Being forced to jump off cliffs onto sharp spikes below
100,000 Albigenses (Protestants) were massacred in one day in 1211, then burned in heaps
Pope Pius IV sent the Italian army to massacre many women and children at Orange in 1562
Galileo was sent to a dungeon and publicly flogged because he believed that the earth moved around the sun. On 22 June 1663, Galileo had to fall on his knees to escape the cruel death ordered by Pope Urban VIII and sign a retraction “I abjure, curse and detest the error and heresy of the earth moving around the sun ... it is absurd, false and erroneous.”
10,000 Huguenots (French Protestants) were killed in Paris on St Bartholomew's Day and 75,000 the week after. The Huguenot wars killed 200,000 Protestants
The “30 Years War” in Germany saw the population drop from 15 million to 5 million due to Catholic invading armies killing 900,000 protestants
The Spanish Armada was sent to conquer Protestant England by Catholic King Philip of Spain. “Bad weather” destroyed this fleet off the coast of England. The inquisition was ordered by Papal decree and confirmed by Pope after Pope. Why did no Pope stop the inquisition torture? Jesus said “turn the other cheek”, “love and forgive our enemies”, and “do good to them that despitefully use us.” Was the Roman Church acting like Jesus Christ here?
Truly, the Roman Church is “drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.” Revelation 17:6
Whenever Rome is refuted by a Bible verse, they reply: “That's just your interpretation”, meaning that no one can really interpret the Bible, so leave it up to Rome to be the authority rather than the Bible. It is a device to wrest authority from the Bible to Rome.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Jack stop this ridiculous sand-bagging right now

Im really pissed,

I can do the same thing to you as in the past

I hate pertinent assh--es

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Continued 5

from the Bible to Rome.

Was Peter the first Pope?
The whole structure of the Roman Church is built on the assumption that in Matthew 16:13-19, Christ appointed Peter to be the first Pope and so established the Papacy. If we destroy the Papacy of Peter, the foundation of the Papacy is destroyed along with the whole Roman hierarchy. Roman Catholicism claims several false doctrines from this passage:

Peter is the first Pope with special spiritual supremacy over the Church
This same spiritual authority has always resided in the Popes of Rome as being Peters successors (This idea is nowhere mentioned in Scripture)
Christ built his Church on Peter. This is contrary to God's Word which says: “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus.” 1 Corinthians 3:11
Christ gave Peter keys to admit into heaven only those who came through the Roman Catholic Church
Those not coming through the Roman Church would be bound in sin and unable to enter heaven
Catholicism is saying that salvation is not in Christ but in Peter as the first of a succession of Popes. Peter is NOT the first Pope with supremacy over the Church because of these two reasons just to begin with:

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Jack you just crossed the line

Radiance3

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Are the words "CULT AND PAGAN" Catholic Church, the words of God? Did Jesus say this?
Those were the most potent "toxic" words that exploded into the air. Do you claim it from God?
You have a toxic mouth Jack.

Ah..., you guys are not even members of Christ's body. John 6.53, you are not part of him.

Radiance3

==============
You can proclaim your church at the rooftops also. And join these multi-millionaires and billionaires instead of assaulting the Catholic Church. How nice? Here they are hypocrites.
http://www.dailyspikes.com/richest-pastors/

Radiance3

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Prove to me that those allegations of yours are carried on until now? Just go on protesting.
Your Church is not a member of the Body of Christ.

Radiance3

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Jack, yours are such massive and blatant accusations to the Catholic Church. Don’t you know that during the early days, all the people behaved like that? From the ancient Jewish tribes, how did people live? You know, they are all in the Old Testament. How did the Jews punish their accused? They crucify. They were so much behind in civilization. All over the world was like that, very CRUDE.

Likewise, all over Europe that was how lives were conducted. We are all human beings. And as times evolved, Europe was the first among the world who’d advanced, and improved their human behavior. Punishment before Europe was uncivilized and were very cruel.

Even here in the US during the early history of our system was cruel. The punishment for the accused were so cruel. But later, as time evolved, we became more civilized knowing the rights from the wrongs. Thus, we are now civilized and do civil things to others.

That is how we must behave now. Not a reminisce of those ancient crude history devoid of civilization. All behaved like that in the past. Not only Catholics.

So, for you throwing all those history of uncivilized world to Catholics alone, is not right and just. All the people in the past had practiced like that. That was how they lived.

Now, the Catholic Church had perfected the teachings of Christ. Although errors may occur because we are all human beings subject to failures. We strive, we pray, we learn, until everything is perfected.

I think your church does that too. Attacking each other is not a solution. It is a prelude to isolation, hatred, and bitterness. It is not of God's. Thank you.

Radiance3

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You have a very evil mind and heart Jack. As you speak the Scriptures, you are right there violating it. Your evil actions speak louder than your mouth.

I have never seen this vile and evil person all my life. Is that the way how you feel happy?
I think you are never a happy person in your life. Your actions tell me.