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Mar 16, 2022 17:11:31   #
The Ms.
 
robertv3 wrote:
... said as though I had not put "(satire)" at the end of it in case you didn't understand that it was satire. But now maybe you are engaging in satire too of some strange sort.


So you did, apologies! I did think it was a cute idea….. lol

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Mar 16, 2022 19:24:13   #
son of witless
 
The Ms. wrote:
Wake up….. maybe 60 years ago but no more….. you have it ass backwards!!!! Check out who big 1120s are contributing to and get back to us! You are being taken down the Yellow Brick Road and you are going to end up in a very Black Hole!!!! Just a wake up call.


You tell him. Of course you can't tell a brain dead zombie anything.

Reply
Mar 16, 2022 19:28:34   #
The Ms.
 
son of witless wrote:
You tell him. Of course you can't tell a brain dead zombie anything.


No, but it makes me feel better! What have some been doing with their life. They are going to be destroyed when they finally see how bad this will be….then we will have to listen to them cry…..

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2022 00:08:12   #
robertv3
 
dtucker300 wrote:
The way you do that is to limit the power of government (and Politicians) to wreak havoc on our lives. Politicians love to exert power over people. Until we return to the constitutional principles upon which our government was founded things will continue to devolve. There is not enough time and space here to lay out all the things we should and should not be doing. But basically, we are in agreement.


You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here. I agree that there has to be a limit or limits on the power of government. That's why there's Separation of Church and State, Checks and Balances, and a law that says public servants must not take bribes, plus a few other checks built into the system.

The part which you (and maybe most Republicans) (whether you're Republican or not) don't seem to understand is that there needs to be a "limit" to "the power of" wealthy people and large business corporations and various criminals, so that they won't be able to "wreak havoc on our lives". Wealthy people and large business corporations, and criminals, "love to exert power over people".

That the power, of powerful people over less powerful people, needs to be limited, is why our government was invented. Our government was invented so that we, through it, could limit what powerful entities could do to us.

Before that there were kings with too much power over poor people. Then some noblemen banded together to write a Magna Carta and then force or influence a king to obey the Magna Carta. This limited the power of the king. The Magna Carta was an improvement upon the government that preceded it. Later, the U.S. Constitution (and, in my view, the U.S. Declaration of Independence as an important factor) was an improvement over the government that had preceded it.

Note that they did not get rid of government altogether.

There was a reason why they still needed a government.

There is a mechanical device called a "governor" which works as follows: a spinning wheel has parts that rise up and outward as the wheel spins faster (as a result of what's commonly called "centrifugal force"). When the wheel spins too fast, those parts rise up high enough or outward far enough to trigger a mechanism that either stops the wheel or slows it down. This "governs" the speed of the wheel. This "governing" prevents the wheel from going too fast.

"Government" (or, at least, good government) has a similar principle: It governs so that things don't spin too far out of control. Government stops (or exists to stop) thieves, thugs, powerful individuals, the mafia, and large business corporations from doing really bad things. It does this by some form of "regulation" (similarly as the mechanical device described above "regulates" or "governs" the speed of the wheel), such as a law against murder or theft, or a law against monopolistic business, and by enforcement of laws, etc. It limits the power of a large business corporation, among other things. And, as you already know, our form of good government (including the Constitution) also has some limits on government itself.

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 00:41:16   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
robertv3 wrote:
You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here. I agree that there has to be a limit or limits on the power of government. That's why there's Separation of Church and State, Checks and Balances, and a law that says public servants must not take bribes, plus a few other checks built into the system.

The part which you (and maybe most Republicans) (whether you're Republican or not) don't seem to understand is that there needs to be a "limit" to "the power of" wealthy people and large business corporations and various criminals, so that they won't be able to "wreak havoc on our lives". Wealthy people and large business corporations, and criminals, "love to exert power over people".

That the power, of powerful people over less powerful people, needs to be limited, is why our government was invented. Our government was invented so that we, through it, could limit what powerful entities could do to us.

Before that there were kings with too much power over poor people. Then some noblemen banded together to write a Magna Carta and then force or influence a king to obey the Magna Carta. This limited the power of the king. The Magna Carta was an improvement upon the government that preceded it. Later, the U.S. Constitution (and, in my view, the U.S. Declaration of Independence as an important factor) was an improvement over the government that had preceded it.

Note that they did not get rid of government altogether.

There was a reason why they still needed a government.

There is a mechanical device called a "governor" which works as follows: a spinning wheel has parts that rise up and outward as the wheel spins faster (as a result of what's commonly called "centrifugal force"). When the wheel spins too fast, those parts rise up high enough or outward far enough to trigger a mechanism that either stops the wheel or slows it down. This "governs" the speed of the wheel. This "governing" prevents the wheel from going too fast.

"Government" (or, at least, good government) has a similar principle: It governs so that things don't spin too far out of control. Government stops (or exists to stop) thieves, thugs, powerful individuals, the mafia, and large business corporations from doing really bad things. It does this by some form of "regulation" (similarly as the mechanical device described above "regulates" or "governs" the speed of the wheel), such as a law against murder or theft, or a law against monopolistic business, and by enforcement of laws, etc. It limits the power of a large business corporation, among other things. And, as you already know, our form of good government (including the Constitution) also has some limits on government itself.
You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here.... (show quote)


We are in more agreement than you think. What makes you think I (and maybe most Republicans) (whether you're Republican or not)[I am not a Republican] don't seem to understand is that there needs to be a "limit" to "the power of" wealthy people and large business corporations and various criminals so that they won't be able to "wreak havoc on our lives". Wealthy people and large business corporations, and criminals, "love to exert power over people". You practically quoted me. If men were angels there would be no need for government. Men are not angels, therefore there is a need for government.

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 09:11:56   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
robertv3 wrote:
You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here. I agree that there has to be a limit or limits on the power of government. That's why there's Separation of Church and State, Checks and Balances, and a law that says public servants must not take bribes, plus a few other checks built into the system.

The part which you (and maybe most Republicans) (whether you're Republican or not) don't seem to understand is that there needs to be a "limit" to "the power of" wealthy people and large business corporations and various criminals, so that they won't be able to "wreak havoc on our lives". Wealthy people and large business corporations, and criminals, "love to exert power over people".

That the power, of powerful people over less powerful people, needs to be limited, is why our government was invented. Our government was invented so that we, through it, could limit what powerful entities could do to us.

Before that there were kings with too much power over poor people. Then some noblemen banded together to write a Magna Carta and then force or influence a king to obey the Magna Carta. This limited the power of the king. The Magna Carta was an improvement upon the government that preceded it. Later, the U.S. Constitution (and, in my view, the U.S. Declaration of Independence as an important factor) was an improvement over the government that had preceded it.

Note that they did not get rid of government altogether.

There was a reason why they still needed a government.

There is a mechanical device called a "governor" which works as follows: a spinning wheel has parts that rise up and outward as the wheel spins faster (as a result of what's commonly called "centrifugal force"). When the wheel spins too fast, those parts rise up high enough or outward far enough to trigger a mechanism that either stops the wheel or slows it down. This "governs" the speed of the wheel. This "governing" prevents the wheel from going too fast.

"Government" (or, at least, good government) has a similar principle: It governs so that things don't spin too far out of control. Government stops (or exists to stop) thieves, thugs, powerful individuals, the mafia, and large business corporations from doing really bad things. It does this by some form of "regulation" (similarly as the mechanical device described above "regulates" or "governs" the speed of the wheel), such as a law against murder or theft, or a law against monopolistic business, and by enforcement of laws, etc. It limits the power of a large business corporation, among other things. And, as you already know, our form of good government (including the Constitution) also has some limits on government itself.
You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here.... (show quote)


I hear and agree with what both of you are saying in "essence". I think we need to remember that today's "governing body"-some not all, are part of the the large business corporations and wealthy to which you refer. Therefore maybe term limits would help the situation. I'm 65 years old and what I have found through out my life, regardless of political party, politicians (our governing body) are doing their will as opposed to the people's will. They are in office way to long, accumulate way too many "powerful friends" in the business world and all of a sudden they are no longer working toward their campaign promises but toward the goals of the wealthy and big business. I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is Big business and the wealthy wouldn't have this much power if our (both sides) representatives weren't allowing it to happen!

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 13:56:14   #
Iliamna1
 
microphor wrote:
I hear and agree with what both of you are saying in "essence". I think we need to remember that today's "governing body"-some not all, are part of the the large business corporations and wealthy to which you refer. Therefore maybe term limits would help the situation. I'm 65 years old and what I have found through out my life, regardless of political party, politicians (our governing body) are doing their will as opposed to the people's will. They are in office way to long, accumulate way too many "powerful friends" in the business world and all of a sudden they are no longer working toward their campaign promises but toward the goals of the wealthy and big business. I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is Big business and the wealthy wouldn't have this much power if our (both sides) representatives weren't allowing it to happen!
I hear and agree with what both of you are saying ... (show quote)


I'm a conservative and tend to vote mostly Republican. I agree with your assessment. The best and probably the only way to fix this is TERM LIMITS I would suggest 2 terms for senators and 4 for representatives. This would limit their accumulation of wealth and powerful friends.

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2022 17:39:25   #
robertv3
 
dtucker300 wrote:
We are in more agreement than you think. What makes you think I (and maybe most Republicans) (whether you're Republican or not)[I am not a Republican] don't seem to understand is that there needs to be a "limit" to "the power of" wealthy people and large business corporations and various criminals so that they won't be able to "wreak havoc on our lives". Wealthy people and large business corporations, and criminals, "love to exert power over people". You practically quoted me. If men were angels there would be no need for government. Men are not angels, therefore there is a need for government.
We are in more agreement than you think. What mak... (show quote)


I didn't only "practically" quote you. I _did_ quote you, and deliberately. The difference was that (in what you _had_ _written_) you applied the concept of limiting to only "government", whereas I applied it also to large business corporations and a variety of other entities.

And that's an important distinction.

The same thing is a big difference between the Republican Party and the Democrat Party. Notice how the Republican Party is so often for "deregulation" (so much so that it is irresponsible). Every real government that's ever existed has always "regulated" something in some way; that's what it means to be a "government". I'm waiting for the Republican Party to admit this. What does the Republican Party want to regulate? Sometimes it wants to regulate sex or gender. But even then, it doesn't call it "regulating". At least half the Republican Party either doesn't know what government is for, or is doing such a good job pretending not to know that one can't tell the difference.

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 17:55:35   #
robertv3
 
microphor wrote:
I hear and agree with what both of you are saying in "essence". I think we need to remember that today's "governing body"-some not all, are part of the the large business corporations and wealthy to which you refer. Therefore maybe term limits would help the situation. I'm 65 years old and what I have found through out my life, regardless of political party, politicians (our governing body) are doing their will as opposed to the people's will. They are in office way to long, accumulate way too many "powerful friends" in the business world and all of a sudden they are no longer working toward their campaign promises but toward the goals of the wealthy and big business. I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is Big business and the wealthy wouldn't have this much power if our (both sides) representatives weren't allowing it to happen!
I hear and agree with what both of you are saying ... (show quote)


What you say here is mostly true. But you oversimplify when you say "both sides". Of course both sides do have this problem, but the drive toward responsible regulation comes mostly from the Democrat side, and the drive to prevent regulation of big business comes mostly from the Republican side.

Yes, maybe "term limits" would help; however, they might prevent enough longevity in government to gain necessary experience.

There are some kinds of work, including some kinds of government work, which require a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, and a lot of connections and trust between people. An example in government is international diplomacy. There are also examples in science.

In those kinds of work, the people are not like replaceable parts. A scientist explained it to me. He said, in essence, that it takes decades to build up the infrastructure. The people in place, and their relationships with other scientists in other parts of the world, are all part of the infrastructure that makes that kind of work doable.

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 18:59:46   #
son of witless
 
robertv3 wrote:
You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here. I agree that there has to be a limit or limits on the power of government. That's why there's Separation of Church and State, Checks and Balances, and a law that says public servants must not take bribes, plus a few other checks built into the system.

The part which you (and maybe most Republicans) (whether you're Republican or not) don't seem to understand is that there needs to be a "limit" to "the power of" wealthy people and large business corporations and various criminals, so that they won't be able to "wreak havoc on our lives". Wealthy people and large business corporations, and criminals, "love to exert power over people".

That the power, of powerful people over less powerful people, needs to be limited, is why our government was invented. Our government was invented so that we, through it, could limit what powerful entities could do to us.

Before that there were kings with too much power over poor people. Then some noblemen banded together to write a Magna Carta and then force or influence a king to obey the Magna Carta. This limited the power of the king. The Magna Carta was an improvement upon the government that preceded it. Later, the U.S. Constitution (and, in my view, the U.S. Declaration of Independence as an important factor) was an improvement over the government that had preceded it.

Note that they did not get rid of government altogether.

There was a reason why they still needed a government.

There is a mechanical device called a "governor" which works as follows: a spinning wheel has parts that rise up and outward as the wheel spins faster (as a result of what's commonly called "centrifugal force"). When the wheel spins too fast, those parts rise up high enough or outward far enough to trigger a mechanism that either stops the wheel or slows it down. This "governs" the speed of the wheel. This "governing" prevents the wheel from going too fast.

"Government" (or, at least, good government) has a similar principle: It governs so that things don't spin too far out of control. Government stops (or exists to stop) thieves, thugs, powerful individuals, the mafia, and large business corporations from doing really bad things. It does this by some form of "regulation" (similarly as the mechanical device described above "regulates" or "governs" the speed of the wheel), such as a law against murder or theft, or a law against monopolistic business, and by enforcement of laws, etc. It limits the power of a large business corporation, among other things. And, as you already know, our form of good government (including the Constitution) also has some limits on government itself.
You and I are perhaps about 25% in agreement here.... (show quote)


It is not rich people you have to fear. It is rich Liberal People.

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 19:50:31   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
I'm a conservative and tend to vote mostly Republican. I agree with your assessment. The best and probably the only way to fix this is TERM LIMITS I would suggest 2 terms for senators and 4 for representatives. This would limit their accumulation of wealth and powerful friends.


Agreed 👍

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2022 20:24:17   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
robertv3 wrote:
I didn't only "practically" quote you. I _did_ quote you, and deliberately. The difference was that (in what you _had_ _written_) you applied the concept of limiting to only "government", whereas I applied it also to large business corporations and a variety of other entities.

And that's an important distinction.

The same thing is a big difference between the Republican Party and the Democrat Party. Notice how the Republican Party is so often for "deregulation" (so much so that it is irresponsible). Every real government that's ever existed has always "regulated" something in some way; that's what it means to be a "government". I'm waiting for the Republican Party to admit this. What does the Republican Party want to regulate? Sometimes it wants to regulate sex or gender. But even then, it doesn't call it "regulating". At least half the Republican Party either doesn't know what government is for, or is doing such a good job pretending not to know that one can't tell the difference.
I didn't only "practically" quote you. ... (show quote)


"I'm waiting for the Republican Party to admit this." Don't hold your breath.
"What does the Republican Party want to regulate?" I wouldn't know since I'm not a Republican.
"At least half the Republican Party either doesn't know what government is for, or is doing such a good job pretending not to know that one can't tell the difference." Those are the RINOs and establishment Republicans. Then there are the Democrats who want to over-regulate and make everyone dependent on the government. I see the Democrats trying to regulate sex and gender as much as, if not more than, the Republicans. Just how are the Republicans regulating sex and gender? You should live in California. Everything this state's Democrats touch turns to crap.

Reply
Mar 17, 2022 20:34:42   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
robertv3 wrote:
What you say here is mostly true. But you oversimplify when you say "both sides". Of course both sides do have this problem, but the drive toward responsible regulation comes mostly from the Democrat side, and the drive to prevent regulation of big business comes mostly from the Republican side.

Yes, maybe "term limits" would help; however, they might prevent enough longevity in government to gain necessary experience.

There are some kinds of work, including some kinds of government work, which require a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, and a lot of connections and trust between people. An example in government is international diplomacy. There are also examples in science.

In those kinds of work, the people are not like replaceable parts. A scientist explained it to me. He said, in essence, that it takes decades to build up the infrastructure. The people in place, and their relationships with other scientists in other parts of the world, are all part of the infrastructure that makes that kind of work doable.
What you say here is mostly true. But you oversim... (show quote)


Get rid of crony capitalism. This was part of the Tea Party's platform. I have never have seen a Democrat administration use the policing power of the SEC to go after wall street crooks. Usually a fine and a slap on the wrist. The housing meltdown and Lehman Brothers going belly up in 2008 are examples. Obama came in and lavished billions of dollars on bailouts. Let GM fail if they can build cars and compete. They were saddled with huge debt liabilities for retired workers because of the UAW. But FJB like unions. So much so that he eliminates their jobs.

Look, I get what you're saying but both parties are responsible. Lately, however, it is the Democrats that have veered so far to the left that people are leaving the party. It's a constant tug-a-war and when the Republicans get majorities they will do bonehead things also.

Reply
Mar 18, 2022 22:26:19   #
robertv3
 
dtucker300 wrote:
"I'm waiting for the Republican Party to admit this." Don't hold your breath.
"What does the Republican Party want to regulate?" I wouldn't know since I'm not a Republican.
"At least half the Republican Party either doesn't know what government is for, or is doing such a good job pretending not to know that one can't tell the difference." Those are the RINOs and establishment Republicans. Then there are the Democrats who want to over-regulate and make everyone dependent on the government. I see the Democrats trying to regulate sex and gender as much as, if not more than, the Republicans. Just how are the Republicans regulating sex and gender? You should live in California. Everything this state's Democrats touch turns to crap.
"I'm waiting for the Republican Party to admi... (show quote)


I do live in California. I've found it much better than the main other place where I've lived.

Reply
Mar 18, 2022 22:47:40   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
robertv3 wrote:
I do live in California. I've found it much better than the main other place where I've lived.


Where else have you lived?

Reply
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