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Abortion is a non-issue for Christians, a totally made up sham by the Moral Majority for power and influence
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Apr 21, 2017 12:12:23   #
Armagh
 
Dr.Dross wrote:
With a proviso: not in the last tri-mester. If an abortion is necessary in that period to save the life of the mother, all efforts should be extended to do so. Church ruling.

Nearly 2000 years of Church doctrine and hardly a word to say on abortion but that it was okay up to the third tri-mester. The Bible has only one--only one--direct reference to abortion, and it supports that life begins at around 27 months. Not before! Not at conception! For the Church for nearly 2 millennium life begins at around twenty-eight months. Yet over 3000 verses for social justice in the Bible are routinely ignored for the preposterous stance on abortion to be prominent among Christian concerns. As once was inter-racial marriage.

Killing a fetus prior to the 29th or thirtieth week was never considered murder by the Church since its start and up until the Moral Majority in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
With a proviso: not in the last tri-mester. If an ... (show quote)


What church?

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Apr 22, 2017 20:07:00   #
Dr.Dross
 
jSmitty45 wrote:
Only God has the right to take a life. I pray you will come to know that God sent his son to die for you. Hopefully, he will open your eyes to the truth.


So, if "only God has the right to take a life," is he responsible for all those "abortions" by carriage? If God is truly in control, who else to blame? How is God "killing" a fetus righteous? Could he not use people to carry out his plan in other abortions?

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Apr 22, 2017 20:10:05   #
Dr.Dross
 
lpnmajor wrote:
It has always been an inconsistent stance. When I challenge anti abortionists about their lack of concern for children AFTER they're born, they fall back to the standard dogma of " protecting the helpless/innocent ", which I counter with - how old does a child have to be before it is no longer helpless and/or when does a child lose it's innocence? They never have an answer, because they've never thought about it, at all - they're just responding as programed.


Or about war and capital punishment: not on their pro-life list?

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Apr 22, 2017 20:12:21   #
Dr.Dross
 
jSmitty45 wrote:
If I kill someone, I am a murderer. Regardless of whether I am protecting my life or home. I will have to face the consequences. I would have to ask God to forgive me. That shalt not murder. I would still try to protect my loved ones, as I am sure anyone else would do as well, doesn't mean I am right.
I would be extremely upset if I had to do that, but would you let someone hurt you without trying to protect yourself?
I say abortion is wrong. If you don't want that child, then either abstain or use protection. Why get pregnant just because you know you are going to abort that precious life. God is the giver of life. There are too many just getting pregnant to have the government take care of them. Look around, you will see these young women, no husband, but collecting aid for each child, food stamps. We are paying for that out of our taxes. Don't get pregnant, to begin with.
If I kill someone, I am a murderer. Regardless of ... (show quote)


The Bible does not recognize a fetus in the first two trimesters as "someone."

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Apr 22, 2017 20:14:44   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Dr.Dross wrote:
So, if "only God has the right to take a life," is he responsible for all those "abortions" by carriage? If God is truly in control, who else to blame? How is God "killing" a fetus righteous? Could he not use people to carry out his plan in other abortions?


You're saying people kill babies to help God... Well that's stupid.

I guess Hitler was just doing God's work helping him kill Jews and other people.

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Apr 22, 2017 20:17:19   #
Dr.Dross
 
JFlorio wrote:
In Exodus 21:22 God gives a specific law regarding social order for the Israelites. He stated that if two men were fighting and hit a pregnant woman, thus causing her to give birth prematurely, they must be fined according to any damage done to the baby. The fine must be paid in relation to the amount of damage inflicted upon the child. If God would make a law specifically referring to the rights of the unborn, then surely the unborn must mean something to Him!

It has been stated, “If the womb had windows, there would be no abortion.” As humans, we are not omnipresent and cannot know the full scope of what each human life is worth. We cannot dwell in the womb with a fetus, nor can we see it as it matures. But God can.
In Exodus 21:22 God gives a specific law regarding... (show quote)


I may have answered this already but Exodus21:22 favors first two trimester abortion, if not it would be an "eye for eye" and thus death for the offender and not just a fine was in order.

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Apr 22, 2017 20:22:50   #
Dr.Dross
 
Ve'hoe wrote:
no,,, murder is not the same as killing,, as in defense or at war.... and the bible doesnt say it is.


Go to the cities, towns, villages, and countryside and comfort the survivors of war by telling them their loved ones were not murdered but merely killed. Sure, most were innocent, which should make it murder, yet we grant a special dispensation for political and economic concerns. "Get over it."

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Apr 22, 2017 20:25:09   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Dr.Dross wrote:
I may have answered this already but Exodus21:22 favors first two trimester abortion, if not it would be an "eye for eye" and thus death for the offender and not just a fine was in order.


◄ Exodus 21:22 ►

New International Version
"If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
********

Is this why you keep referring to a passage that you don't post?

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Apr 22, 2017 20:26:12   #
Dr.Dross
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
You want to burn down Christian churches, have at it, but don't use the Word of God as a weapon against Christians. Freaking reprobate.

Psalm 139:13–16

For You formed my inward parts:
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

Psalm 22:9-10

Yet You brought me out of the womb; You made me trust in You even at my mother's breast. From birth I was cast upon You; from my mother's womb You have been my God.

Jeremiah 1:4–5

Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Exodus 21:22–24

If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot ..

Job 31:15

Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

Isaiah 44:2

This is what the LORD says--He who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you

Isaiah 49:5

And now the LORD says--he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD and my God has been my strength.
You want to burn down Christian churches, have at ... (show quote)


All those verses say nothing against abortion, yet Exodus21:22 makes a case for abortion within the first two trimesters.

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Apr 22, 2017 20:29:03   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Dr.Dross wrote:
All those verses say nothing against abortion, yet Exodus21:22 makes a case for abortion within the first two trimesters.


Please copy and paste the passage that you think promotes abortion.

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Apr 22, 2017 20:35:04   #
Dr.Dross
 
JFlorio wrote:
Nowhere in the Bible does the Word condone abortion. I find many more references that the unborn are considered young children and or the adult they will be someday

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-abortioninthebible.html


Exodus does indirectly. Jewish law demand a life for a life. If the fetus lost in the verse was in the third trimester, there would be no fine, only death. No argument. The majority of Jews and Christians, nearly unanimous, had this view on pregnancy and when life started. And there were even exceptions for third trimester pregnancy, notably is the mother's life was in danger. I am not making this up. Look it up.

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Apr 22, 2017 20:35:55   #
Dr.Dross
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
You should see yourself as others see you.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men.
You should see yourself as others see you. br br ... (show quote)


Have you been talking to my ex?

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Apr 22, 2017 22:02:36   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Just so you don't waste your valuable time with me. I get my guidance from the New Testament. I am a Christian not a Jew. You are using a very broad brush when you compare the saving of one already viable life by terminating another. Not the same as terminating a life for convenience . Why are you bringing this up as if you are a Christian. You may be, but none of your postings would support that.
Dr.Dross wrote:
Exodus does indirectly. Jewish law demand a life for a life. If the fetus lost in the verse was in the third trimester, there would be no fine, only death. No argument. The majority of Jews and Christians, nearly unanimous, had this view on pregnancy and when life started. And there were even exceptions for third trimester pregnancy, notably is the mother's life was in danger. I am not making this up. Look it up.

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Apr 22, 2017 22:23:48   #
Dr.Dross
 
Super Dave wrote:
You're saying people kill babies to help God... Well that's stupid.

I guess Hitler was just doing God's work helping him kill Jews and other people.


How do you say then that "God is in control"? Either he is or isn't? In control, these deaths are on him, not in control, how can he be God?

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Apr 22, 2017 22:48:34   #
Dr.Dross
 
JFlorio wrote:
Just so you don't waste your valuable time with me. I get my guidance from the New Testament. I am a Christian not a Jew. You are using a very broad brush when you compare the saving of one already viable life by terminating another. Not the same as terminating a life for convenience . Why are you bringing this up as if you are a Christian. You may be, but none of your postings would support that.


Thank you. Something along the lines of this, I think, Gloria Steinem quote: "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." There is much truth to that. A women getting pregnant still means she is loose, one of low moral values, a whore, slut, and whatever else Limbugh wants to call her. A man is just "seeding his oats." In the case of rape, the prosecutors favorite line was, "Look at how she dresses, your honor." And that was also used as for decades as a reasonable defense. She wanted it, can't be rape.

Find any reference to abortion in the New Testament? How could it not be seen anywhere if it were important to virtue and faith? Can you find a sin not mentioned by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jesus, and Paul? Or James and Peter? Not a single word: why? I hate abortion, I find it extremely tragic. No one really gains from it. But of all the things to compel Christians into politics and vote for a party that usually works against social justice for the poor and the stranger, I find it odd. Social justice is unquestionable in Scripture, both OT and NT. Over three thousand verses for social justice against one possibly two vague verses about abortion. What scale was used? Condemning is so much easier than correcting. Pointing a finger infinitely easier and pleasing than lifting a finger. Hating Muslims presumed a wink of approval from God by American Christians, but not welcoming the stranger as instructed by God.

I appreciate the space you provided. That was a decent gesture.

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