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Mueller Report Thoroughly Indicts Trump
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Apr 18, 2019 22:32:05   #
Nickolai
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Please, Nik, don't do this to yourself. Fantasizing about who can do what to whom with no regard for our constitution, our justice system, and our laws may assuage the pain of president Trump's innocence in this matter, but what's to be gained by resorting to irrational mush?

You are aware, are you not, that we have three branches of government. The Legislative, Executive, and Judicial are clearly spelled out, in that order, in our constitution. The Legislative Branch (congress) makes the laws, it doesn't enforce them. Congress can investigate to its heart's content, but it cannot file criminal charges for prosecution in a court. The only option congress has is impeachment, and that is a political process, it does not involve legal proceedings in a court. As Mueller's investigation has revealed, the grounds for impeachment are nil. Nothing our president has done deserves an attempt to impeach.

If you had had the guts to listen to AG Barr's public statements on the Mueller investigation, with Deputy AG Rosenstein standing right next to him, you would understand that Mueller made it quite clear there was not sufficient evidence for filing charges of obstruction. Barr also made it clear that Mueller found no instance of Trump, any member of his campaign staff, or any American citizen whatsoever colluded or conspired with any Russian entity to influence the election. I highly recommend you watch AG Barr's presser in its entirety.

For two years, lib progs exalted Robert Mueller as a paragon of virtue, honor, and legal expertise, they placed the fulfillment of all their hopes and dreams in his hands. Now that Mueller has, to some degree, redeemed himself and lived up to your impressions of him, you thumb your arrogant noses at the results of his work and go crashing off through the jungle of liberal progressive machinations.

From where I stand as an American citizen, a sworn defender of our constitution, a patriot, the plots, the intrigues, the conspiracies, the designs, plans, devices, ploys, ruses, tricks, wiles, stratagems, tactics, maneuvers, contrivances, and expedients inherent in progressive ideology will never lead us to the democratic socialist Utopia you dream of.

Go too far in trying to force your inhumane and destructive ideology into our American way of life, and our nation will descend into chaos, anarchy, and bloodshed on a massive scale. Maybe you've gone too far already and the shyte is about to hit the fan. Bear in mind, Nik, there are millions of American citizens who will not yield to the incursions of a political ideology entirely alien to our way of life.

If I may paraphrase Lt Col Nathan Jessup, "you are fking with the wrong Marines."
Please, Nik, don't do this to yourself. Fantasizin... (show quote)





I know all of that. I probably had civics before you were born.
They found plenty of connections between Trump bunch and the Russian s well as obstruction but since there is a long term DOJ policy that sitting presidents cant be prosecuted Mueller left it up to congress and passed 14 criminal investigations to other prosecutors. Forget impeachment He only has a year and a half left to go and the people are going to give him the boot in the ass, and the day after he leaves office will be the worst day of his life. We just have to hope he doesn't decide suicide is the only way out and push the button

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Apr 18, 2019 22:36:50   #
Nickolai
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
I have no doubt where you come up with this garbage. Likely CNN or MSNBC. The facts are these, baby, the approval or denial of FISA warrants, and the issuance thereof are entirely in the hands of the FISA court, not "multiple administrations" (whatever in hell that means). The FISA court is independent of the Justice department, it's all by itself out there.

To be clear, not the president, nor any member of his staff, nor the Justice department (FBI), nor congress can issue a FISA warrant. They can however, based on suspicion or some evidence of a violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, submit through proper legal channels an application for a FISA warrant to the court. The judge or judges will then determine if the evidence presented them is sufficient to issue a warrant.

The case of the Russian "collusion" investigation eventually resulting in the issuance of a FISA warrant and subsequent appointment of a special counsel is fraught with unprecedented violations of protocol and procedures for obtaining such a warrant. Some of these violations are felonies.

The application for a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign originated within the FBI during the Obama admin. FBI director Comey is the principle signatory on the initial application, the evidence he submitted to obtain a warrant was a document concocted by a foreign intelligence operative who colluded with his Russian contacts to fabricate a narrative sufficient to get the warrant. Through a channel of middle men, the Hillary campaign and the DNC paid this operative $130,000 to produce something relating to Donald Trump's activities in Moscow BEFORE he won the GOP nomination. The foreign intelligence operative is named Christopher Steele, the document will forever be known as the "Steele dossier."

To make it clear for you, baby doll, the FISA warrant issued to spy on Carter Page was based on the Steele dossier, the warrant did not exist "waaaaaaaaay before the Steele dossier."

How Comey's FBI Abused FISA Warrants To Spy On The Trump Campaign
I have no doubt where you come up with this garbag... (show quote)






Just what one would expect from a right wing nutter site

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Apr 18, 2019 22:51:47   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
<sigh> I have violated one of my primary tenets:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing ... not only does it waste your time, but it annoys the pig."
Robert Heinlein

Reply
 
 
Apr 18, 2019 23:09:54   #
Fit2BTied Loc: Texas
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
I have no doubt where you come up with this garbage. Likely CNN or MSNBC. The facts are these, baby, the approval or denial of FISA warrants, and the issuance thereof are entirely in the hands of the FISA court, not "multiple administrations" (whatever in hell that means). The FISA court is independent of the Justice department, it's all by itself out there.

To be clear, not the president, nor any member of his staff, nor the Justice department (FBI), nor congress can issue a FISA warrant. They can however, based on suspicion or some evidence of a violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, submit through proper legal channels an application for a FISA warrant to the court. The judge or judges will then determine if the evidence presented them is sufficient to issue a warrant.

The case of the Russian "collusion" investigation eventually resulting in the issuance of a FISA warrant and subsequent appointment of a special counsel is fraught with unprecedented violations of protocol and procedures for obtaining such a warrant. Some of these violations are felonies.

The application for a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign originated within the FBI during the Obama admin. FBI director Comey is the principle signatory on the initial application, the evidence he submitted to obtain a warrant was a document concocted by a foreign intelligence operative who colluded with his Russian contacts to fabricate a narrative sufficient to get the warrant. Through a channel of middle men, the Hillary campaign and the DNC paid this operative $130,000 to produce something relating to Donald Trump's activities in Moscow BEFORE he won the GOP nomination. The foreign intelligence operative is named Christopher Steele, the document will forever be known as the "Steele dossier."

To make it clear for you, baby doll, the FISA warrant issued to spy on Carter Page was based on the Steele dossier, the warrant did not exist "waaaaaaaaay before the Steele dossier."

How Comey's FBI Abused FISA Warrants To Spy On The Trump Campaign
I have no doubt where you come up with this garbag... (show quote)
Thank you Blade_Runner. I was going to point out the absurdity of what whitnebrat said, but you did that in spades. I guess that poor "blue dot in a sea of red" is having a hard time dealing with the outcome of the vaunted Mueller Report.

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Apr 18, 2019 23:35:50   #
Fit2BTied Loc: Texas
 
whitnebrat wrote:
<sigh> I have violated one of my primary tenets:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing ... not only does it waste your time, but it annoys the pig."
Robert Heinlein
I'm a Heinlein fan. Did you know he also said:
"The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."

"Anything free costs twice as much in the long run or turns out worthless."

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."

"The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance."

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

"Democracy can survive anything except Democrats"

He was a complicated gentleman. And a crazy awesome author.

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Apr 18, 2019 23:53:56   #
Nickolai
 
Fit2BTied wrote:
I'm a Heinlein fan. Did you know he also said:
"The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."

"Anything free costs twice as much in the long run or turns out worthless."

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."

"The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance."

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

"Democracy can survive anything except Democrats"

He was a complicated gentleman. And a crazy awesome author.
I'm a Heinlein fan. img src="https://static.onep... (show quote)






So was the wild west a polite society ??? They had open carry and dead men told no tales as the saying went

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Apr 19, 2019 00:04:40   #
Fit2BTied Loc: Texas
 
Nickolai wrote:
So was the wild west a polite society ??? They had open carry and dead men told no tales as the saying went
Not sure about the "Wild West", but folks here in Texas are polite for the most part. Of course you always have a few bad apples in the barrel. But you can core them them with a well placed 9 mil or turn them into applesauce with a 45.

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Apr 19, 2019 00:42:25   #
emarine
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Ahem ... that's not what it said. It stated that there was not enough evidence to prove the legal definition of either collusion/conspiracy or obstruction. It did NOT state that either one did not occur, only that there was no chargeable offense based on available evidence. In the case of the obstruction, there probably was enough, but since a sitting president cannot be indicted, there were no charges.




collusion...conspiracy or obstruction of justice?... Na more like obstruction of reality for Trump...

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Apr 19, 2019 09:13:31   #
jimpack123 Loc: wisconsin
 
Liberty Tree wrote:
They only see in the report what they want to see, whether it is there or not.


I can not see how anybody can defend POTUS Trump. I understand that the hard right wing GOP will defend him. We can only hope that a faithful member of the GOP runs against Trump. To save the GRAND OLE PARTY.

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Apr 19, 2019 09:38:44   #
Wonttakeitanymore
 
slatten49 wrote:
Much of the "spin" is, was and will continue from the White House.

BTW, I said nothing about spin. Mr. Newman did in writing his article above.


Give it up! The spinners(liars) are ovomit, hellery and those that support them!!

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Apr 19, 2019 09:43:08   #
jimpack123 Loc: wisconsin
 
Wonttakeitanymore wrote:
Give it up! The spinners(liars) are ovomit, hellery and those that support them!!


POTUS TRUMP MAKES Nixon LOOK LIKE A SAINT

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Apr 19, 2019 09:52:16   #
emarine
 
jimpack123 wrote:
I can not see how anybody can defend POTUS Trump. I understand that the hard right wing GOP will defend him. We can only hope that a faithful member of the GOP runs against Trump. To save the GRAND OLE PARTY.




Exactly... How Republicans can turn a blind eye concerning Trump is truly unreal... Anyone who supports a thug protected by a fleet of lawyers capable of subverting the law is unreal... anyone who supports a fake Republican who subverts reality is unreal... I cant believe Trump supporters think they are conservative's... I believe Mueller is an honorable man & Trump isn't... very simple... the truth is now here... at this point anyone who supports suppressing the truth isn't a real American citizen... It is every American citizen's responsibility to demand the truth from Government... if our dully elected President is undermining our system by suppressing the truth and you allow it... what are you?... MAGA my ass people & enjoy ...

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Apr 19, 2019 09:55:20   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Mueller didn't charge Trump — but his report is a brutal indictment

Jonathan Allen

President Donald Trump has evaded criminal charges — but special counsel Robert Mueller’s report is a brutal indictment of his campaign and his presidency.

The first volume of the two-part, 448-page report details how Trump and his allies solicited, encouraged, accepted and benefited from the assistance provided by America's most storied foreign adversary as part of a multi-front assault on American democracy.

The other lays out comprehensive evidence that the president may have obstructed justice through what Mueller described as a "pattern of conduct" that included firing FBI Director Jim Comey, trying to remove Mueller, publicly praising and condemning witnesses, and seeking to limit the scope of the probe.

Taken in sum, Mueller's findings reveal three years of actions by Trump and his subordinates that critics say rattle the very foundations of the American system of governance, from the sacrosanct nature of democratic elections to the idea that no man, not even the president, is above the law.

The story, in even its most sympathetic telling, is one of a president who used nearly every power vested in his office and his persona — including hiring and firing, the bully pulpit, party loyalty, private intimidation, and disinformation — to cover up ties between his campaign and Russia so that he could spare himself the public humiliation of having won an election that wasn't entirely on the level.

Of the marquee reports written for Congress over the decades about presidential scandals, the Mueller report will stand out for the brazenness of the chief executive — and for the degree to which insubordination among his underlings reined him in, if only at the margins.

"If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” Mueller wrote. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment."

Only an hour or so before the report was rolled out, Attorney General William Barr, who was picked for his job after writing that a president cannot obstruct justice, said that the report found "no collusion" between Trump and Russia — an expression that Mueller painstakingly explained in the report is of no legal consequence. It is, however, a favorite term of art of one Donald J. Trump.

Some of Trump's allies on Capitol Hill were satisfied, without reading the report, that Trump came out a clear winner — exonerated because he was not prosecuted.

"We know the conclusions of the #MuellerReport: No collusion, no further indictments," Rep. Dan Crenshaw, R-Texas, tweeted. "It's over. We also know the spin, and we know that many people will still claim the President is guilty. I'll be reading the report in its entirety. No spin, just facts."

But Democrats saw in Mueller's report a delineation between the powers afforded the executive and legislative branches when it comes to judging the actions of a president.

Trump's own employees, including Barr and Mueller, did not move forward with a prosecution — indeed, Mueller wrote that he determined Justice Department guidance precluded him from doing so. But he also noted that Congress, which does not report to the president, has its own set of powers.

"The acts of obstruction of justice, whether they are criminal or not, are deeply alarming in the president of the United States," House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said Thursday. "And it's clear that special counsel Mueller wanted the Congress to consider the repercussions and the consequences."

Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said Mueller had laid out a "roadmap" for Congress.

It's hard to fathom how a lengthy report in the public domain is better for Trump than the top-line declaration of a clean bill of health he got from Attorney General William Barr a few weeks ago. And there will be plenty more public discussion of the details of Mueller's findings. Already, the special counsel has been invited to Capitol Hill to testify about his conclusions.

Democrats will no doubt use their power in the House to extract as much political pain from Trump as possible and do so while making the case that they are simply standing up for small-"d" democratic values.
And while the political bar for removing Trump is likely insurmountable — it would take 20 Republicans and all 47 Senate Democrats to oust him — the behavior chronicled by Mueller towers over that of the standard set by the House for impeachment of President Bill Clinton on obstruction articles, according to experts.

Kim Wehle, a law professor at the University of Baltimore who investigated Clinton as part of Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr's team, said beyond that the Trump case is "infinitely more serious" than the one she worked on.

"Here we've got a hostile foreign power and the evidence is overwhelming that their objective was to attack our free and fair process," she said.

Frank O. Bowman III, a professor at the University of Missouri School of Law and author of the forthcoming book "High Crimes and Misdemeanors: A History of Impeachment for the Age of Trump" said the Mueller report suggests the president committed impeachable offenses.

"The issue for impeachment is not whether a criminal statute was violated but whether a president engaged in a pattern of activity inconsistent with his obligation to take care that the law be faithfully executed and instead sought to use his authority to undercut the institutions and norms of the justice system to benefit himself," he said. "The second half of the Mueller report strongly supports such a conclusion as to Trump."

Bowman said Trump's conduct tracked with that of President Richard Nixon, but that the refusal of Trump's subordinates to follow his orders — very likely with the Nixon example in mind — may end up saving the president politically.

"The fact that they refused doesn't change the constitutional impeachment calculus at all," he said. "Still, the fact that he was so often restrained will make it easy for Republicans in Congress to wave off his otherwise impeachable behavior."

If that's the case, the question of whether Mueller's findings render Trump unfit for office will rest with the jury he's always wanted: the voters. But the special counsel's report is an indelible testament to the president's weakness in seeking Russian aid and in deceiving the nation about it.

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Apr 19, 2019 10:01:01   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
jimpack123 wrote:
I can not see how anybody can defend POTUS Trump. I understand that the hard right wing GOP will defend him. We can only hope that a faithful member of the GOP runs against Trump. To save the GRAND OLE PARTY.


Have you taken a good hard look at the characters your Progressive Party has elected lately? Your party is like a bunch of monkeys trying to molest a football. They're absolutely nuts!

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Apr 19, 2019 10:11:37   #
rebob14
 
slatten49 wrote:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-mueller-report-thoroughly-indicts-trump-193651086.html

Rick Newman, Yahoo Finance. April 18, 2019

Special counsel Robert Mueller found no evidence linking President Donald Trump to any crimes involving Russian interference with the 2016 U.S. election. And he declined to prosecute Trump for obstructing justice or interfering with prosecutors investigating the Russian interference.

But the 448-page Mueller report contains numerous damning details of Trump asking subordinates to obstruct justice on his behalf, condoning other people’s crimes, covering up facts, telling people to lie and lying himself. Trump may avoid prosecution, but critics will feast for years on the mendacity Mueller revealed. Even some Trump supporters may question their fealty to a president now revealed to operate like a mob boss, except with poorer judgment.

Anybody interested in Mueller’s findings should read the report for themselves. It’s a complicated document with threads that partisans can spin almost any way they want. And the overarching narrative is confounding, because Trump repeatedly sought ways to quash an investigation into a crime he apparently didn’t commit. Trump acted guilty of something Mueller himself found no evidence of.

It’s good news that the Trump campaign did not work deliberately with Russia during the 2016 election. Yet, there were numerous contacts between Trump campaign officials and representatives of Russia, with nobody from the campaign ever thinking to tell the FBI about them. Maybe Trump acted guilty because he realized at some point that his campaign’s contacts with Russia were fishy, at a minimum, and might look a lot worse than that to a zealous prosecutor.

How did Trump act guilty? Some of his paranoia was on public display, through the recurring “witch hunt” tweets and statements meant to discredit the Mueller investigation before we knew anything about its findings. And Trump seemed to publicly threaten witnesses such as Michael Cohen, who might testify against him.

Trump went much further than that, as the Mueller report now reveals. On June 14, 2017, according to the Mueller report, Trump called White House Counsel Donald McGahn and told him to have Justice Department leadership fire Mueller — which probably would have been obstruction of justice. McGahn declined to do that, one of several times people around Trump prevented overt crimes from happening. “The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful,” the Mueller report states, “but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.”

After McGahn refused to have Mueller fired, Trump tried to have former campaign aide Corey Lewandowski pass a message to former Attorney General Jeff Sessions about Mueller. Trump wanted Sessions to publicly exonerate him of any crimes, and to limit the Mueller investigation so it excluded investigation into Trump’s personal behavior. Lewandowsky didn’t want to deliver the message and tried to get a White House advisor to do it. Neither delivered the message to Sessions, who apparently never got it.

In June 2017, news organizations began to learn of the now-notorious meeting at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, between representatives of the Russian government and Trump campaign officials, including Trump’s son Don, Jr. That meeting was about compromising information Russia had obtained on Hillary Clinton, Trump’s general-election opponent, which Russia offered to share with the Trump campaign. But once news of that meeting broke a year later, Trump told press aids to lie to news organizations, saying the meeting was really about policies toward adopting Russian babies.

“Each of these efforts by the President involved his communication team and was directed at the press,” the Mueller report found. “They would amount to obstructive acts only if the President, by taking those actions, sought to withhold information from or mislead congressional investigators of the Special Counsel.” Lying to the media, in other words, isn’t a crime, so Trump is off the hook on that one, too.

In January 2018, press reports recounted Trump’s effort to have McGahn get Mueller fired seven months earlier. That story was accurate, but Trump, through a personal lawyer, asked McGahn to put out a statement denying what had, in fact, taken place. Trump, in other words, asked McGahn to lie, so Trump wouldn’t look bad. McGahn refused.

‘President knew Cohen provided false testimony’'

It’s also not a crime, evidently, if you knowingly let somebody else commit perjury on your behalf. Cohen, Trump’s former lawyer, pled guilty to lying to Congress about Trump’s pursuit of a real-estate project in Russia, saying the project ended by January 2016 when in fact it continued until at least June 2016. Cohen told Congress earlier this year that Trump knew Cohen would be lying and did nothing to discourage him.

The Mueller report corroborates that. “There is evidence … that the President knew Cohen provided false testimony to Congress about the Trump Tower Moscow project,” the Mueller report said. But “the evidence available to us does not establish that the President directed or aided Cohen's false testimony.”

Once Cohen began cooperating with prosecutors, Trump publicly called Cohen a “rat” and made what sounded like veiled threats of government legal action against his family. Obstruction? Here’s what Mueller found: “The President's statements insinuating that members of Cohen's family committed crimes after Cohen began cooperating with the government could be viewed as an effort to retaliate against Cohen and chill further testimony adverse to the President by Cohen or others.” There’s some evidence of a crime, in other words. Yet, Mueller still felt this didn’t reach the threshold required for prosecution.

There are many more examples in the Mueller report of Trump behaving in ways that might sound illegal to ordinary people, but don’t rise to what seems to be a very high Justice Department bar for prosecuting the president. Partisans, pundits, legal experts and historians will debate Mueller’s findings for a long time, and voters will of course get to render their own judgment once the 2020 election finally rolls around.

At a simpler level, however, the Mueller report reveals behavior many Americans would not normally tolerate in business executives, educators, religious leaders, local politicians or their own family members. Trump may not have committed crimes he can be prosecuted for. But he came damn close, and another prosecutor might have been less deferential. No wonder Trump tried to kill the Mueller investigation.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-mueller-report-... (show quote)


Really! It’s nothing more than priming Pablum for the next round of prog base station keeping. This entire “debate” resembles nothing so much as sixth grade girls vying for being most popular.......demeaning and disgusting for the country!

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