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The truth about gun control
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Aug 17, 2019 01:31:39   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Out here in the boonies, guns are tools and defensive weapons. You can't live safely out here without some.
We've got two AR-15 platforms, 12ga pump shotgun, .30-06 hunting rifle & two semi pistols, and plenty of ammo for all. And we're considered woefully underarmed for being a half-mile from the nearest neighbor.
Sheriff is 45 mins away if they come at all, which means that we're pretty much on our own. Tweakers are starting to come into the neighborhood and causing trouble. We had one in our parking lot at 4 in the morning ... good thing we have motion detectors around the property. Down the way, one broke into their shop, and busted out two windows in the process. It's a good thing that our arsenal is pretty good.
What I would agree to is that within city limits/urban growth boundaries, that they can have regs to prevent the access to weapons outside the home ... if you are carrying or have a loaded one in your car, without a permit, it's an automatic jail stretch. Exception is if the weapon is locked up and in an inaccessible area, and the ammo is elsewhere. Otherwise, you better not have one anywhere close to you, especially if it's loaded.

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Aug 17, 2019 01:51:40   #
Stratman911
 
Larai wrote:
Ok.. well thank you... No sarcasm intended... I have my own thoughts.. on the pros and cons of certain weapons... at least for me personally.. I'm kinda old school in that as far as an intruder is concerned.. 1 shot..1 kill.. and so therefore, I find no reason what so ever for me 1) waste ammunition 2) To have need of an assault weapon... ie: AK47, Mac10 etc etc... But to be fair.. a Fork, knife, hell even a spoon, could be considered an assault weapon.. in the Literal definition of Assault.. but again, same as the baseball bat, I don't wanna be that close to an intruder... For me, I prefer to have one or two, (if matched set) pistols, preferrably wheel guns.. and a Long rifle, 30/30.. I have a varmit gun, lol.. I live in Nevada in the high desert.. we have varmits..lol so a .22 will do, or hell a pellet gun.. but the point was, one or two and plenty of ammuntion for both. I've heard tell of the "checks n balances" of citizen to gov't, again, in the Literal terms... that technicality in the original writings state Well armed militia.. meaning if they have a tank I can have a tank to be evenly matched on the field of battle..and hey.. for all I know, the way shit is goin in our country, wouldn't surprise me if shots were actually gonna be fired, atm it's a "cold civil war" although... not so sure it hasn't already happened.. somewhere in this country..
Ok.. well thank you... No sarcasm intended... I ha... (show quote)


As I've said, I'm not against 2nd amendment rights, but even the most staunch supporters have to admit that something needs to be done. I live in Pittsburgh, people are going to feel the effects of the tree of life synagogue shooting for a long time. Our constitution was ratified in 1787, a few changes have occurred since then, yet whenever someone mentions addendums and additional controls to that 2nd amendment, people are up in arms, and never once do they give 1 ounce of consideration to the people that have lost a hell of a lot more than they ever stand to lose

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 01:53:50   #
PeterS
 
Larai wrote:
That's good to know Lone, so maybe you could say something more on this whole Gun control the Dems are tryin to get done, and as a citizen pitch a bitch at your congressman... Whatever they have done regarding gun free zones and other Infringments on our 2nd amendment rights!!.. Everything this Gov't is doing, Yes Trump included is a Direct assault on our gun rights and is Direct Infringement..

Tragic that the only thing you can protect yourselves arm yourselves with AR-15's. As for an infringement on your second amendment rights: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I don't think anyone is trying to take away your right to participate in a well-regulated militia. After all, the founders thought a militia necessary for the security of a free state...

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 02:05:40   #
PeterS
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
FORMER Chief Justice Burger.

The idea that the Second Amendment guarantees the right of an individual to own a gun is a "fraud" according to the late Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger. Burger's pronouncement is quoted prominently in current advertising by the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, the tax-exempt arm of Handgun Control, Inc.

Not surprisingly, the advertisements don't cite the place where the former Chief Justice set forth his analysis of the Second Amendment.

Because Burger never said anything about the Second Amendment when he was actually on the Supreme Court. (Half a dozen Supreme Court decisions affirm that the Second Amendment is an individual right.)

Nor did Mr. Burger write anything about the Second Amendment in a scholarly legal or historical journal. (The scholarly consensus is virtually unanimous that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right).

No, the Chief Justice wrote about the Second Amendment in Parade magazine, in a short article in January 1990. (A shorter version was later printed in some newspaper editorials.) This article represents, in a sense, the high-water mark for anti-Second Amendment "scholarship." Because the gun prohibition lobbies will continue to promote the late Mr. Burger's "research" about the Second Amendment.

On June 26, 2008, the Supreme Court affirmed by a vote of 5 to 4 the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit in Heller v. District of Columbia. The Supreme Court struck down provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the Regulations Act was an unconstitutional ban, and struck down the portion of the Regulations Act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock". Prior to this decision the Firearms Control Regulation Act of 1975 also restricted residents from owning handguns except for those registered prior to 1975.

FYI: We do not have "unfettered access to any kind of weapon." Don't believe me? Try me, I'll prove it.
FORMER Chief Justice Burger. br br The idea that ... (show quote)

Research about the Second Amendment? Read it: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So what was the context that the Second Amendment was written? What was the reason for invoking a well-regulated Militia? The short answer is that the founder felt it would pose a danger to the liberty of the people.

So who's in favor of disbanding the military and establishing a well-regulated militia in it's place? Anyone? Didn't think so. So if we don't care enough for the second amendment to actually adhere why are we using it as a shield to protect our guns?

If you want to research the second amendment the following link would be a good place to start. https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24671

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Aug 17, 2019 02:25:47   #
PeterS
 
Larai wrote:
*sighs* It's NOT the damn Gun!!.. It's the Human behind the gun.. that needs fixing, and you are possibly deluding yourself that these nut balls shooting people are getting their guns from their parents gun safe or case, or they are getting them legally, No matter how much you wanna condemn the gun.. they are getting these guns, Mostly on the street Illegally!!..

If you are going to point your finger at people then how is it easier to control them then it is the guns they purchase and use?

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Aug 17, 2019 04:15:46   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
PeterS wrote:
Tragic that the only thing you can protect yourselves arm yourselves with AR-15's. As for an infringement on your second amendment rights: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I don't think anyone is trying to take away your right to participate in a well-regulated militia. After all, the founders thought a militia necessary for the security of a free state...
Don't insult our intelligence by telling us to "research the 2nd Amendment". If you want the context in which it was written, I suggest you read the Federalist Papers (#29 and #46 would be a good start.)

What makes you think that the only thing we can protect ourselves with is an AR15?

Where did you get the idea that our right to bear arms obligates us to "participate in a well-regulated militia"?

Our right to defend our lives and Property is unalienable. That right cannot be taken away from or given away by the possessor, it is inviolable.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State is the prefatory clause in the 2nd amendment.

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed is the operative clause.

Your failure to grasp the concept of this is your problem, not mine.

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 05:44:36   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
alabuck wrote:
———————-


Below is Chief Justice Burger’s article, in its entirety.
Here’s the link to his article, too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/john-paul-stevens-court-failed-gun-control/587272/

I’m afraid you ardent 2nd Amendment followers will be disappointed.

BTW: I own several firearms, pistols, revolvers, even an AR and an AK. I’m not wanting to eliminate private gun ownership. I do believe we need to treat firearms as what they are designed to do, kill and maim.

I’m in favor of much more stringent gun control. I would like to see all gun owners be required to register ALL their firearms.I’d like to see all owners show proof of liability insurance before they can buy a firearm. Owners should be required to demonstrate their ability to safely operate, carry, store, break-down, clean and re-assemble each of their firearms. I believe owners should be retested periodically to demonstrate their proficiencies in these aforementioned categories.

Additionally, there should be a ban on high capacity magazines/clips. Why does anyone need a 30 round clip to hunt with? If you can’t kill your game with 1-2 shots, you need to return to the range as you’re a danger to fellow hunters.
———————- br br br Below is Chief Justice Burger’... (show quote)
In other words you would like to see an inalienable right infringed.

Registration and liability insurance applies to such things a vehicle, owning and driving a vehicle is a privilege granted by the state, it is not a constitutional right.

Every gun owner I have ever known knows how to "safely operate, carry, store, break-down, clean and re-assemble each of their firearms."

Every gun owner I have ever known regularly demonstrates their proficiency with their firearms, they practice, they train, and they shoot.

I don't know any hunter who loads his or her rifle with a 30 round magazine. Even hunters that use an AR15 to hunt varmints don't load the gun with 30 round mags. There are options, it isn't etched in stone that an AR15 must be loaded with high cap mags. There are 5 and 10 round magazines available for the AR.

You do know, don't you, that criminals do not obey laws, that's why the cops go after them after they commit a crime, that's why they are prosecuted and locked up if found guilty. Gun control laws, no matter how stringent or prohibitive you make them, have no effect on the lawless. Gun control laws criminalize law abiding citizens.

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Aug 17, 2019 07:25:05   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
It can be noted that The Federalist Papers were not written to provide a definitive interpretation of the Constitution, but instead to address the question of whether the Constitution should be adopted. Thus, one could assume that, despite their historical significance, they had/have no legal standing.

Federalist Paper No. 29 is an essay by Alexander Hamilton, the twenty-ninth of The Federalist Papers. It was published on January 9, 1788 under the pseudonym Publius, the name under which all The Federalist papers were published. It is titled "Concerning the Militia". Unlike the rest of the Federalist Papers, which were published more or less in order, No. 29 did not appear until after Federalist No. 36.

Hamilton states that a well-regulated (efficient) militia composed of the people will be more uniform and beneficial to the "public defense" of Americans. He argues that an excessively large militia can harm a nation's work force, as not everyone can leave their profession to go through military exercises. Thus, a smaller, but still well-regulated militia, is the answer. In the end, Hamilton concludes that the militia, as it is constituted directly of the people and managed by the states, is not a danger to liberty when called into use by other states to do things such as quell insurrections.

In Federalist No. 46, Madison calculates (quite accurately, BTW) that the new government could support a standing army of no more than 25,000 men, and "to these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. . . . Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

A useful quote, of course. But look at the brilliance of Madison's strategy....

The debate had, until then, been standing army vs. militia, and the federalists were getting the worst of it. The Constitution allowed Congress to form an army with no limitations save that it had to be funded no more than two years at a time (a carryover from British law) and Americans were seriously worried about a standing army (which might just take over the country, or be used by the national government to do so) and strongly supportive of defense by militia instead.

Federalist 46 deals with the issue in imaginative and brilliant form. Madison argues that standing army vs. militia is a false dichotomy. The nation can have both, and it is precisely the militia that makes the standing army a safe thing to have. Let Congress form the largest army it can possibly create, and it would still be greatly outnumbered by armed citizens answering to State-appointed officers. Madison thus neutralizes a key antifederalist argument, and demonstrates that the Army clause of the Constitution is no danger to freedom.

This of course doesn't do much for the "National Guard = militia" claim. With the dual enlistment requirement, Guardsmen must enlist in the regular Army (or other branch) Reserves. When he calls them to duty, the President doesn't use the constitutional power to call out the militia (I'm not even sure the statute implementing that power is still on the books), but legislation enacted pursuant to the Army clause.

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Aug 17, 2019 07:31:36   #
Rose42
 
PeterS wrote:
Research about the Second Amendment? Read it: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So what was the context that the Second Amendment was written? What was the reason for invoking a well-regulated Militia? The short answer is that the founder felt it would pose a danger to the liberty of the people.

So who's in favor of disbanding the military and establishing a well-regulated militia in it's place? Anyone? Didn't think so. So if we don't care enough for the second amendment to actually adhere why are we using it as a shield to protect our guns?

If you want to research the second amendment the following link would be a good place to start. https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24671
Research about the Second Amendment? Read it: A we... (show quote)


For every link there is another that negates it.

The anti gun hysteria is a study in effective use of propaganda.

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 07:38:44   #
PeterS
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Don't insult our intelligence by telling us to "research the 2nd Amendment". If you want the context in which it was written, I suggest you read the Federalist Papers (#29 and #46 would be a good start.)

What makes you think that the only thing we can protect ourselves with is an AR15?

Where did you get the idea that our right to bear arms obligates us to "participate in a well-regulated militia"?

Our right to defend our lives and Property is unalienable. That right cannot be taken away from or given away by the possessor, it is inviolable.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State is the prefatory clause in the 2nd amendment.

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed is the operative clause.

Your failure to grasp the concept of this is your problem, not mine.
Don't insult our intelligence by telling us to &qu... (show quote)

Federalist 29: THE power of regulating the militia, and of commanding its services in times of insurrection and invasion are natural incidents to the duties of superintending the common defense, and of watching over the internal peace of the Confederacy.

It requires no skill in the science of war to discern that uniformity in the organization and discipline of the militia would be attended with the most beneficial effects, whenever they were called into service for the public defense. It would enable them to discharge the duties of the camp and of the field with mutual intelligence and concert an advantage of peculiar moment in the operations of an army; and it would fit them much sooner to acquire the degree of proficiency in military functions which would be essential to their usefulness. This desirable uniformity can only be accomplished by confiding the regulation of the militia to the direction of the national authority. It is, therefore, with the most evident propriety, that the plan of the convention proposes to empower the Union "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, RESERVING TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY THE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS, AND THE AUTHORITY OF TRAINING THE MILITIA ACCORDING TO THE DISCIPLINE PRESCRIBED BY CONGRESS.''

Of the different grounds which have been taken in opposition to the plan of the convention, there is none that was so little to have been expected, or is so untenable in itself, as the one from which this particular provision has been attacked. If a well-regulated militia is the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security. If standing armies are dangerous to liberty, an efficacious power over the militia, in the body to whose care the protection of the State is committed, ought, as far as possible, to take away the inducement and the pretext to such unfriendly institutions. If the federal government can command the aid of the militia in those emergencies which call for the military arm in support of the civil magistrate, it can the better dispense with the employment of a different kind of force. If it cannot avail itself of the former, it will be obliged to recur to the latter. To render an army unnecessary, will be a more certain method of preventing its existence than a thousand prohibitions upon paper.


From Federalist 46: Military and militia

During the ratification debate, many Americans feared that the federal government would become too powerful and too similar to the monarchy in Great Britain. Madison calculated while writing Federalist Paper 46 that the standing military, controlled by the federal government, should be kept under a maximum of 30,000 troops, enough to defend America against other nations but not enough to oppress the states. The people themselves, in conjunction with state cooperation, seen as a more likely alliance than the people allying with the federal government vs. a state, in order to protect themselves from the federal government overpowering them with the threat of a standing army like Great Britain did when King George III sent his battalion to America, were encouraged to constitute a total militia of at least 500,000 people.

Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.


I've been over this before with you--both 29 and 46 support what I've been saying--that a well-regulated militia was to take the place of a freestanding army for the purpose of common defense.

As for the two clauses, the prefatory defines the purpose of the Second Amendment and the operative the right being granted.

Now I know you probably blocked what I just said out, but the prefatory clause states the purpose of the second amendment, you know, why it was written--"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State. What the purpose isn't, is to give you the right to bear arms...

You people, have totally skipped over the purpose of the second amendment all so you could glom onto the right to bear arms--which wasn't why the second was being written. Well again, the question begged is since we don't care about the purpose of the second amendment doesn't that negate the second amendment?

You guys are the constitutionalists--the sticklers for correct interpretation of the constitution. Well, when do you intend to start?

Read the Second Amendment. It tells you exactly why it is in the constitution...

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Aug 17, 2019 07:51:40   #
PeterS
 
slatten49 wrote:
It should be noted that The Federalist Papers were not written to provide a definitive interpretation of the Constitution, but instead to address the question of whether the Constitution should be adopted.

Federalist Paper No. 29 is an essay by Alexander Hamilton, the twenty-ninth of The Federalist Papers. It was published on January 9, 1788 under the pseudonym Publius, the name under which all The Federalist papers were published. It is titled "Concerning the Militia". Unlike the rest of the Federalist Papers, which were published more or less in order, No. 29 did not appear until after Federalist No. 36.

Hamilton states that a well-regulated (efficient) militia composed of the people will be more uniform and beneficial to the "public defense" of Americans. He argues that an excessively large militia can harm a nation's work force, as not everyone can leave their profession to go through military exercises. Thus, a smaller, but still well-regulated militia, is the answer. In the end, Hamilton concludes that the militia, as it is constituted directly of the people and managed by the states, is not a danger to liberty when called into use by other states to do things such as quell insurrections.

In Federalist No. 46, Madison calculates (quite accurately, BTW) that the new government could support a standing army of no more than 25,000 men, and "to these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. . . . Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

A useful quote, of course. But look at the brilliance of Madison's strategy....

The debate had, until then, been standing army vs. militia, and the federalists were getting the worst of it. The Constitution allowed Congress to form an army with no limitations save that it had to be funded no more than two years at a time (a carryover from British law) and Americans were seriously worried about a standing army (which might just take over the country, or be used by the national government to do so) and strongly supportive of defense by militia instead.

Federalist 46 deals with the issue in imaginative and brilliant form. Madison argues that standing army vs. militia is a false dichotomy. The nation can have both, and it is precisely the militia that makes the standing army a safe thing to have. Let Congress form the largest army it can possibly create, and it would still be greatly outnumbered by armed citizens answering to State-appointed officers. Madison thus neutralizes a key antifederalist argument, and demonstrates that the Army clause of the Constitution is no danger to freedom.

This of course doesn't do much for the "National Guard = militia" claim. With the dual enlistment requirement, Guardsmen must enlist in the regular Army (or other branch) Reserves. When he calls them to duty, the President doesn't use the constitutional power to call out the militia (I'm not even sure the statute implementing that power is still on the books), but legislation enacted pursuant to the Army clause.
It should be noted that The Federalist Papers were... (show quote)

It doesn't matter, the Federalist papers support what I have been saying all along--that the well-regulated militia was supposed to replace a freestanding army thus the way the second amendment was written: A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, etc, etc.

Blade is making suppositions by reading what some fringe gun site says after cherry-picking the federalist's contents.

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 08:01:56   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
PeterS wrote:
It doesn't matter, the Federalist papers support what I have been saying all along--that the well-regulated militia was supposed to replace a freestanding army thus the way the second amendment was written: A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, etc, etc.

Blade is making suppositions by reading what some fringe gun site says after cherry-picking the federalist's contents.

No matter how often any of us offer thoughts and/or opinions on the original intent of the 2nd Amendment, SCOTUS's take remains the definitive legal interpretation. So says the US Constitution.

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 08:22:15   #
Rose42
 
PeterS wrote:
It doesn't matter, the Federalist papers support what I have been saying all along--that the well-regulated militia was supposed to replace a freestanding army thus the way the second amendment was written: A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, etc, etc.

Blade is making suppositions by reading what some fringe gun site says after cherry-picking the federalist's contents.


They don’t support your wish that semi autos be banned. Posting in bold doesn’t help you. You are atill using emotion over reason

Reply
Aug 17, 2019 08:24:35   #
Cuda2020
 
Jakebrake wrote:
Interesting statistics!
This jives with the research of Prof. Lott at the University of Chicago, who is a noted expert on gun laws and stats.

Here are some facts.

There are 30,000 gun related death s per year by firearms; this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.00925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
3% are accidental discharge deaths.

So technically, “gun violence” is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.

Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So, if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assaults are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.

But what about other deaths each year?
40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).

Now it gets good:
200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!

710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So, what is the point? If the liberal loons and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.).

A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ……………. Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions! So, you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns?

It’s pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.

Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs . So, the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: “Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed.”
Interesting statistics! br This jives with the res... (show quote)



To compare a person losing their life by a gun and not of their choice, to an accident or illness is complete lunacy and not only not up for debate but not even an argument.

I for one get so tired of the reference to the founders who lived in a much different time and place altogether that the point is moot, just as with Webster.

You want to preserve your family's safety and well being, then all our efforts is not in building up our weaponry, but rather build up and foolproof our constitution. The way to do this is by providing a balanced government and not a one-party rule to be demonstrative over the other as we've been seeing for decades now. Our own government, by the people for the people is our safety and protection to the way of life we hold so dear.
Here are some facts, look at the death or gun injury rate and population to where there are strict gun laws and where they are not. The strictest... are the safest.
http://www.safehome.org/resources/gun-laws-and-deaths/

PS no one is coming to take your guns, pure propaganda, with that said, we now live in a technological era where other choices can be made and should be.

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Aug 17, 2019 13:06:58   #
PeterS
 
Rose42 wrote:
They don’t support your wish that semi autos be banned. Posting in bold doesn’t help you. You are atill using emotion over reason

I post in bold to differentiate between my comments and that which I cut and paste to support my arguments. I do it as a courtesy for the reader--to lessen any confusion. If you think that emotion--well I can't help you there...

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