A lot of people do not keep up with everything that some other people do. I, myself, am on medicare and could not possibly tell anyone the exact difference about all of the healthcare options available. A lot of things can get very confusing after awhile. And, yes, I do understand about Obamacare and the AHCA being the same. But, I would not care to insult others for not knowing. The more I listen to the news about everything, the more crazy messed up information keeps forthcoming from our media itself. Sometimes, it is like trying to name all of the presidents of the US or some exact location in South American or overseas somewhere. I think the media should be sorry for making fun of other people in this manner.

I don't deal in rental properties. I provide a rural garbage service because the services in town don't want to take care of the people who live in the country. I know many of these people rely on when their farm incomes come in and sometimes I have to carry them a few months, but that's OK because they always pay up in the end. But there are people who have the money to pay and don't. That's when you have to be hard. I give people time to pay, but there's always someone who tries to get something for nothing. It's not fair to the paying customers that they should be forced to cover the non payers. I very seldom raise rates because I know some of these people struggle from time to time. I'll agree that sometimes the banks are partly to blame for the current mess, but so is the government. Raising energy cost because someone doesn't like oil or coal doesn't help anyone. High energy cost also lead to high food cost. I don't see any compassion from the government when people are struggling then adding to the cost of living to move the middle class to the working class poor.

Now I think we could have an intelligent conversation. I to am self employed and my business is service based. But being on the end of running a business, it's not the same as being an employee, I can see that most customers are pretty and as long as you treat them right, they'll do the same in return. However, I do run into a customer once in a while that wants something for nothing. Sometimes you have to be hard to keep your loses to a minimum. I don't like being that way, but reality is what it is.

Among the many things that separate most American citizens from a particular group in this country are rationality, compassion, tolerance, and fairness. The majority of our American population has the ability to look history square in the eye and not flinch. They seek not to gloss over the ugliness in our history. We study as well as acknowledge the ugliness of American history and seek ways to transcend this ugliness – not revise factual evidence. There are those who view American history the same way they look at sex; as something d********g to hide away from the neighbors and lie about. They pretend that the unsavory parts of history never happened, and in doing so, fail to learn the valuable and costly lessons those not pretty parts of history taught us.

This obsessive-compulsive tendency of these people is around us all the time - with this ignorance and stupidity being raised as a badge of honor by them. The amount of revisionism dealing with the Founding Fathers I have seen from these people is legendary (and laughable) - perhaps mythological is more descriptive. Trying to discuss historical facts with this segment of the population is like having someone repeatedly telling you "the answer to 2+2 is 3”, and then accuse you of being un-American when you correctly state “No, it’s 4.” These people's unrealistic view of history is incredibly simplistic and self-serving. As Senator Al Franken said in his book, Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them):

“Conservatives love America like a child loves his mommy, and mommy can do no wrong.”

I could argue, quite successfully, that these people are like children. After all, they throw temper tantrums (Tea Party), lash out in violence when angry (Armed M*****as) and have a tendency to not share with the other children - unless an adult makes them (Wall Street). But that’s not the point I’m trying to make - today at least. The fact is, this segment of the population does not venerate real history. They fear and loathe the accurate depiction of history. They intend to 'fix history' by systematic efforts under way to simply remove historical fact and make up their own historical fantasy.

This is less of a conspiracy than understanding that undiluted history presents a significant problem for that group. Specifically, it makes them look ignorant. Why do you think there were parts of the more embarrassing (to them) amendments in the much-vaunted reading of the Constitution at the beginning of the 112th Congress? Do we believe – as they said – “they were irrelevant”(?) Of course not! We are not silly. There is a specific reason this segment of society needs to rewrite the past in rosy prose. Because in the darkest parts of America’s history, those who hold this draconian philosophy were responsible for almost all of the darkness. Let’s look at some of this history in no particular order:

The Civil War – This group started it to maintain s***ery as a legal right.

Women’s Suffrage – This group stood against it.

The end of segregation – This group stood against that, too.

Gay marriage – Guess where they stand right now?
(And in in thirty years, guess where they will SAY they stood?)

H**e crime laws – This group is against them (ironically, they h**e them).

“Legalized” torture – Brought to you courtesy of their movement. To them, water-boarding is never legally considered torture - except when it is. (Spanish-American War: American soldiers court-martialed for doing it. WWII: Japanese soldiers convicted for doing it. Vietnam: American soldiers court-martialed for doing it. Texas, 1983: Sheriff and three deputies convicted for doing it.)

The Great Depression – This group allowed banks to run rampant and collapse the economy. Modern day conservatives blame liberals despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The Great Recession – This group allowed banks to run rampant and collapse the economy. I have seen this group of people blame progressives despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. This time with more success with their 24 hour mis-information propaganda bureaus.

Prohibition – Legislating morality, a “small government” favorite of this group that just happened to give rise to organized crime in the United States. Thanks for that!

The Southern Strategy – Still in effect and just as d********g (but brutally effective) as it was fifty years ago.

There is much more but, needless to say, their ideology leads to some dark places. They like to claim the liberalism leads to gas chambers, holocausts, tyranny, and r****m. But history shows us otherwise. What it does say is that these kinds of movements, especially combined with the intolerance of Fundamentalism, lead to corrupt governments, ethnic cleansing, poverty and economic disasters. Those in congress today with the same mind set of intolerance specialize in an ideology combined with intolerant Fundamentalism – Can you say, oh sh*t?

This is the reason this group wants to 'whitewash' American history - because of the abysmal record they have and are continuing to create. Some may think that they are purposely trying to harm our country. However, that would require them to understand the consequences of the policies they are enacting - understanding or intellect are not their particular strong points. But they did recognize when society was passing them by and furiously backpedaled to obfuscate their stance in order to remain relevant. Where do you think these people came from? They came from the final eight years of over forty years of total, systematic failure due to the very worst of unfettered conservative policies, that they continue to push. Suddenly, these people are “pure” conservatives that are exactly nothing like those “bad” republican conservatives from Barry Goldwater to G.W. Bush(?) Spare me.

So I ask you - How can we fight the pull their memory out of a black hole? How do we keep the t***h from being hopelessly obscured, rewritten and abused?

Write the t***h!

Keep a journal. Write a blog. Post an article. It doesn’t matter how well you write. What matters is that you write the t***h. Quote those out-of-touch-with-reality people whenever possible, as often as possible. Condemn them with their own words. Write it, share it, save it and never forget. Let the record show; in thirty years, they WILL say they always supported equal rights for homosexuals. In thirty years, when Hispanics are on parity with, or exceed, the white population, they WILL say they always supported immigration reform. In thirty years, when c*****e c****e is undeniable, they WILL say they always supported environmental legislation.

They will be lying then just as they lie now. They will try to change history textbooks to reflect their lies just as they are doing now. They will publish book after book after book filled with made up “facts” and they will be wrong just as they are now. It’s up to us to make sure our family and friends as, well as this mean-spirited segment of society remember what really happened. No matter how hard it may be for them to hear it.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
~ George Santayana

I face reality and the world can be a very h**eful, mean place. I've learned this hard way. It's true that the majority of people would rather be decent with each other, but all it takes is the actions of a few to screw things up. My feelings have nothing to do with h**e. It's more with survival. Obama has proven that he's a threat to the survival of this country which includes me. He's the one who shouted the insults at anyone who disagrees with his Marxism. But since you are a Marxist and h**e seems to be the only word in your vocabulary, I'd say YOU are the most h**eful person out there. Accuse you're opponent of everything you are guilty of, by Bill Clinton. You are truly the mind numb robot following what has been programmed into you. Good Marxist Democrat. Stalin would be proud of you. The only thing you said that made any sense that it's clear the country is doomed.

Obama did win by 2% so that gives him absolute power?, no that means that almost half of the v**ers (not counting the dead people who v**ed for Obama) disagreed with Obama, didn't want the government to take over health care, and thought Romney was a better leader. (The 48% were right in my opinion)
Besides, I don't know how you can claim anyone v**ed for the provisions of this particular health care bill; NO ONE HAD READ IT ! I think some percentage of ill informed v**ers did want "affordable" health care (spell that "free" health care), which Obamacare is NOT.
It not only is not good health care, it it extremely harmful to the creation of jobs which should be our president's primary goal (if we are to believe him when he says so). This bill not only discourages new hiring, it is causing businesses to cut hours and jobs in order to stay in business.
I hope you will give this a lot more thought. I'll listen to anything you say which indicates this law is actually beneficial to the citizens of this country. (Any argument except "its the law" considering how it was passed without any Republican v**es and with NO ONE reading it.)
1oldgeezer

First, I would like to apologize to anyone that joins this group where I used ugly descriptive terms in reference to a political persuasion that did not match my Progressive opinion in previous threads. It obvious that there are polarized views on political opinion. That being said I would like to have a civil discussion on opinions from those who may identify themselves as Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, Conservative Republicans, Tea Party Republicans, or traditional Republicans. I will not use any terms to describe a person with an opinion that I disagree with using any derogatory name.

I believe that if we take time to use a forum in a constructive as opposed to destructive manner, we may begin to see communications where we agree on some topics, as well as points we don't agree on in a rational civil tone. So let me start...

Blue state, red state. Big government vs. small government. Gun rights vs. gun control. A******n control vs. pro choice. Common good for all Americans vs. Socialism. Today our country is driven by the politics of extremes. To paraphrase a humorist - Republicans think of Democrats as godless, unpatriotic, Volvo-driving, France-loving, elitist latte guzzlers, whereas Democrats dismiss Republicans as ignorant, NASCAR-obsessed, gun-fondling religious fanatics. An exaggeration, for sure, but the reality is still pretty stark. Congress is in a perpetual stalemate today because of the two parties' inability to find middle ground on practically anything - and driving America to revolt.

Don't let these politicians continue to manipulate and divide us. Can I get a consensus we who are republicans and democrats actually agree about the most important things? For instance, I believe republicans and democrats are both fed up with both the republican and democratic parties, because it has become obvious that both parties serve Wall Street and the military-industrial complex at the expense of Americans.

It’s an old tactic: Get your opponents to fight amongst themselves so that they will get weaker and you can pick them off one by one. Gaius Julius Caesar coined the phrase “divide et impera” (divide and conquer) to describe it. He used it in his war against the Gauls, but in the millennia since then it has also become a very common political strategy. Again and again, the ruling classes of various societies at various times have used this trick to keep the people in line, to make ordinary people fight each other - both literally and figuratively - and forget about the people who are really making the mess. It continues to be used today all over the world, sometimes with great success. But sometimes people figure out what’s going on, and refuse to be divided.

Whether the wedge being used is religion or employment status or race, the strategy is the same: divide and conquer. Corporate America knows that it cannot fight all Americans at once. So they must turn us against each other if they are to win. If we are to win - WE THE PEOPLE - must stand together!

I can only speak for myself, Floyd... I am in favor of getting the government out of the marketplace, out of the welfare and charity business, as well as, out of running our educational systems from Washington, DC. Their job is to protect our country from foreign invasion, protect us from each other and regulate Interstate Commerce and damn little else. Hardship cases are better dealt with on a local and state basis, as is education. Shrink the federal bloated government to what it was set-up and intended to do and shrink our tax burdens, which allows growth and economic expansion, creating prosperity and greater opportunity for all. Local churches could offer daycare for working moms and when the government stops rewarding non-producers and
penalizing (taxing) producers our society will prosper.
Apply your moral compass to the problems you see. Taking from one group against their will and giving to another, is
immoral, creates resentment of the former and growing dependance of the latter.(Socialism) This is a formula for the disaster you see occurring, before your eyes, today. It started over a hundred years, ago and it won't go away with Obama. Our country needs a complete restoration.

I don't if you've been a victim of crime. I have been even though it's been a very long time ago. With Obama's h**e speech against everyone who disagrees with him and with his blessings going to the Black Panthers and those screwballs from Occupy Wall street, along with an economy that's on the edge of collapsing, I realize that it could turn into a dog eat dog country real quick and I'll be ready. They may get me in the end, but I'll take some of them with me. Look at history, Germany just after WW1 and before 1928. It could happen here given the current condition of this country. I haven't seen it this bad since the late 1960s. I'd say it's worse.

Also Floyd, the reason there is less money circulating is because of taxes. If the taxes (all taxes) are raised, the cost of producing goods increase and the price of goods and services increase as well. Imagine this scenario of a society without taxes:

Floyd works 40 hours a week for 10 bucks an hour. At the end of the week, he has 400 dollars to spend on goods and services that he feels he needs, and a little on wants. Those 400 dollars are now income of multiple businesses, who can pay their investors a portion of that money (I left out the cost of production to illustrate this point of diminishing money, as the money is still there, but given to other businesses for raw goods and employees for pay, ect). The investors now have 400 dollars to spend on what they want and need. This 400 dollars continues to circulate for infinity, even as Floyd continues to make money each week. Now, lets add a 10% tax to the equation.

Floyd still works 40 hours a week at 10 dollars an hour. At the end of the week, after taxes, he has 360 dollars to spend. That 360 dollars are now income to multiple companies, and after taxes, they have 326 dollars to give to their investors, which after their taxes, comes to 293 dollars to buy what they want. When this is spent, after taxes, the multiple businesses now have an income of 264 dollars to give to their investors.

You can see just how quickly that 400 dollars has become nothing. It is true that the taxes pay wages for and purchase items used by the government, but it is money that is mostly lost to the economy. What is even worse, is for a company to maintain its profit, it has to raise their cost of goods and services which means our 360 dollars can only buy less, because stuff costs more. This is how taxes strangle the economy. The higher the taxes, the faster that 400 dollars disappears and ceases to circulate, and the higher the price of everything.

If you really want to get the economy going, Floyd, we could lower the standard of sulfur content in our gasoline back to the levels in the early 90s so that it is 4 times cheaper to refine our fuel, which will drive the price of gasoline down, which is also a cost account for every product and service in existence. That and lower the taxes, which would make money cycle faster, and bring up investor confidence, making many more jobs.