I have never personally attacked you yet you continually personally attack me. Why is that?



No, only ONE is. The other is this -

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,



ALL who are saved are justified by God's grace. Including Mary. Are you saying He only gives partial grace to the rest of us? If so, that's not Biblical either. How can God give partial grace?



Not at all. You are twisting Mary into something she never was. Someone who is sinless has no need of a savior. Mary said "my spirit rejoices in God my Savior".

You either trust and believe God's word or you don't. That's what it boils down to.



Here is the verse again. It is quite clearly not to Paul -

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Not for nothing. Your doctrine is false and scripture proves it to be false. All you're doing is perverting scripture to make it mean something it doesn't.

Scripture itself proves Catholic doctrine to be wrong.

Believe me, I'm not a good example by a long shot. But I'm glad to be here. I'm still looking through some of Zemirah's posts - she's put a lot of good info up.

As my brother says, I think we all have an inner Pharisee - that pride in our belief. I know I have one and I hate it.

I don't know if they do or not but I do know that there are Catholics who do read the Bible regularly. Padremike knows his doctrine that's for sure and he asks some interesting questions.

Only God knows people's hearts. I've known Catholics who go don't believe some of the doctrine but want to stay in their church because its what they know. It's the same for protestants. Some people just want to hear what's comfortable and some preachers preach that way.

This is for Doc since he keeps asking for proof but when shown that proof he ignores it.

If Catholics want to say we need sacred tradition in order to be properly equipped doctrinally and spiritually, then they must establish that the Bible is not sufficient for teaching, or proof, correction, and training in righteousness and doctrinal issues.

These verses are also in the Catholic version of the bible so we can prove sola scriptura with the Catholic version.

Tim. 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate--equipped for every good work."

Psalm 19

7 The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;

8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;

9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules[d] of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.

10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.

11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.

12 Who can discern his errors?
Declare me innocent from hidden faults.

13 Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins;
let them not have dominion over me!
Then I shall be blameless,
and innocent of great transgression.

14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be acceptable in your sight,
O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.

There are more but I kept them out for easier reading as these are very specific.

We were never taught any of this in Catholic school. We were just to believe whatever the priests told us.

The verses that prove Christ is the rock are also in the Catholic version of the Bible.

Here they are again.

1 Peter 2:6
For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

1 Corinthians 10:4
"and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.


Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

Mark 12:10
"Have you not even read this Scripture: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;

Luke 20:17
But Jesus looked at them and said, "What then is this that is written: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone'?

1 Peter 2:7
"This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

Acts 4:11
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.

Isaiah 8:14
"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Romans 9:33
"just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

1 Peter 2:8
and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

Matthew 21:44
"And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Daniel 2:34
"You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them.

Daniel 2:45
"Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."

Daniel 2:35
"Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

1 Peter 2:4
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,

Not only that verse, but the one where its claimed Mary was sinless because of how Gabriel greeted her. Yet the Bible explicitly says others receive grace. Since Gabriel said "full of grace" yet we all get grace does that mean we only get partial grace? What does it mean?

They have never once refuted the numerous verses that refer to Christ as the rock. Not once because they can't be refuted. Many Catholics refuse to even look at their doctrine vs God's word.

So then you don't believe God's word? You put your faith in man's word above the Bible?

I notice you still cannot refute the verses that show very specifically CHRIST IS THE ROCK.




You latch on to that misinterpretation and ignore NUMEROUS other scriptures that prove Catholic doctrine is wrong.



You have the specific Bible verses that show irrefutably that Christ is the Rock. Yet you choose to ignore the word of God and instead place your trust in man's word.



Already done. They are vague and in no way suggest Peter was the rock. I notice that you still can't refute the verses I posted.

The following are not in the Bible and don't matter over God's word. It really cements that Catholic doctrine places man's word above God's. That is truly demonic.

You sure about that? How do you explain these two verses? There are many more. Is the word of God then flawed by saying we receive grace?

2 Cor 12:8-9 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,



He wouldn't? But he did. Nowhere in the Bible does it say Mary was without sin. Nowhere. That is man's invention.



Yet you fail to prove she was without sin. By Catholic reasoning since she received grace then since we do too when we are saved (according to God's word) then we must be sinless too. Which of course isn't true.

Since no sinless person needs a savior why then did Mary say this after Gabriel visited her?

Luke 1:46-47 "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior

A truly revealing statement. One thing is certain, you do know more about Catholic doctrine but that's as far as I'd go with it.



Much like the Catholics think they know everything? A lot of protestants are ex-Catholics because they started examining scripture and saw there was no justification for Mary and other idol worship, transubstantiation, mortal and venial sins, the pope being infallible in proclaiming Christ's doctrine and so many other things.



And yet there are key questions you don't address. I've said this before - such anger shows you're being convicted by the Holy Spirit. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.



Just like the Bereans did after they heard Paul and Silas, you have to search the scriptures to see if what a preacher says is true. Many don't bother. The Catholic churchs thinks people should rely on the word of priests and puts that above studying God's word. That's not Biblical either. Everyone needs help and we need to continually test the spirits and pray for discernment as we learn.

No those are not references to Peter being the rock. The verses I posted were very explicit in stating Christ was the rock. None of the ones you posted are even close to being specific. Not a single one.

So then was Peter lying when he said Christ was the rock? How do you explain that one away? Or the others?

I agree with that. We can't conceive of how it would have been in the garden.



For me there is no doubt he walked on water with his divinity because there is nothing in scripture to suggest otherwise. He was still God though in the flesh.



Not "my" interpretations. The Bible explains itself though there is no 100% agreement on all of it. Even among Catholicism. That doesn't mean one shouldn't use commentaries but they use scripture to explain scripture in more detail.

I have posted why scripture is sufficient and that comes from God's word not me. (example Psalm 17) God's word is either perfect or it isn't. Jesus never gave any additional tools.

I'm not talking about baptism or communion. Man's traditions are irrelevant to being a Christian.

Interesting because I didn't switch anything.