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God's Love
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Jan 1, 2016 15:32:55   #
Richard94611
 
My point exactly.

Greg Brady wrote:
I try to look at this from a perspective that's fair to Rufus's point of view, Is it fair to expect control over things like pain and suffering from a guy who doesn't exist?

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Jan 1, 2016 15:41:36   #
Theo Loc: Within 1000 miles of Tampa, Florida
 
Richard94611 wrote:
I guess you are one of the folks who also parrot "God's ways are inexplicable to man," too.


Job said "Yea, though He slay me, yet will I trust Him."

Kinda' says it all.

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Jan 1, 2016 15:45:12   #
Theo Loc: Within 1000 miles of Tampa, Florida
 
Rufus wrote:
Of course He is Richard. I do not always agree with God or understand His ways . I never understood animal sacrifices, because I love animals. He is the creator. We must surrender to Him. I believe He will eventually explain many things to us that we are not capable of understanding. Not that He has to. He is God. We are just His creation. he does not owe us anything. He has already given us life, food, water, clothing, housing, women, talents, sk**ls, jobs, money, hearts, souls and the list goes on. It is all about recognizing Him as God and trusting Him. Period. It is simple but in our evil we want to make it complex. It is not.
Of course He is Richard. I do not always agree wit... (show quote)


What makes you think God gives us women? Have you ever compared Men's gift of women, with Woman's gift of Men?

Men had to wait - Women arrived pre-gifted; (i.e., didn't have to wait at all.)

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Jan 1, 2016 15:46:25   #
Richard94611
 
Yes, one of the greatest expressions of foolishness in the Bible.

Theo wrote:
Job said "Yea, though He slay me, yet will I trust Him."

Kinda' says it all.

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Jan 1, 2016 15:51:10   #
Greg Brady Loc: Phoenix
 
Theo wrote:
Job said "Yea, though He slay me, yet will I trust Him."

Kinda' says it all.


kinda reminds me of the frat boy in the opening of that movie Animal house "thank you sir, may I have another? "

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Jan 1, 2016 16:11:31   #
Richard94611
 
The movie "Animal House" was based on a set of real-life characters who were members of the Alpha Delta Phi fraternity at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire back around 1958-1960. I was not a member of any fraternity, but I knew a lot of people in ADP, and when I look at that movie I see people who were real and whom I recognize. Many of those original people have died, but their image will live forever.

Greg Brady wrote:
kinda reminds me of the frat boy in the opening of that movie Animal house "thank you sir, may I have another? "

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Jan 1, 2016 16:19:42   #
Theo Loc: Within 1000 miles of Tampa, Florida
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Refus has stated that God is all good and that He is all powerful. If He is all powerful, then He can accomplish anything He wants in any way He wishes to. This leaves us with the interesting philosophical question of why there is pain and suffering in the world.


God made Man in His own image; only we are temporarily in flesh and blood. It is a training period. God made us Elohim, which means if we make it to heaven, we will be Gods.

Why would He jeopardize His own domain by allowing a bunch of self-centered, "me-first" stumbling, bumbling, cry-babies into Brotherhood with God, when a simple training period will eliminate all the problems that go with Humanity?

He gives us gifts so we will not be completely without hint or evidence, and He blesses us all with life and necessities for living. And He asks us to work just a tad for the rewards of everlasting Happiness.

I don't see a downside.

Quote:
If God were all powerful, He would be able to accomplish wh**ever He wants to without causing the pain and suffering one sees in the world.


God made all things and looked it over, and saw everything was "Very good." Then, Man disobeyed the most basic of laws, committing the first sin by breaking that simplest of laws, and bringing upon the earth, a curse. That curse is why there is disease and foul, k*****g weather, still births and crippling accidents, and a plentitude of other reminders of the consequences of disobedience.

What most folks forget, is, those blessings are mostly rewards for keeping in covenant with God. We accept the blessings, then forget the consequences for disobedience, until one day we get reminded by a serious judgment call from God, who by that system, is reminding us we should not expect all the blessings and none of the curses when we break the covenant.

Of course, being typical Men, many of us simply curse God and shake our puny fists at Him, thinking we are defying Him. Little do we know, He is simply exercising patience with us because He knows we are almost blind in our ignorance and ego-trip of defiance.

Then, upon a day, we see something that makes us really begin to understand what He has been telling us all along, and we begin to seek the t***h of our destiny. Some wait too long; some don't wait long enough, and self-destruct; and some go on to perfection.

Quote:
Do we have a God who wishes to inflict pain and suffering on people when he does not have to in order to achieve His ends ?


Do we, as little children, have parents who "inflict a little pain and suffering" in order to get our attention so we won't burn our fingers on a hot stove betimes? Do they strive to teach us fundamentals of survival? Do we sometimes ignore even the basics of safety, for the momentary thrill of the chase, only to be reminded by the crash of the car into a tree, when simply accepting the warnings of Parents would have avoided a multiplicity of pain and suffering?

Same with God, who, as our Heavenly Parent, strives only for our good, even when we shake our fists at Him and deny Him, even tell lies about Him, to convince ourselves we don't need anybody. Yet we cry all day long when He allows us to "test the theory" of whether He exists or not, and whether He blesses us or not. Whether He loves us or not. Even denying the Son He sent to save us.

God could have made a bunch of creatures incapable of defying Him, but He instead, gave us free will, whereby we can choose to love Him, or choose to defy Him, or even choose to become His enemy. He wants us to be recipients of His love, and prepares us for the best of which we are capable, then helps us to even exceed that best capability by His strength. But He also allows us to go our own willful way, sinking ever deeper into depravity and disobedience, until we become so enamored of our own strength of sin, He allows us to become victims of our own stupidity.

Quote:
The usual Christian dodge to this is that "God's ways are incomprehensible to man." That is a non-answer, no matter how believers try to weasel out of it.


Agreed. While I agree "God's ways are past finding out," I do not agree that we cannot comprehend His messages He sends for our attention.

The real problem as I see it, is some Men do not want to be servants, but rather want to be perceived as "Pillars in the church" to be served by others. They will twist the words of God into incomprehensible mush and insist that they, and they alone, speak directly with God, and only They can interpret God's message for Men.

We have over ten thousand denominations and splinter groups as a direct result of Men letting other Men control their belief and doctrines when scripture plainly tells it otherwise.

You can tell when someone speaks God's message, and when someone speaks for His own glory. If I speak God's word to you, and it makes you judge your neighbor unjustly; and makes you feel badly about yourself, and makes you love God less, you know my words are self-serving.

But if what I say to you helps you to love your neighbor as you love yourself; and Helps you understand God better, and learn to love Him more; and Helps you be a better person because I have helped you understand the t***h of God, then you can rest assured, it comes from God, and He alone should receive the glory for that victory, because He has brought it about by sending the right person to help you understand, and not judge you in your failures, but lift you to a higher effort.

THAT is who MY God is.

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Jan 1, 2016 16:20:47   #
Rufus Loc: Deep South
 
Greg Brady wrote:
Not really, I asked him to Semite my EX-wife lasts week, no lightning bolts, no fire raining down from the sky, hell she didn't even turn into a pillar of salt.... what the hell good is he????


Guns are good. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Jan 1, 2016 16:25:52   #
Theo Loc: Within 1000 miles of Tampa, Florida
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Yes, one of the greatest expressions of foolishness in the Bible.


Not nearly as foolish as "There is no God." Or even worse, "O.K. God, Here I am, give it your best shot!"

I do not think I would trust my own strength, or even luck, against those possible consequences.

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Jan 1, 2016 17:37:02   #
susanblange Loc: USA
 
Rufus wrote:
Of course He is Richard. I do not always agree with God or understand His ways . I never understood animal sacrifices, because I love animals. He is the creator. We must surrender to Him. I believe He will eventually explain many things to us that we are not capable of understanding. Not that He has to. He is God. We are just His creation. he does not owe us anything. He has already given us life, food, water, clothing, housing, women, talents, sk**ls, jobs, money, hearts, souls and the list goes on. It is all about recognizing Him as God and trusting Him. Period. It is simple but in our evil we want to make it complex. It is not.
Of course He is Richard. I do not always agree wit... (show quote)


The purpose of an animal sacrifice is to eat the meat. The word sacrifice means "to make sacred". All life is sacred, even the lives of animals. The animal had to be slaughtered in a particular and ritualistic manner to avoid its suffering. The rabbi's were sustained in part by eating the offerings of the people. Both the person making the offering and the rabbi's were to eat it.

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Jan 1, 2016 17:41:07   #
Rufus Loc: Deep South
 
susanblange wrote:
The purpose of an animal sacrifice is to eat the meat. The word sacrifice means "to make sacred". All life is sacred, even the lives of animals. The animal had to be slaughtered in a particular and ritualistic manner to avoid its suffering. The rabbi's were sustained in part by eating the offerings of the people. Both the person making the offering and the rabbi's were to eat it.


No doubt. But I was fine just eating fruit and seed bearing plants and letting the animals eat grasses.

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Jan 1, 2016 17:41:15   #
PeterS
 
Theo wrote:
Nothing says "God loves you" like when i***ts deny God, and remain breathing.

It's hard for an imaginary spirit to do anything to someone who doesn't believe. You would be amazed at how many have said worse and are still drawing breaths...

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Jan 1, 2016 17:44:17   #
Theo Loc: Within 1000 miles of Tampa, Florida
 
PeterS wrote:
It's hard for an imaginary spirit to do anything to someone who doesn't believe. You would be amazed at how many have said worse and are still drawing breaths...


You have no idea of the depths of depravity I have witnessed from my Fellow Men, many of whom still draw breathe in defiance of God.

His mercy indeed endures forever.

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Jan 1, 2016 17:45:43   #
Rufus Loc: Deep South
 
PeterS wrote:
It's hard for an imaginary spirit to do anything to someone who doesn't believe. You would be amazed at how many have said worse and are still drawing breaths...


They must be k**led.

die anigav, die, die, die , die.
die anigav, die, die, die , die....

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Jan 1, 2016 18:08:10   #
Richard94611
 
While we're at it, let's go out and stone a few adulterers and get us some s***es.

Rufus wrote:
They must be k**led.

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