Evangelicals and Israel (Page 2): I am not going to argue theology with you out of respect for your faith, but as pertains what I said about Hagee, here is an interesting article:...

rumitoid

Zemirah wrote:

John Hagee is one of our nations most consistent defenders of Israel, but he's never tried to hasten Armageddon. God's timing will be perfect.

I don't agree with the "two covenant" salvation aspect of his theology on Christianity, but his view point on the ownership of the land of Israel is consistent with scripture.

God's covenant with Israel on Eretz Israel is eternal.

I am not going to argue theology with you out of respect for your faith, but as pertains what I said about Hagee, here is an interesting article: http://www.jewsonfirst.org/07a/pushback_armageddon.html

Brian Devon

rumitoid wrote:

I am not going to argue theology with you out of respect for your faith, but as pertains what I said about Hagee, here is an interesting article: http://www.jewsonfirst.org/07a/pushback_armageddon.html

Jews might want to read the fine print on a "friendship" agreement with right wing evangelicals. Their loony-tunes blueprint for the "end times", is for Israel to keep the landing strip warm and well lit for Jesus' return. When he comes back, there will be a "rapture" to pick up all the righteous true believers and take them into heaven, with white SUVs, armed with easy-rider rifle racks and Dixie bumper stickers. The plan for the Jews, is that if they don't convert they get to ride to hell in very old Yugos.

saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina

Thats my fear. I worry about folks that support Israel because they believe a Jewish Israel is necessary for the second coming, I don't care if they believe that anybody not believing in the divinity of Jesus is bound for hell. This is America, people can believe, not believe anything they want!

Brian Devon wrote:

Jews might want to read the fine print on a "... (show quote)

rumitoid

Brian Devon wrote:

Jews might want to read the fine print on a "... (show quote)

It really is amazing, isn't it? Was pretty certain the Bible said to go forth and preach to all nations and not bring all nations into an apocalyptic showdown while one takes the elevator to the luxurious penthouse suite to sit on comfy clouds and cheer for your team. Guess I need to check scripture again.

Liberty Tree

saltwind 78 wrote:

Thats my fear. I worry about folks that support Israel because they believe a Jewish Israel is necessary for the second coming, I don't care if they believe that anybody not believing in the divinity of Jesus is bound for hell. This is America, people can believe, not believe anything they want!

What people believe is not the final determination of truth. Something can be true even if nobody believes it and something can be false even if everyone believes it.

Homestead

saltwind 78 wrote:

Thats my fear. I worry about folks that support Israel because they believe a Jewish Israel is necessary for the second coming, I don't care if they believe that anybody not believing in the divinity of Jesus is bound for hell. This is America, people can believe, not believe anything they want!

Is it important to believe in right and wrong?

Is it OK for a country that is self governed, to be ignorant and uninformed?

Walid Shoebat - Why Islam is the Antichrist 1 of 22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OxKMxds-P8

Why I Left Jihad ? Ex-Muslim militant Speaks Out - Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPe8NtArqiE

Interview With Walid Sheobat at 700 Club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtvhtK8Ol98

Story of 3 former Islamic Terrorists accepting Jesus Christ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uIOIG-mlE8

Three Stages of Jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_468896&feature=iv&src_vid=-SoXs0_rHY&v=ERou_Q5l9Gw

American Muslim Children Taught to Hate
http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/american-muslim-children-taught-hate?fb_action_ids=932408324544&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[467490229988102]&action_type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

rumitoid wrote:

I am not going to argue theology with you out of respect for your faith, but as pertains what I said about Hagee, here is an interesting article: http://www.jewsonfirst.org/07a/pushback_armageddon.html

I've read literally hundreds of magazines and newsletters similar to this, Rumi. It's completely wrong about John Hagee.

Every Jewish denomination, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist, as well as the ultra-Orthodox, the Hasidim, etc., all have their own viewpoints.

The desire to have a theocracy was more of a John Calvin precept, found to different degrees in Presbyterian theology, not in Baptist.

They sound very similar to an organization called Jews for Judaism, whose focus is the prevention of Jews converting to Christianity.

The articles on their website are interesting only from their misunderstanding of the denominations within Christianity, and the assignation of the doctrines of one denomination to another.

The really sad thing is for a present-day group hated and pursued by Iran and other Islamic Jihadists to be preoccupied with the "threat" of Christianity.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

saltwind 78 wrote:

Thats my fear. I worry about folks that support Israel because they believe a Jewish Israel is necessary for the second coming, I don't care if they believe that anybody not believing in the divinity of Jesus is bound for hell. This is America, people can believe, not believe anything they want!

God will set the stage for His next act. It isn't up to any man or group to bring it about.

Saltwind, according to the scriptures of the Prophets of the Tanakh, there will be a Jewish Israel when the final prophecies are fulfilled. They are there now, and will never be removed from their land. That's God's doing.

There is no Christian group I know of that believes they can bring about Christ's return.

The Wycliffe Bible Translators are working on translating the Bible into the remaining 1,900 languages on earth that do not have God's Word in their own language, out of the 6,900 extant languages.

Wycliffe has adopted Vision 2025an initiative to see a Bible translation program in progress in every language still needing one by 2025. That's "in progress", not finished.

That's the closest thing I can think of, to what you're saying, because, Jesus said, "This gospel will be preached to the entire world, and then the end will come."

No one will be forced to accept that message. That's up to them, but everyone is to hear it, and have the opportunity to believe.

It is the Shi'a Twelvers of Iran, who believe they have to create "chaos' and bloodshed, to bring their Mahdi out of the medieval well he disappeared into, that should concern the world.

Brian Devon

The Wycliffe Bible Translators are working on translating the Bible into the remaining 1,900 languages on earth that do not have God's Word in their own language, out of the 6,900 extant language.

I heard the residents of the New Guinea highlands have all ready warned their neighbors to draw their shades, blow out the candles in their huts...and pretend they're not home!

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Brian Devon wrote:

The Wycliffe Bible Translators are working on translating the Bible into the remaining 1,900 languages on earth that do not have God's Word in their own language, out of the 6,900 extant language.

I heard the residents of the New Guinea highlands have all ready warned their neighbors to draw their shades, blow out the candles in their huts...and pretend they're not home!

I'm sure the residents of the New Guinea highlands already have a translation of the Bible in their language.

I'm also sure they're neither cowards, nor so closed minded they would not want to hear what is being said to them.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

rumitoid wrote:

It really is amazing, isn't it? Was pretty certain the Bible said to go forth and preach to all nations and not bring all nations into an apocalyptic showdown while one takes the elevator to the luxurious penthouse suite to sit on comfy clouds and cheer for your team. Guess I need to check scripture again.

It's your attitude. There's nothing wrong with your scriptures.

Brian Devon

Zemirah wrote:

I'm sure the residents of the New Guinea highlands already have a translation of the Bible in their language.

I'm also sure they're neither cowards, nor so closed minded they would not want to hear what is being said to them.

The word that applies is not "coward". Its called "smart". Much of the world no longer has a need for fairy tales. Some actually prefer to hear about science...

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

I believe it was Britain that promised Islamic Arabs and Turks their land and territory of Pre-War time if they would fight against Hitler with them. They did fight with Britain against Hitler. However, at the end of WWII, the League of Nations gave Israel back to the Jews, as they migrated through lands once again looking for a country to live in.
A Promise was broken, and many Arabs, Turks, died for that promise. The arabs, feeling right that Israel should have been theirs per Britains promise continue to hate Israel- though displaced as their anger is.
This helped fuel Islams anger towards the west, as well as Israel..I It is as it is however, and after all these years the west- Including Britain, needs to stand by Israel.

timmh67 wrote:

Here's the issue! A highly funded and well organized group of evangelicals are now taking groups of young people to Israel to show them the "suffering Palestinians." These young people are being told that the suffering of the Palestinians is Israel's fault. WRONG!

It's true the Palestinian's are suffering and have been suffering since 1948 because of Arab leadership. On May 15, 1948, Israel became a State. The next day, five Arab armies attacked the Jews in an effort to kill the State of Israel in the birth canal. Arab leaders told the Arabs living in the war zone to leave the area and as soon as the Jews were defeated, they could return to their homes and live in a Jew-free environment. Miraculously, the Israelis won that war.

Now you have 600,000 Arabs living without homes at the instruction of Arab leaders. These 600,000 suffering Arabs became known as "Palestinian Refugees." They instantly became a propaganda weapon in the media war against Israel. The accusation was that "Israel was the blame." WRONG! Arab leaders caused this situation; not Israel.

Fast forward to the Bill Clinton Administration when President Clinton met at Camp David with Yassar Arafat, the self-proclaimed "sole representative of the Palestinian people" and Prime Minister Barak of Israel. At Camp David, Israel offered Yassar Arafat everything he had asked to achieve a peace agreement. Yassar Arafat instantly said, "NO!" Why? Because the Palestinians have a charter calling for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews.

It is true the Palestinians have suffered for 60 years; the source of their suffering has been the abuse of Arabs who have used them as a pawn for their own personal and political objectives.

The objective of these newly formed evangelicals called "millennialists" taking young people to Israel and showing them "the suffering Palestinians" is to neutralize their affection and support of Israel. They are quick to say, "We support Israel but look at the suffering Palestinians!" The question is, "How can you love and support Israel and blame Israel for 60 years of suffering by the Palestinians caused by Arab leadership?" When you don't know the history of the problem, it's easy to reach a false conclusion.

Be certain that the Word of God has given the land to the Jewish people forever. They have the right to defend themselves from all enemies that attack them. They have the right to secure borders just like any other democracy. "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you" Genesis 12:3.

Here's the issue! A highly funded and well organiz... (show quote)

Brian Devon

rumitoid wrote:

It really is amazing, isn't it? Was pretty certain the Bible said to go forth and preach to all nations and not bring all nations into an apocalyptic showdown while one takes the elevator to the luxurious penthouse suite to sit on comfy clouds and cheer for your team. Guess I need to check scripture again.

And in that luxurious penthouse will reside Jimmy Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Baker, Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church, and James Haggee. Would anyone really want to hang out with those folks.

I would much rather hang out with the ghosts of Groucho Marx, Mae West, WC Fields, George Carlin, and Sam Kinison (who left us much too soon).

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

Brian Devon wrote:

I agree with your remarks. I am a supporter of the... (show quote)

ohboyohboy Can't wait to see the comments on this post Brian! :thumbup: