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Antony Blinken: Warring Ukraine Will Join NATO
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Apr 9, 2024 01:41:18   #
manning5me Loc: Richmond, Va.
 
WEBCO wrote:
We never should have started this war, and we should have let it end, both times, when Zelensky was ready to sign a peace treaty. Not another dime should go to the Ukraine.

==================
You join others with myopia and cellulitis on this war. Resigning the Ukrainian people to the always tender mercies of the Russians seems to be what your ilk call a strategic retreat. Fold you tents and steal away into the night, never mind the mess you leave behind for the people. Good thing you do not have a commanding role in this situation to make it even worse. You deal in the past and not the present, except you use your arguments of the past to influence the present. The future you obviously do not care about for the US, for NATO, for the Ukrainian people, nor for their forces. They are written off with the stroke of your pen.

If things go Russia's way, I'd guess that at least a million Ukrainians will be put to death by the Russians, and you can believe that their deaths will have been caused by shortages of everything our withheld money could have bought, both guns and butter! Most of all, time to hold the line until our western production of needed shells, artillery pieces and aircraft begin to flow substantially.
This reminds me of our ignominious retreat from Afghanistan.

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 06:09:08   #
DAV
 
Oldsailor65 wrote:
Antony Blinken: Warring Ukraine Will Join NATO
https://thecongressionalinsider.com/antony-blinken-warring-ukraine-will-join-nato/

Joe Biden’s Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, said Thursday in no uncertain terms that war torn Ukraine will become a member of the NATO alliance. This could draw the United States and Europe into direct military conflict with Russia, but that apparently was not a concern.

Blinken’s comments came in Brussels during the organization’s 75th anniversary celebration.

He declared that member states will “build a bridge” for Ukraine to cross into membership. Blinken echoed other alliance leaders when he flatly declared, “Ukraine will become a member of NATO.”



Blinken said “we will do everything we can, allies will do everything they can, to ensure Ukraine has what it needs to continue to deal with Russia’s ongoing aggression.”

While asserting that a pathway to membership will be cleared by the alliance, Blinken emphasized military support for Kyiv.

The Secretary of State told the media that “we are equally focused as I said on the immediate, and on Ukraine’s needs today, tomorrow, the day after to help it withstand this ongoing aggression from Russia.”


Not every NATO member is on board with the inevitability of Ukraine ascending into the alliance. In 2023, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz observed that the nation did not meet the criteria for membership.

Scholz noted, “It is also clear that we then have to discuss which security guarantees can be given in a post-war situation. But we are far from there yet…NATO’s criteria include a whole series of conditions that Ukraine cannot currently meet.”

That did not deter President Joe Biden and NATO head Jens Stoltenberg from declaring their intentions for Kyiv.

The pair commented last year that “Allies agree that Ukraine will become a member of NATO.” This is an outcome that Russian President Vladimir Putin flatly rejected.

But Ukraine Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba was pleased with Blinken’s pronouncement. “We look forward to the outcome. Of course we believe Ukraine deserves to be a member of NATO and that this should happen sooner rather than later.”

He thanked the U.S. Secretary of State for the “strong, encouraging message.”

A series of 10-year treaties between individual NATO states and Ukraine have already been signed. Finland on Wednesday became the latest to ink such an agreement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7DREY-Li8

This is how that problem was started by Stupid Biden.

I say let's arm Joe and the entire Biden administration with "assault weapons of war" and transport them to Ukraine immediately
Antony Blinken: Warring Ukraine Will Join NATO br ... (show quote)


Dear Mr. Blinkin, IF YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, THEN, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !!!

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 11:31:38   #
WEBCO
 
manning5me wrote:
==================
You join others with myopia and cellulitis on this war. Resigning the Ukrainian people to the always tender mercies of the Russians seems to be what your ilk call a strategic retreat. Fold you tents and steal away into the night, never mind the mess you leave behind for the people. Good thing you do not have a commanding role in this situation to make it even worse. You deal in the past and not the present, except you use your arguments of the past to influence the present. The future you obviously do not care about for the US, for NATO, for the Ukrainian people, nor for their forces. They are written off with the stroke of your pen.

If things go Russia's way, I'd guess that at least a million Ukrainians will be put to death by the Russians, and you can believe that their deaths will have been caused by shortages of everything our withheld money could have bought, both guns and butter! Most of all, time to hold the line until our western production of needed shells, artillery pieces and aircraft begin to flow substantially.
This reminds me of our ignominious retreat from Afghanistan.
================== br You join others with myopia ... (show quote)


My ilk sees no reason for us to be meddling in the affairs of the Ukraine. The fact that this conflict is ENTIRELY our fault doesn't seem to matter to you, or your ilk. Russia bad is all you seem to know. NATO is a relic of the past. Try putting the shoe on the other foot...would you be OK with China/Russia having military bases in Mexico, Canada, or Puerto Rico?

Reply
 
 
Apr 9, 2024 11:33:25   #
WEBCO
 
DAV wrote:
Dear Mr. Blinkin, IF YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, THEN, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !!!


Don't forget this is the guy who helped start the Russian collusion lie, and asked 50 ex-intelligence leaders to lie about hunters laptop.

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 12:00:20   #
martsiva
 
manning5me wrote:
=================
Unfortunately, you are the ridiculous one. There is plentiful historical evidence that supports my statement, and not yours. Putin himself has voiced the same thing over and over in his national speeches, and has conducted now 9 wars to regain the territory they think they need for security.

Sorry, Mam, but you have it bassackwards, Putin will threaten the destruction of the US as his troops invade NATO nations, leaving us the option of using our nukes first on Russia, which we have vowed not to do. He wins, we will not use our nukes, and he annexes one or more Baltic states and perhaps Poland.

No one in their right mind would risk nuclear annihilation of America over Putin invading Latvia, for instance. Or Estonia, or Lithuania, and I believe over Poland, never mind that we could also kill Russia in retaliation, but won't.

Looked at another way, neither Russia nor the US want to use their nukes. Russia uses that fact to invade a NATO nation, The US will not respond first with nukes, A. because it isn't worth it to take the Russian nuke attack response for a small NATO nation, and B. because we have vowed not to be a first user of nukes. So, Russia wins that nation, and can repeat the same scenario for further nations. MAD works, but at the cost of small nations one or a few at a time.

This is why NATO has sent large forces up to the borders of Russia, especially in Poland, to threaten a counter invasion of Russia if Russia invades a Baltic state, thus resorting to a non-nuclear response. These US forces also tend to ensure that Poland will not be first on Russia's agenda.

The Baltic states are weak militarily, and they are very hard to reenforce because of their geography and the narrow land connection to their south which Russia would try to capture immediately, joining up with their isolated dominion on the Baltic sea. The US has put small forces into them to act as tripwire insurance that if Russia attacks, we would be immediately involved, thus acting as a deterrent to Russia's ideas. Are all of our moves sufficient? Perhaps.

A comment: It seems that many Americans do not give credit to the nations composing NATO f or their ability to think for themselves and somehow conclude that NATO must act strongly against Russia right now! That the Ukraine is a key effort in blocking Russian ambitions, and that Putin is determined to restore the Soviet empire. They called upon the US to support the effort to stop Putin as we had already decided to do, of course, so we have a strong alliance. Sweden and Finland came on board for the same reasons: stopping Putin. Why is it that their take on the situation is ignored or downplayed by our average citizens? All 30 nations of NATO have made a serious commitment to fight Russia if necessary real soon now. We Americans cannot ignore this. These nations have heard Putin's speeches, and have been watching his 9 battles to gain back territory. They see the threat very clearly. We should also.
================= br Unfortunately, you are the ri... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 12:21:18   #
martsiva
 
manning5me wrote:
=================
Unfortunately, you are the ridiculous one. There is plentiful historical evidence that supports my statement, and not yours. Putin himself has voiced the same thing over and over in his national speeches, and has conducted now 9 wars to regain the territory they think they need for security.

Sorry, Mam, but you have it bassackwards, Putin will threaten the destruction of the US as his troops invade NATO nations, leaving us the option of using our nukes first on Russia, which we have vowed not to do. He wins, we will not use our nukes, and he annexes one or more Baltic states and perhaps Poland.

No one in their right mind would risk nuclear annihilation of America over Putin invading Latvia, for instance. Or Estonia, or Lithuania, and I believe over Poland, never mind that we could also kill Russia in retaliation, but won't.

Looked at another way, neither Russia nor the US want to use their nukes. Russia uses that fact to invade a NATO nation, The US will not respond first with nukes, A. because it isn't worth it to take the Russian nuke attack response for a small NATO nation, and B. because we have vowed not to be a first user of nukes. So, Russia wins that nation, and can repeat the same scenario for further nations. MAD works, but at the cost of small nations one or a few at a time.

This is why NATO has sent large forces up to the borders of Russia, especially in Poland, to threaten a counter invasion of Russia if Russia invades a Baltic state, thus resorting to a non-nuclear response. These US forces also tend to ensure that Poland will not be first on Russia's agenda.

The Baltic states are weak militarily, and they are very hard to reenforce because of their geography and the narrow land connection to their south which Russia would try to capture immediately, joining up with their isolated dominion on the Baltic sea. The US has put small forces into them to act as tripwire insurance that if Russia attacks, we would be immediately involved, thus acting as a deterrent to Russia's ideas. Are all of our moves sufficient? Perhaps.

A comment: It seems that many Americans do not give credit to the nations composing NATO f or their ability to think for themselves and somehow conclude that NATO must act strongly against Russia right now! That the Ukraine is a key effort in blocking Russian ambitions, and that Putin is determined to restore the Soviet empire. They called upon the US to support the effort to stop Putin as we had already decided to do, of course, so we have a strong alliance. Sweden and Finland came on board for the same reasons: stopping Putin. Why is it that their take on the situation is ignored or downplayed by our average citizens? All 30 nations of NATO have made a serious commitment to fight Russia if necessary real soon now. We Americans cannot ignore this. These nations have heard Putin's speeches, and have been watching his 9 battles to gain back territory. They see the threat very clearly. We should also.
================= br Unfortunately, you are the ri... (show quote)


I guess you missed Putin`s QUOTE when he said 'whoever wants the Soviet Union back has no brains' didn`t you?? Putin is NOT going to deliberately attack a NATO nation that would bring destruction on his own nation when every NATO nation in the world attack Russia!! It would be VERY hard to bring back the Soviet Union that way - now wouldn't it? Biden meddling in this war could very well bring on a war with Russia that could go nuclear so don`t even go there! Just because people don`t want to use nukes doesn`t by any stretch of the imagination mean they won`t!! You don`t even know what started this war in the first place!! 9 battles? What 9 battles?

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 12:28:01   #
martsiva
 
manning5me wrote:
======================
Seems to me the past is irrelevant now, and trying to sort out blame and winners and losers is a true fools game. Sins may be on both sides, but just how does one account for them if true? For me, the problem began when Russian forces crossed the Ukraine border hoping to capture Kyiv. That is a clear violation of the sovereignty of an independent nation. (And, we must admit one factor from the past, and that is the Crimea takeover by Putin in 2014.) Also, for Russia to insist that the Ukraine must not join NATO is going too far. They have the right to do that as a free nation, never mind the paranoia of Russian leaders. That NATO is a defensive alliance means that Russia should never fear an attack from NATO. Putin knows this very well, but he is a clever manipulator, and all the time he has his eyes on Ukraine for quite a number of reasons. He made his move. We have supported the resistance to it. If NATO continues their support, the US included, there is a chance we can force a withdrawal by Russia/Putin. If we falter Putin will win, stabilize the area, and then turn his attention to The Balkans.

Meanwhile, by absorbing the forces Putin has mustered in battling the Ukrainians, the idea of a Balkan thrust is deferred. Putin doesn't have the strength to do that at the moment, especially when we have brought significant forces into the region to thwart him.

So, the war to stop Putin's expansion plans hinges upon who wins in the Ukraine.

We must win. It is shameful to see resistance to this fact by congress, and a segment of the populace, I know. And, to wave the moral superiority flag and judge the Ukraine for being corrupt is simply a distraction from the goal. That is a factor in how we support them not a stopper!
====================== br Seems to me the past is ... (show quote)


ONE more time - WHY did Putin invade Ukraine in the first place?? WHAT and WHO was the catalyst for this war?? You seem to have some stupid idea that Putin just wanted which shows a complete lack of knowledge!!

Reply
 
 
Apr 9, 2024 12:28:43   #
martsiva
 
WEBCO wrote:
We never should have started this war, and we should have let it end, both times, when Zelensky was ready to sign a peace treaty. Not another dime should go to the Ukraine.


Amen to that!

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 12:39:53   #
martsiva
 
manning5me wrote:
==================
You join others with myopia and cellulitis on this war. Resigning the Ukrainian people to the always tender mercies of the Russians seems to be what your ilk call a strategic retreat. Fold you tents and steal away into the night, never mind the mess you leave behind for the people. Good thing you do not have a commanding role in this situation to make it even worse. You deal in the past and not the present, except you use your arguments of the past to influence the present. The future you obviously do not care about for the US, for NATO, for the Ukrainian people, nor for their forces. They are written off with the stroke of your pen.

If things go Russia's way, I'd guess that at least a million Ukrainians will be put to death by the Russians, and you can believe that their deaths will have been caused by shortages of everything our withheld money could have bought, both guns and butter! Most of all, time to hold the line until our western production of needed shells, artillery pieces and aircraft begin to flow substantially.
This reminds me of our ignominious retreat from Afghanistan.
================== br You join others with myopia ... (show quote)


The past is what started this war in the first place and you show total ignorance of that fact!! Tell us just HOW the billions we have already spent has helped in ANY WAY! Tell us where all the unaccounted money we sent is! Tell us just where and how we are going to get all the money to keep funding Ukraine!

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 13:21:37   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
martsiva wrote:
I guess you missed Putin`s QUOTE when he said 'whoever wants the Soviet Union back has no brains' didn`t you?? Putin is NOT going to deliberately attack a NATO nation that would bring destruction on his own nation when every NATO nation in the world attack Russia!! It would be VERY hard to bring back the Soviet Union that way - now wouldn't it? Biden meddling in this war could very well bring on a war with Russia that could go nuclear so don`t even go there! Just because people don`t want to use nukes doesn`t by any stretch of the imagination mean they won`t!! You don`t even know what started this war in the first place!! 9 battles? What 9 battles?
I guess you missed Putin`s QUOTE when he said 'who... (show quote)


Do you believe Putin, backed by China, Iran & NOKO, witnessing the abject weakness and cowardness of the Biden Administration and Europe's natural passiveness might consider reclaiming lost nations?

Reply
Apr 9, 2024 15:01:56   #
martsiva
 
padremike wrote:
Do you believe Putin, backed by China, Iran & NOKO, witnessing the abject weakness and cowardness of the Biden Administration and Europe's natural passiveness might consider reclaiming lost nations?


No. That would be suicide for Russia. NATO nations led by Biden`s handlers would ban together and destroy Russia which is the ultimate goal in the first place. Putin is not going to give them an excuse to come after Russia. No matter what people think about Putin he is not stupid. What I`m waiting for is a false flag to blame Russia for attacking a NATO nation. Besides armaments and tactical support what other backing do you think these other nations could give?

Reply
 
 
Apr 10, 2024 14:04:10   #
whole2th
 
Like cheating on a spouse in the home bed--and knowing the spouse will arrive to catch you cheating.

Reply
Apr 10, 2024 15:08:40   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
whole2th wrote:
Like cheating on a spouse in the home bed--and knowing the spouse will arrive to catch you cheating.


Might be interesting if we knew who you were addressing and about what?

Reply
Apr 15, 2024 17:03:26   #
manning5me Loc: Richmond, Va.
 
padremike wrote:
Might be interesting if we knew who you were addressing and about what?


Meant for those against helping he Ukraine:

One cannot change the past, with all of its twists and turns, and the blame-game can be played far too many ways. I play it my way just as you do. Objectivity is non-existent. The obvious two points of departure for rational thinking are Crimea in 2014, ans Ukraine in 2023.
I noe with sadness that no one joins me in sorrow and determination to help the Ukrainian people survive.
Without one whit of compassion for them, you all can just go simmer somewhere and let the adults get into the game. I thought it was generals that thought of soldiers as chessboard pieces: you think of an entire population as nothing more.

The geopolitics game is multivalued not zero-sum.
The war game is simpler: The bigger man wins most of the time. You have to do some extraordinary things to defeat the bigger man, and you need all the help you can get. The bigger man, wining here, threatens the next tier of Balken states, NATO members hard to defend and reenforce by NATO. Hence, we have tripwire forces there. The US will not use Nukes in this situation except in retaliation. Losing the Ukraine would be a disaster.

Reply
Apr 15, 2024 18:55:54   #
WEBCO
 
manning5me wrote:
Meant for those against helping he Ukraine:

One cannot change the past, with all of its twists and turns, and the blame-game can be played far too many ways. I play it my way just as you do. Objectivity is non-existent. The obvious two points of departure for rational thinking are Crimea in 2014, ans Ukraine in 2023.
I noe with sadness that no one joins me in sorrow and determination to help the Ukrainian people survive.
Without one whit of compassion for them, you all can just go simmer somewhere and let the adults get into the game. I thought it was generals that thought of soldiers as chessboard pieces: you think of an entire population as nothing more.

The geopolitics game is multivalued not zero-sum.
The war game is simpler: The bigger man wins most of the time. You have to do some extraordinary things to defeat the bigger man, and you need all the help you can get. The bigger man, wining here, threatens the next tier of Balken states, NATO members hard to defend and reenforce by NATO. Hence, we have tripwire forces there. The US will not use Nukes in this situation except in retaliation. Losing the Ukraine would be a disaster.
Meant for those against helping he Ukraine: br br... (show quote)


How can you lose something you never had?

You don't even wonder why Obama and Biden/Obama started this war?

I do have compassion for the Ukrainian people. I want their needless/senseless deaths to end. This war was OUR making, and we should have allowed the Ukraine to sign the peace treaty over a years ago.

Reply
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