Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

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rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

You think we have gone to far??
"I think we have reached a point where we can no longer call ourselves the land of the brave, if indeed we are so frightened of being attacked that we are willing to submit ourselves and everyone else to constant surveillance and control." "Control?"

I don't mind being surveyed at all. I can still change my phone number as many times as I like. Get up in the mornings and dress as I like. Take a trip to Europe if I please. Have the field of employment that I will. So where is "Control" in that? No one watches me dress or undress, or goes through my medicine cabinet, my refridg, or the trunk of my car.
If I were a drug dealer, hung out with those on the possible terrorist list, than I would expect to be watched and surveyed pretty close. My calls as well. I guess I would even have to become sneaky as these people do.

I don't mind survelliance because of those poor poor helpless 3000 people that were murdered in 9/11. The other bombings happening around the world are not happening here because of "SURVELLIANCE". And, no one is "controlling" my life because of it!
We are no longer the land of the Brave? How many souls went in after those trapped in the twin towers, and still lost their lives? Each time a bomber has appeared in America, how many brave people jumped in to help the wounded not knowing what would happen next. America's Military is still very very brave.
You watch the Poles in '14, and '16, you'll see multimillions of Brave people taking a leap of faith, and voting for something better. This will be America's cross roads, and hopefully turning point.

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

Agreed, as Ben Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

straightUp Loc: California

I started a new thread with your link.
http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-6949-1.html#111154
I don't know that I agree with it's premise but it's probably something you want to share and discuss. I'd just rather you not hijack my thread with it.

cheers

TroubleshooterTim Loc: People's Republic of Oregon

I am just surprised that Eric Snowden hasn't been assassinated yet. I'm certain there are US operatives in Russia, and they know where he is. You can bet Obama want's him shut up, really bad.
We can be certain there are more revelations to be unfolding.

straightUp Loc: California

I'm a little surprised too. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be him right now. I have to say, I'm glad there are people like him out there, otherwise the government could do ANYTHING and get away with it, but I'm always glad it's someone else and not me.

I don't even want to know any top secrets... I wouldn't want to deal with the moral dilemma.

TroubleshooterTim Loc: People's Republic of Oregon

Amen to that.

straightUp Loc: California

Well folks, I probably started this thread at a bad time... I'm just getting ready to start a celebration of Irish music and brew that's supposed to last the entire weekend. My thoughts will be on banjo and Guinness but being an Irish party, I'm sure politics will come into play at some point.

I'll check in on Monday. Have a good weekend everyone.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

just because we can do something doesn't mean we should but when billions of $ are at stake, we will and rationalize with security concern

bmac32 Loc: West Florida

I'm trying to remember when we DIDN'T spy. We had spys during the Civil War, the Greeks had spys, they were all to varing degrees. Roosevelt had spys that spied on Americans during WWll. But they never spied an the average American which I do have a problem with. It's like the TSA, overboard!

jasfourth401

Because the perceived threat is everywhere. In "the old days", spying was a specific country business. Not any more. Terrorists are global, mobile and diverse. As you know, arrests have happened in the US, Great Britain, Germany and the usual suspect countries such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, etc. But that's not the real issue. The issue is the scope of surveillance as defined by the Patriot Act and the introduction of technology allowing mass data collection. For me, the biggest issue of all is "top secret security clearance." You'd think this would consist of a small group of people pouring over this stuff. Not even close. Over 3 million have "top secret security clearance." That's a recipe for disaster...and stupid.

bmac32 Loc: West Florida

The biggest spy is Obama. Being a member of the Communist party in Hawaii first with Frank Marshall Davis as his mentor along with Paul Robeson and Harry Bridges, the organization was concered a threat by the US government, then it was on to Chicago with Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn (read Weather Underground) another Communist outfit.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

during WWII the FBI spied on Americans and convinced everyone to spy on each other. Now we are relieved of that responsibilty

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

in case you missed it, communism died some time ago

jasfourth401

Finally...the greatest threat has been exposed...radicalized communists from Hawaii and a bunch of sixty somethings affiliated with a group that disbanded in the early 70's. Thank God for the NSA. They'll keep close tabs on them.