alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa

as a matter of fact I always knew where every dollar went

Lou Loc: Florida

doggone right you did ....and so does just about everyone else .

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

That hasn't been my experience, especially nowadays with the prevalence of direct deposit and paperless paystubs. Most people never even look at their paystub, just what's deposited in their checking account.

That, plus, 9 out 10 doctors agree. Looking at the withholding taxes on your paystub is worse for your blood pressure than 1/2 lb of salt. :)

Lou Loc: Florida

Oh my , if that's not the weakest rebuttal , I don't believe you can be that thick .
Dude , just face it , you got one foot in your mouth already and are about to put the other in .

LOL...what about W2 s at the end of the year ? WHERE IT STATES YOUR TOTAL PAID TAX , SS & MEDICARE DEDUCTIONS - no one looks at them either huh ? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

Okay, quick, without looking. How much did you pay from your last paycheck for Medicare taxes? Don't know, do ya?

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

YEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH.

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

I don't know about my present largest check since it has to be direct deposit if I want it. That is the way Social Security works and all the other retirement funds I collect on I do know because they tell me each month.

Lou Loc: Florida

No , I've been on Social Security for a year now . But when I was working [47years] I looked at my pay check and was aware of what I was paying in Income tax SS and Medicare . As did everyone I knew .
It is erroneous to think and then generalize that anyone working for a living would not be aware of the same .
Tax is a fact of life l and the notion mentioned that we should only be taxed for maintaining a military for our national Defense , is quite naïve if not purposefully ignorant . You drive on an Interstate Highway system with bridges and tunnels that has been paid for and maintained with tax , as well as Schools , Libraries , Coast Guard , Customs and all the regulatory Agencies in place to ensure a safe food supply etc.etc .
Indeed if one abhors the idea of tax then one should leave and go to a country where there is no tax , unfortunately there will be none of anything else there either .

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

You know I am self employed & do my own taxes so I see all the numbers. But with out going back & looking at my tax forms I could not tell you the numbers.

alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa

schools and roads are state functions libraries are city function roads are supposed to be paid for from the gasoline tax

Lou Loc: Florida

A tax is a tax is a tax Alex . Wherever there is a large infrastructure there will be tax . Business does not police itself , thus regulatory agencies are necessary . You simply can't have a country as large as the United States ,collect tax only for national defense , or else you would have commercial and economic chaos .
And the only form of revenue for government is tax .

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

First, congratulations on your retirement! I, too, retired about a year ago after working 42 years. Still have a few months before I'm eligible for SS.

It's easy to win a debate against a strawman...I'm a libertarian, we're the champions of the smallest govt possible, and even we don't say the only purpose of govt is the national defense (military). Interestingly, you forgot to mention the 2nd most important function of govt - a criminal justice system which includes law enforcement. You mentioned roads, and while I don't agree they're technically a function of govt, I have no problem with letting the govt perform that function and use tax dollars for them.

Then you mention other agencies including food inspectors. Is there a federal agency that ensures the electrical appliances you purchase don't catch fire and burn your house down? No. Why? Because industry developed their own regulatory system and funds Underwriters Labs. They test products to make sure they're safe. There's no need to involve govt. If govt food inspectors were doing such a great job then we wouldn't hear about cases of salmonella and food recalls all the time.

Education is a valid function of govt, but most people would agree that the current public education system is broken. Here's my suggestion to fix it:

Since education (K-12) benefits all of society I think the government has an obligation to provide it, but they have proven they are incapable of actually administering it. Therefore I suggest that the government give vouchers to parents for private schooling for each K-12 age child. This will allow private schools to open throughout the country and parents will be able to choose which schools to send their children to. Private schools that wish to purchase what are currently public school buildings should be allowed to do so at a fair-value price.

The government should also mandate a minimum curriculum for these schools. This minimum curriculum should pertain to sk**ls in reading, writing, math, history, civics and science only. Schools providing only the minimum curriculum should not be allowed to charge more than the government vouchers, but should be free to charge less if desired. If they charge less then the parents can keep half the difference between the tuition and the voucher amount. Schools providing more than the minimum curriculum can charge more than the vouchers and the parents can make up the difference if they choose to send their children there.

With regard to higher education, the government should not be involved in any way.

Yes, taxes are a necessary evil. But they should only be used for purposes that benefit the entire population. National Defense, a criminal justice system, an education system and a system of roads all meet that criteria. There are others as well, but those are a few of the biggest.

Charity is not a valid purpose of govt. It does not meet the criteria of benefiting all. In fact, for the govt to help some, it must harm others.

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

Exactly!

Lou Loc: Florida

Therein lie the reasons for compromise .There will always be differing opinions on what is and what is not neccessary in the way our tax dollars are spent .
This requires bi-partisanship and compromise .And the tax burden based on what is agreed , to be borne by all APPORTIONATELY ..
Tax breaks are in an of themselves SPENDING .AND DO NOT BENEFIT ALL BUT SOME , BUT ARE LEGISLATED BY SOME AND NOT ALL > VIS-VIS LOBBYING .
Tax works like INSURANCE as it applies to Government . National Flood Insurance benefits VICTIMS while distributing premiums based on risk experience .Thus premiums resemble determijed risks but with premiums affordable for all . An argument can be raised by someone living in say the State of Maine which rarely experiences flooding in regards to paying an averaged premium , where someone living in the States of the Mississippi Valley should be paying an inordinately high premium , which would defeat the veery purpose of Insurance to begin with . So it is with tax . Why should a Vegan pay tax which goes to FDA services affecting the safety of livestock in the US ? OR why should people who grow their own food ?
You see you can argue ad infinitum for reasons why different groups can claim exemption on tax . And we would have government unable to function effectively .
To determine what is and what is not , reasonable functions in different areas of distribution of tax revenues , is what we elect Representatives and Senators for .
We don't elect them to engage GRIDLOCK , UNCOMPROMISING DISAGRREEMENT ,AND TOTAL PARTISAN POLITICS .
These people we elsct , their purpose is to DO A JOB , that we delegate d to them , by any interpretation of the Constitution , especially it's PREAMBLE which clearly and unmistakably describes one of it's purposes TO PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE .There will always be naysayers , pro's and con's one very issue , but they can not be allowed to paralyze the functioning of government based on PARTISAN POLITICAL IDEOLOGY .

To misinterpret the Preamble is to misinterpret the Constitution itself . Partisanship , does exactly that .

VladimirPee

Compromise in itself is not such a good thing. We " c*********d" our way to 17 trillion in debt. I grease your district and you grease mine. That's how most of the PORK finds its way into bills. COMPROMISE.

But I do recall the good old days of compromise when President Bush pushed for and signed Ted Kennedy's NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND. And Paul Sarbanes Sarbanes Oxley bill. How many GOP Bills has Obama signed? ZERO.