Theona

Mr. Cedar, I would like to thank you for your post! Your book is fascinating and I would have been through the whole of it had I not side tracked to some of the reference material to read at length. I just finished the book on Stalin and Lenin which I never really learned enough about to comment on. I had only hearsay and the usual condemnations (or adorations) to go on before.
I came to this site because several friends said that there are some lively and intelligent discussions to be found. After going through the first set of exchanges, I was quite thankful to have found your post!
I have been mainly researching two topics of late:
What has gone on with our education system in last few decades?
And the catastrophic affects that prescription drugs and v*****es have had on general health and mental health. This of course also leads into the fervor on gun control which is a fascinating subject to explore as well.
I fear I may have posted my rather lengthy opinion of Patriotism in the wrong place. I think I should have put it as a new post – oh well, I guess I shall have to suffer the slings and arrows and possible paranoia of the lucky postee to whom it was attached.
If you are interested, there is an excellent book – and it is also a free download – called ‘The deliberate dumbing down of America’. It’s an amazing compilation of the history and influences of the education system. I’m only about half way through, but it is very well done and extremely well documented. > http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/ . Fascinating read!
Also, since you have grandchildren or have friends with children (all ages) you might want to look into a documentary called ‘Generation Rx’. I found it on Netflix (streaming), but I’m sure there are other places it can be found. Some of the things I have uncovered in my investigations of the big Pharmaceutical companies would make one’s skin crawl. This subject, of course, leads into standardized health care – and who will be in charge of our health? It also branches off into food additives, GMOs and the (actual) persecution of organic gardeners, farmers and health food establishments.
There is a good video that speaks out against ‘Big Pharma’ - Why Drs. Are more dangerous than guns. Doctors and drugs have never been on the top of my hit parade – ever, so it’s almost fun. This one you could just watch on your computer if you are so inclined.
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=0EDADA92DA486FA54A8367504DEE7244
Thank you for your post and thank you for restoring my hope in finding intelligent thought on blog / forums!! My Patriot ‘rant’ was a bit out of character for me, but it can be so very frustrating! I truly want to value every opinion – and I have found some profound t***hs in the wackiest of posts – but it is so tiresome reading the same old twaddle over and over and over. It’s like the proverbial broken record. Sorry, I’m doing it again.
I bid you a most pleasant evening.

Theona

Divide and conquer! It's one of the oldest axioms in history, and the most effective. ‘The People’ need to start by cleaning out their hearts, rinsing off their minds and sharpening their brains. The time for complacency is over! Patriots in every corner need to pull together, join hands and take a good, hard, honest look at all of the key issues and all of the possible solutions. Only then will they be able to get their first glimpse of what is really happening to them – or rather, what they have been allowing to happen to them. The time for ‘blaming’ is also over. ‘The People’ need to take responsibility for their rights, liberty, freedom and their thoughts. Those aspects of Patriotism are not freely given, they must be earned with blood, sweat, tears and dedication. Patriotism and true citizenship are not for the lazy, permanently baffled or faint of heart. E Pluribus Unum!

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

The problem is that the left and the right have radically different, opposing definitions of liberty and freedom.

To the right, freedom means the freedom to make your own decisions.
To the left, freedom means freedom from having to make decisions.

How do those get reconciled?

Cedarstrip Loc: Michigan

Very true. They really can't be reconciled. I just started a new topic on the "Core Value of Progressivism" which explains part of this. I have a more thorough discussion of it on my web site.
http://cedarstrip.wordpress.com/

hogorina Loc: USA

GOVERNMENT

It is impossible to know anything about one's conscious understanding and
reactions unless the following questioned is posed, ( Do you know who
you are ). Here lies the issue in trying to asses an opponents view. Out
side of this I gather that you are a decent person searching for t***h.
Most people spend their whole life times without ever learning who they
were during an earthly struggle. KINDLY-DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE?

Incidentally,
in the abstract no reasonable explanation can be discovered regarding
true rule by the few. From pharaoh of Egypt unto the many Kings over
Canaan and to all presidents of our United States absolutely reverses
Adams passing to all mankind free speech. We have thought control in
America; and even in the beginning of Genesis, ( Bible ), we find no
government! Something to think about. Christ recognized no formal
government. Like i said, no governments-organized brutality

The Progressive Patriot

As a liberal, I want to thank you for telling me what I want and think, I would not have know. Thank you so much! The t***h is I wholly reject that assessment. I’m a liberal and I’ve made decision for myself for all of my 65 years and I have a problem with anyone suggesting otherwise I think that to conservatives freedom means being able to do wh**ever you want , to whoever you want to do it to whenever you want. It means freedom for themselves and forever can buy it or coerce it from others. For liberals, it means freedom for all on an equal and fair basis and that in a predatory world , sometimes means that the government must intervene to ensure that the vulnerable are not overwhelmed by the powerful. No one is free when others are oppressed. If, to you “freedom means the freedom to make your own decisions” why are so many conservatives obsessed with making decisions for others about who they can marry and when they can terminate a pregnancy ?

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

I got a kick out of reading your words about what freedom is to conservatives. I guess I am not really a conservative since I see freedom as something that our Constitution provides for us and that it does not allow all that do to whoever, however and wh**ever you talk about

Our Constitution has no place in it that calls for what you say but it also doesn't allow for government to make many decisions for us that our present administration seems to think they should be allowed to do. Do you go along with them in their beliefs about what freedom is? I hope not but I don't think you will say no.

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

Wow. I just spent nearly an hour reading your paper at your website and found it to be enjoyable. I disagree with some of it but not very much. I spent most of my reading on Part 7 since that part of it happens to have been mostly my early adult years of life. I wonder how many others here know all of that without going to your sites or reading what you said.

Hey, that was written in a style and words that young adults can certainly understand. Those kids should really feel beholden to you if they read it. I am sure you did some real work getting it all done and I intend to keep going back there to get most, if not all, of it read. It is really a good trip back through those years and too much t***h in it.

I will disagree with only one small part of it. That would be that when Truman sent those first troops to Korea he did it without the approval of anybody, especially the UN. He said that he was sending them to defend the South Koreans and that the UN, after a couple of weeks of debate, would finally come along. Well now that is just how it went also. I know these things because I graduated that spring and was very ripe for the draft although at the beginning I was only 17 and didn't turn 18 till December.

At any rate Truman became my hero from those days on since he had declared the Truman Doctrine and he sent those troops without waiting for the UN to debate it all. Yes, at the headquarters of the UN they wore UN blue helmets but on the lines they wore good old American OD.

I will get back to the "book" tomorrow, I hope.

memBrain Loc: North Carolina (No longer in hiding.)

I get a kick out of all your definitions of freedom. Freedom is a gift from "nature's God" as our founding fathers would say. Along with freedom comes responsibility. If God grants freedom, then it is the responsibility of everyone to preserve those freedoms for others as well. It is that fundamental issue at stake concerning a******n. For God is also the bestower of Life. Only through hubris does any man attempt to define something such as life. As we know it, life at it's most basic level is bacteria and single celled organisims. therefore, a fertilize egg in the uterus is by all accounts alive. Therefore, destruction of the embryo through artificial means is tantamount to murder as a life is being destroyed. If you don't like it, take it up with God.

memBrain Loc: North Carolina (No longer in hiding.)

Hogo, are you a touring machine? If I could block you, I would.

The Progressive Patriot

You'll have to be more specific. Exactly what decisions are being made for us that you object to? Funny how no body want's to touch my comment about how conservatives talk about freedom but want to control our sexuality

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

Oh, Chardo, you were doing pretty well there with civility for a short while. Then this. Conservatives don't want to control anybody's sexuality.

I, personally, have nothing against gays and don't want to control what they do in their bedrooms any more than I want anybody controlling what I do. There is a difference, however, between average gay people and radical gay activists. I have a big problem with gay activists. They are doing all they can to subvert the 1st ammendment (h**e speech laws) and they are among the worst hypocrites I've ever seen. They constantly preach tolerance and are among the most intolerant people in the country. Remember several years ago the flap when Perez Hilton asked some beauty pageant contestant her thoughts on gay marriage and she answered "wrong"? Remember how tolerant Perez was? Remember the death threats she received from tolerant gay activists?

Personally I'm all for having civil unions where gay couples have the same legal rights as heterosexual married couples. Most gay couples are perfectly happy with that. It is only the radical gay activists who are demanding that the centuries-old definition of marriage be changed. Have you ever asked yourself or anybody else why that is? Maybe you should.

Also, speaking of waste in government, why are they wasting 1.5M to study why lesbians are fat? (seems as if they turned the question around the answer might be obvious :))
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/feds-spend-15-million-study-why-lesbians-are-fat
I didn't even know they are. This must present a real quandry for you progressive l*****ts, according to Michelle you're supposed to h**e fat people, but PC dictates you support lesbians. What to do?

Lastly, just to show the lengths to which the radical gay activists will go, I recently retired from a fairly large, very PC, corporation (about 15000 employees). They publish an online newspaper which gets emailed to all employees daily. A few years ago they had a story called heterosexism in which they suggested that all employees should refrain from talking about their families with co-workers, because a homosexual person might overhear and become depressed and unproductive!

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

Can you tell me how our government hasn't made its attempt to saddle us with socialized medicine? Maybe you can explain to me how they weren't making decisions for us concerning health insurance when they mandated that everybody who can pay for it do so, how employers have to pay it or get fined, and on and on about the rules and regulations concerning health care. That would also include the paying of the new 30 million people who the rest of us get to pay for.

A couple more things along that line would be the method they have tried to use to force religious groups to pay for their employees a******ns and birth control. Of course, I am not convinced that you see any of that as unconstitutional, as I do.

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

I really feel sorry for those employees who might become reproductive because others talked about their kids. It makes sense when you think about activists from the gay group, though.

The Progressive Patriot

You have the temerity to accuse me of departing from civility over this, then launch into a bigoted diatribe about radical gays!! When I say control, I’m not talking about what people do in their bedrooms, I’m talking about their lifestyle , their ability to enjoy the same rights as everyone else; to marry; to be eligible for all of the same rights and benefits. Don’t give be that civil union crap. What the hell do you know? You complain about money being spent on some study? Why don’t you complain about House Republicans who are spending taxpayers money to defend the Defense of Marriage Act! Republican’s don’t want to control anybody….then why was an amendment to ban same sex marriage and to a vow to overturn Roe v. Wade part of the Republican platform? And as far as gays being the intolerant ones…..that is over the top ridiculous. How many anti gay groups have been labeled h**e groups by the SPLC?? Several!! You have no idea how much you pissed me off. I hope that this is uncivil enough for you.