permafrost Loc: Minnesota

True, my opinion is not worth spit...

This all leaves me in a bind. I do not trust market forces, you are right in that. But I also do not trust politics or Govt BS artists..

I think that my problem with big oil is lack of options.. A buddy was saying that big Pharma had higher profit margins than oil. That is true if you do not fudge over accounting methods.. But in theory, a biochemist could mfg a drug in his garage, I do not mean a Meth lab drug, real meds.. and get cleared and sell it.. Far from that simple but possible... with oil if you have the product you have full control as the market exists today.. I know that is over simplified but more or less my feelings.. No choice or alternative to oil and their products..

emarine

To look at the current oil consumption in the us compared to other country's and not see a problem is foolish, we waste more oil than others consume, oil and energy are the main causes of conflict on earth, back in 2000 when Putin came in power he restructured Russia's energy policy providing funding for the government, In 2000 when W was elected he gave tax incentives to consume more oil creating profits to the oil industry while defunding R&D in green energy, Too very different approaches for the future, What we are seeing in the Ukraine is energy related and Russia has a lot more oil than we do. To be a super power you need to control the supply of energy. I think that short term gains has clouded our judgment.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Very well said... good post.. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

So you trust no one, have no confidence in markets despite the successes that market economies consistently play in reducing poverty.

Meanwhile, that guy in his garage discovering some great new cure sure better watch out for the FDA. The last I knew the cheapest double blind test of any new drug for the market cost a least 100 million dollars to conduct - and my neice is a researcher and has been involved with such activities for Alzheimers - she'll be surprised by the ease of introducing a drug - I'll forward your message to her.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

So, now you have Putin envy - and still have Bush hatred based on false accusations - Bush was the big bad oil boogie man every time gasoline prices increased - despite being out of office now for 5 years he still seems to be the guy responsible for higher prices than we ever saw when he was in office - poor Obama, powerless, damned Bush evil, and the great leader Putin. Some real deep thinking going on here.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Well you missed my point.. Tryed to say, big oil enjoys a real monopoly by controlling all of the product. All oil cos have the same end in mind and all work toward that end. Big Pharma has a monopoly via regulation. Their is a possibility of development of similar/more product. As I stated in Theory....Last med product I looked at had been developed and funded by the govt at Michigan State and one phama co gained the rights via single licensing. Can not have any competition for the same med...

But this post is about big oil, let us not move the thread...

By all mean forward my post, but include all of it, not only your interpretation.. as she works for pharma she will without doubt see as you do in any case...

Brian Devon

The market fixes a lot of things. For Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Patrick Henry it solved their labor concerns about how much to pay the help. They instituted free market rules that allowed them to pay the going rate of "zero dollars a day". Of course they backed up the "free market" with local militias designed to look for "runaways".
Smartly, led by Mr. Liberty, Patrick Henry, they deduced that these free market enforcers should always have the right to bear arms.

The philosophical heirs to these free marketeers are the members of the Republican party. The nation, in the last 2 presidential elections, has told these "free marketeers" what they could do with their political philosophy.


The real philosophy of the petro-coal-criminals, "socialize the risks, privatize the profits." Kind of like what the Virginia planters did during the revolutionary war. Not so much has changed.

As far as Alzheimer's research goes, your niece should probably start with you.......your love of the chickenhawk profiteers, GW Bush and Dick Cheney is probably the beginning signs of dementia.

emarine

I don't think its envy its facing facts... Putin did what was in the best interest of Russia... Bush did what was in the best interest of big business, It comes down to different systems do things differently, Russia has little debt and has built up a world class military, We have major debt because of our world class Military ... I good review of the energy industry over the last 100 years tells a very interesting story and can give some insight into our future.

emarine

One more thing to think about , Both Bush and Putin started out in 2000, Where were we then compared to now. Do the same research for Russia..

vernon

you know absoulty nothing about off shore drilling maybe you should just stick to global warming.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Even at my advanced age, I want to learn. Do you know anything worth my knowing? Go ahead, I will read..

Terry Hamblin

Perma, I think that you are in California and as such, you are proud of your stand against pollution and you are sure that all of the wonderful things that California has contributed to everyone's health through catalytic converters and valves that redirect nasty fumes back into the injectors of the engine etc. is way better than anyone else has done. Change a broken catalytic converter, 1400$, change out one of the little, plastic valves that keep us safe, 500$. Ethanol works Perma, at least it takes up space in the gas tank if that counts! There are ethanol laced gasolines on the market that will destroy your engine if your engine was not designed for it! Bought any sweet corn lately? Price of sweet corn has sky rocketed because the farmers are making really good money growing corn for ethanol production. Think about it, if ethanol was useful, would the refineries shutdown to dump it in the gas for the summer, but not the winter?

Energy production has been neglected for 30 years, the U.N. fostered the nuclear moratorium in 1985, and since then the power companies have been like cats covering crap on the freeway during rush hour! The grid is old and crumbling, energy production under the EPA rules will soon have us paying 5$ a kilowatt to keep the lights on, but I guess it's good because California says it is. How rich does one have to be to live in California?? :(

Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon

If we do it do it right.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Terry, look at my ID tab, it tells where I am from...

Cars in my state have catalytic converters, pcv valves, That is probably the "little plastic part" that concerns you, I paid once to replace that, I was robbed $20 buck to do that. Never had to replace a converter, but usually only get 190,000 mi or so out of a car..

If your car is not designed to burn ethanol, what the hell are doing putting it in the tank at all?

I once made a still and produced a bit of ethanol, burned it in an old JD tractor, did fine, I could not detect any lose of power and found no problem with the engine..

Those fields of corn you look at, they are not sweet corn, they are not meant to be fed to people. That is animal feed, for cattle and hogs.. The fact that it can also make alcohol is minor..


The first opponent to nuclear energy I met was a Hungarian refugee on a construction job one summer long ago. He tossed gasoline bombs at Russian tanks so I paid attention. I remain convinced that as nuclear exists today is not the right solution.. We will have more Chernobyl and whatever the Japanese plant is called..

The grid is old and like much of Americas infrastructure needs to be rebuilt.. Congress needs to agree with Obama and get the work done.. Many good jobs and a great need. It can be done, when the 35 bridge fell in Minneapolis, they got the replacement designed and built in record time.. When the pols stop fighting they can accomplish the task, now as always..

About your feud with California, I can not help you I was at pendleton and San Diego for a couple years. I like the state a lot but it has more people then I care to deal with..








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ninetogo

________________________________________________
Hitler had no oil wells during world war II, but Germany had vast supplies of coal. The bituminous coal was mined and the coal oil was extracted; the coal oil was refined into a high grade of fuel that was used to fuel his
Luftwaffe aircraft, Panza tank divisions, Marine Fleets and all other internal combustion powered vehicles.

The refining process was developed by two German engineers named Franz Fischer and Hans Tropsch in 1925. The process converts a mixture of Hydrogen and Carbon Monoxide into liquid Hydrocarbons, which is the base stock used to produce synthetic fuels and synthetic lubricating oils.

Present day, the current Administration is very intent on destroying the coal industry within the US; rather than destroy the coal industry in the US, use this infrastructure to provide the coal for conversion into synthetic fuels. This would help to erase our dependency on foreign crude supplies. The refining cost would be slightly less than refining high sulfur content crude oil. The synthetic fuels (gasoline and diesel) could be modified to mimic the fungible grades of fuel that we currently use.
The same refining process could be used to produce 'White Crude' out of natural gas, which could be refined to make synthetic automotive fuels. Who do you think has suppressed this technology? The economics are self evident!