Richard94611 wrote:
Refus has stated that God is all good and that He is all powerful. If He is all powerful, then He can accomplish anything He wants in any way He wishes to. This leaves us with the interesting philosophical question of why there is pain and suffering in the world.
God made Man in His own image; only we are temporarily in flesh and blood. It is a training period. God made us Elohim, which means if we make it to heaven, we will be Gods.
Why would He jeopardize His own domain by allowing a bunch of self-centered, "me-first" stumbling, bumbling, cry-babies into Brotherhood with God, when a simple training period will eliminate all the problems that go with Humanity?
He gives us gifts so we will not be completely without hint or evidence, and He blesses us all with life and necessities for living. And He asks us to work just a tad for the rewards of everlasting Happiness.
I don't see a downside.
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If God were all powerful, He would be able to accomplish wh**ever He wants to without causing the pain and suffering one sees in the world.
God made all things and looked it over, and saw everything was "Very good." Then, Man disobeyed the most basic of laws, committing the first sin by breaking that simplest of laws, and bringing upon the earth, a curse. That curse is why there is disease and foul, k*****g weather, still births and crippling accidents, and a plentitude of other reminders of the consequences of disobedience.
What most folks forget, is, those blessings are mostly rewards for keeping in covenant with God. We accept the blessings, then forget the consequences for disobedience, until one day we get reminded by a serious judgment call from God, who by that system, is reminding us we should not expect all the blessings and none of the curses when we break the covenant.
Of course, being typical Men, many of us simply curse God and shake our puny fists at Him, thinking we are defying Him. Little do we know, He is simply exercising patience with us because He knows we are almost blind in our ignorance and ego-trip of defiance.
Then, upon a day, we see something that makes us really begin to understand what He has been telling us all along, and we begin to seek the t***h of our destiny. Some wait too long; some don't wait long enough, and self-destruct; and some go on to perfection.
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Do we have a God who wishes to inflict pain and suffering on people when he does not have to in order to achieve His ends ?
Do we, as little children, have parents who "inflict a little pain and suffering" in order to get our attention so we won't burn our fingers on a hot stove betimes? Do they strive to teach us fundamentals of survival? Do we sometimes ignore even the basics of safety, for the momentary thrill of the chase, only to be reminded by the crash of the car into a tree, when simply accepting the warnings of Parents would have avoided a multiplicity of pain and suffering?
Same with God, who, as our Heavenly Parent, strives only for our good, even when we shake our fists at Him and deny Him, even tell lies about Him, to convince ourselves we don't need anybody. Yet we cry all day long when He allows us to "test the theory" of whether He exists or not, and whether He blesses us or not. Whether He loves us or not. Even denying the Son He sent to save us.
God could have made a bunch of creatures incapable of defying Him, but He instead, gave us free will, whereby we can choose to love Him, or choose to defy Him, or even choose to become His enemy. He wants us to be recipients of His love, and prepares us for the best of which we are capable, then helps us to even exceed that best capability by His strength. But He also allows us to go our own willful way, sinking ever deeper into depravity and disobedience, until we become so enamored of our own strength of sin, He allows us to become victims of our own stupidity.
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The usual Christian dodge to this is that "God's ways are incomprehensible to man." That is a non-answer, no matter how believers try to weasel out of it.
Agreed. While I agree "God's ways are past finding out," I do not agree that we cannot comprehend His messages He sends for our attention.
The real problem as I see it, is some Men do not want to be servants, but rather want to be perceived as "Pillars in the church" to be served by others. They will twist the words of God into incomprehensible mush and insist that they, and they alone, speak directly with God, and only They can interpret God's message for Men.
We have over ten thousand denominations and splinter groups as a direct result of Men letting other Men control their belief and doctrines when scripture plainly tells it otherwise.
You can tell when someone speaks God's message, and when someone speaks for His own glory. If I speak God's word to you, and it makes you judge your neighbor unjustly; and makes you feel badly about yourself, and makes you love God less, you know my words are self-serving.
But if what I say to you helps you to love your neighbor as you love yourself; and Helps you understand God better, and learn to love Him more; and Helps you be a better person because I have helped you understand the t***h of God, then you can rest assured, it comes from God, and He alone should receive the glory for that victory, because He has brought it about by sending the right person to help you understand, and not judge you in your failures, but lift you to a higher effort.
THAT is who MY God is.