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Who is a True Patriot in America
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Feb 28, 2013 08:44:06   #
The Progressive Patriot
 
As we know, there now exists a mindset among political partisans that considers their adversaries to be unpatriotic. Therefore, I would like to explore the question of what patriotism is, what it is not, and who has the right to claim that mantle. Most will agree that any definition of patriotism would include a love and devotion to ones country, and by that definition, it should not be political at all. In theory, people with different values and philosophies, even vast differences can all be seen as loving their country, as being patriots. However, I think that we can also agree that if one political party or faction was harming the country , either deliberately or through a misguided agenda , that would be decidedly unpatriotic. Now we find ourselves in a political environment that has gone from constructive disagreement to one in which each side is convinced that the other is in fact, literarily destroying America . The reality is that there is in fact much going on today that can harm the nation to the point of destruction. I submit to you that the party that is unpatriotic is the one that :
• Engages in the systematic obstruction of the quest for positive change in our country in areas such as employment, reduction in poverty, education and science, while pretending that the only problems that we have as a nation are too much taxing and spending, while ignoring most everything else.

• Manufactures fiscal crisis’ and hold the country hostage to protect the wealth at the expense of the other 99% of the people and who’s intransigence caused the country’s credit rating to be downgraded.

• Derides social programs as socialism and deliberately and disingenuously confuses it with Marxism and Fascism, while pretending that anyone can get by in today’s America if only they would try harder, which amounts to turning our back on the most vulnerable members of society ,which weakens the nation as a moral beacon and a sustainable society.


• Spins news stories, or outright lies, for political gain and putting politics and ideology before the good of the country.

• Spreads conspiracy theories about such things as impending martial law and the staging of a tragic massacre , or stirs up fears about the UN as an excuse for blocking treaties that protect women, disabled people and the environment that should not even be political.


• Denies that the religious freedom, enshrined in the constitution that they claim to love, applies equally to people of all faiths, or no faith at all, which is in no way in keeping with the vision of the founders and undermines the underlying principals of our nation.


In addition, it is not patriotic :

• To seek to adopt an interpretation of the constitution that would result in such limited federal powers as to revert the role of government to the era of the Federalist Papers-creating a loose “federation” of states, while toying with secession. In that America, states would be free to flout the equal protection mandate of the constitution, the bill of rights, the voting rights act and the civil rights act-and some surely would.

• To Promote or at least do nothing to counter, sexism, racism, homophobia and xenophobia which makes us look like the ideologically and theocratically driven third world oligarchies that we should be rising above . And, advocating a foreign policy based on fear, domination, arrogance and jingoism does not make one a patriot either.

• To seek to regulate women,s bodies, and pass constitutional amendments restricting people’s right to marry who they wish, but not regulate the corporations that pollutes the air and water , avoid taxes and exploit workers


• To disrespect the president and first lady with absurd charges and derogatory words. Quite the contrary, they are dangerous, and subversive because all of these things weaken America economically and morally, undermine national security, and bring scorn and ridicule upon the country.

Let me close by saying that I am well aware of the fact that various dictionaries will also define a Patriot, in part, as “a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.” In other words “liberty vs. “tyranny”, words frequently heard in today’s political discourse. And, this has been used against me by small government zealots as proof that I, who believes in government that can and should work to better the lives and to protect all of its people can’t be a patriot. But what is liberty, and what is tyranny? Some appear to think of liberty as having license to exploit others without government oversight; the freedom to discriminate, to engage in hateful acts and speech, and to carry assault weapons. Some do not recognize that there are limits to freedom as well as responsibilities that go with it. Those who think that way are not even part of civilized society. Rather, they are in fact a threat to the liberty of others by virtue of their extreme interpretation of the word “liberty”, their own liberty that is . Those same people will cry tyranny at anything that the government does to rein in those individual liberties for the greater good, showing an colossal ignorance and lack of appreciation of the enormous freedoms that we do enjoy. And that my friend’s is not patriotic. Therefore, today I declare that progressives are the true patriots because of, and not in spite of, the fact that we have a vision of this country being truly great in all ways for all of our people. I’m a patriot because I want America to be respected in the world as a leader in science, diplomacy, education, environmental protection and the evolving standards of human decency. Patriotism is progress. Progress is patriotism.



__________________________________________________________________________________
We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what's in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense.
Barack Obama
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/topics/topic_patriotism.html#HJpv58fi2GICfQh6.99

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Mar 1, 2013 23:44:38   #
Voice of Reason
 
• Engages in the systematic obstruction of the quest for positive change in our country in areas such as employment, reduction in poverty, education and science, while pretending that the only problems that we have as a nation are too much taxing and spending, while ignoring most everything else.

Let's see, under Obama unemployment is up, poverty rates are up, the public education system is a national disgrace and about to become even worse and high-school and even college graduates can't tell the difference between science and junk science. Why do you hate Obama so much?

• Manufactures fiscal crisis’ and hold the country hostage to protect the wealth at the expense of the other 99% of the people and who’s intransigence caused the country’s credit rating to be downgraded.

President Obama initiated the idea of the sequester, then tried to switch spending cuts for more taxes, so the manufactured crisis' you're talking about are manufactured by Obama. Why do you hate Obama so much?

• Derides social programs as socialism and deliberately and disingenuously confuses it with Marxism and Fascism, while pretending that anyone can get by in today’s America if only they would try harder, which amounts to turning our back on the most vulnerable members of society ,which weakens the nation as a moral beacon and a sustainable society.

From the time the pilgrims arrived until the early 1900's there were no government-run social programs or 'safety-net'. During that time this country progressed from a backwater colony to the most powerful, most free nation on earth. Since the end of WWII liberal progressives have saddled the American taxpayers with ever greater social programs in their futile quest for utopia. During that time the US has transformed from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation in the history of the world. Also during that time all the problems that the social programs were purported to fix have been exacerbated.

• Spins news stories, or outright lies, for political gain and putting politics and ideology before the good of the country.

Do you mean Obama telling the American people that doctors are ripping healthy tonsils out of healthy children for profit? Or that they're cutting healthy limbs off healthy adults for profit? Or that if you like your current employer-provided healthcare you can keep it under Obamacare? You really hate Obama, don't you? You'd better watch out for drones!

• Spreads conspiracy theories about such things as impending martial law and the staging of a tragic massacre , or stirs up fears about the UN as an excuse for blocking treaties that protect women, disabled people and the environment that should not even be political.

This one is just too stupid to waste time commenting.

• Denies that the religious freedom, enshrined in the constitution that they claim to love, applies equally to people of all faiths, or no faith at all, which is in no way in keeping with the vision of the founders and undermines the underlying principals of our nation.

You mean Obama trying to force Catholic organizations to perform abortions? The drones are circling!

In addition, it is not patriotic :

• To seek to adopt an interpretation of the constitution that would result in such limited federal powers as to revert the role of government to the era of the Federalist Papers-creating a loose “federation” of states, while toying with secession. In that America, states would be free to flout the equal protection mandate of the constitution, the bill of rights, the voting rights act and the civil rights act-and some surely would.

That's probably true, Democrats have done it before.

• To Promote or at least do nothing to counter, sexism, racism, homophobia and xenophobia which makes us look like the ideologically and theocratically driven third world oligarchies that we should be rising above . And, advocating a foreign policy based on fear, domination, arrogance and jingoism does not make one a patriot either.

Another too stupid to bother with. Only an idiot thinks laws can change personal feelings.

• To seek to regulate women,s bodies, and pass constitutional amendments restricting people’s right to marry who they wish, but not regulate the corporations that pollutes the air and water , avoid taxes and exploit workers

To seek to regulate women,s (sic) bodies, or to attempt to protect the most innocent and helpless, it's all in the semantics.

I didn't know DOMA was a constitutional ammendment, when did that get ratified?

I assume the corporation you're talking about is GE, with Obama's buddy Jeffrey Immelt as CEO and a member of Obama's economic advisory board, and the recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of windmill contracts, mandated by Obama's EPA? You're right, GE pays no taxes.

• To disrespect the president and first lady with absurd charges and derogatory words. Quite the contrary, they are dangerous, and subversive because all of these things weaken America economically and morally, undermine national security, and bring scorn and ridicule upon the country.

Unless, of course, the president happens to be a Republican like GWB, right?

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Mar 2, 2013 08:25:28   #
The Progressive Patriot
 
"Do you mean Obama telling the American people that doctors are ripping healthy tonsils out of healthy children for profit? Or that they're cutting healthy limbs off healthy adults for profit? " WTF are you talking about. ? Nothing that your saying makes any sense to me . This is just the stupidest thing that you wrote. And I'm well aware that DOMA is not a constitutional amendment, but an amendment to ban same sex marriage was in the Republican platform.I'm out of here.

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Mar 2, 2013 08:27:48   #
The Progressive Patriot
 
"From the time the pilgrims arrived until the early 1900's there were no government-run social programs or 'safety-net'. During that time this country progressed from a backwater colony to the most powerful, most free nation on earth. Since the end of WWII liberal progressives have saddled the American taxpayers with ever greater social programs in their futile quest for utopia. During that time the US has transformed from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation in the history of the world. Also during that time all the problems that the social programs were purported to fix have been exacerbated".

_________________________________________________________

Let me remind conservatives that one big reason that they lost the election is because of their insistence on maligning those who are to some degree dependent on government services, while at the same time calling for cuts to those services. They cling to the rhetoric of “makers” and the “takers” the latter of course being anyone who ever needed some help getting by. They call people who are just trying to survive in a cruel economic environment leaches and parasites. They believe, or pretend to believe that anyone can go out and get job- a job that pays a living wage anytime they wish if only they were not so lazy and content to be on the dole. They continue to complain that 47% of people pay no federal income tax but fail to acknowledge that the majority are working but too poor to have an income tax liability, in part due to the earned income tax credit and child care credit supported by Republicans. They also fail to acknowledge that these same people pay other federal taxes, as well as state and local taxes which are highly regressive.
This harsh swim or sink attitude emanates from the same people who expound a steadfast belief in lais-sez faire capitalism, and minimum regulations and safeguards against corporate excesses. They are often anti union and opposed to raising the minimum wage. What they fail to understand or acknowledge is that poverty, unemployment, and underemployment are built into the capitalist system. Even in a regulated economy, the need for labor expands and contracts as the result of a multitude of factors at home and around the world. When the economy shrinks, excess workers are sidelined. At the same time, the workforce expands and contracts, also as the result of factors that we can’t control. There is also the issue of matching skills to the available jobs geographically. Rarely is there a perfect match between those seeking jobs and the needs of business , and there is usually excess labor.
In addition they fail to grasp the fact that not only does a free market necessitate a government assistance on occasion, but the social safety nets are good for capitalism. When the economy shrinks as it always will from time to time, programs are needed to maintain societal stability and a workforce that will be to be ready to work when the system needs there services again-to work for and enrich the capitalists. In their book “Regulating the Poor: The Function of Public Welfare”, Francis Fox Piven and Richard A. Cloward make this argument, and go on to say that relief efforts not only maintain social order, but also reinforce the work ethic by ensuring that people are only given enough to subsist without being to comfortable.
I will submit to you that the only way to eliminate the much maligned dependency is to regulate business to the extent where they must put people before profits and provide a good job for all regardless of the bottom line. However that would be SOCIALISM and we can’t have that. Or, we could re-establish alms houses. What we cannot do is to have it both ways. We must either accept tighter controls on business practices to prevent the exploitation of workers in the name of profit, or stop persecuting the less fortunate victims of the unsavory side effects of free enterprise .

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Mar 2, 2013 11:58:18   #
Voice of Reason
 
TheChardo wrote:
"Do you mean Obama telling the American people that doctors are ripping healthy tonsils out of healthy children for profit? Or that they're cutting healthy limbs off healthy adults for profit? " WTF are you talking about. ? Nothing that your saying makes any sense to me . This is just the stupidest thing that you wrote. And I'm well aware that DOMA is not a constitutional amendment, but an amendment to ban same sex marriage was in the Republican platform.I'm out of here.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/22/obama_doctors_taking_tonsils_out_for_money_instead_of_diagnosing_it_as_allergies.html

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Mar 2, 2013 12:09:17   #
Voice of Reason
 
TheChardo wrote:
"... In their book “Regulating the Poor: The Function of Public Welfare”, Francis Fox Piven and Richard A. Cloward...


Cloward and Piven? CLOWARD AND PIVEN??!!! That explains a lot about you.

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Mar 2, 2013 13:54:31   #
The Progressive Patriot
 
That is unconscionable to put this up there out of context! Disgusting! He is warning that insurance companies are making decisions that doctors should be free to make. Shame on you. He’s telling it like it is. Of course doctors have to be concerned about the fee schedule. It’s a business. Typical of you people though.

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Mar 2, 2013 14:22:37   #
Voice of Reason
 
TheChardo wrote:
That is unconscionable to put this up there out of context! Disgusting! He is warning that insurance companies are making decisions that doctors should be free to make. Shame on you. He’s telling it like it is. Of course doctors have to be concerned about the fee schedule. It’s a business. Typical of you people though.


Unconscionable? Disgusting?

Posting a link to a speech Obama gave saying what I said he said after you claimed he didn't is unconscionable and disgusting? Interesting.

Please explain why an insurance company would want to pay to remove healthy tonsils.

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Mar 2, 2013 15:24:22   #
The Progressive Patriot
 
Perhaps I was unclear. Insurance companies don't make the actual decision but influence the doctor to perform the more invasive procedure because it pays more and approve it if the doctor recommends it. Obama was decrying the system which needs fixing, not trying to scar anyone, yet that's how it was presented.

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Mar 2, 2013 17:19:43   #
Voice of Reason
 
Okay, Chardo, let's recap:

Me: Obama said ....

You: That's idiotic, Obama would never say such a thing.

Me: I provide a link proving he did.

You: Providing that link is unconcionable and disgusting. What Obama meant was insurance companies are making healthcare decisions, Obama wants to change that so doctors make the decisions.

Me: Why would an insurance company want to pay for an unnecessary procedure?

You: Insurance companies don't make the decisions, doctors do.

So,

1. Now that you know Obama really did make a statement which you correctly described as "idiotic" you agree with it.

2. You and Obama want to change from a system in which doctors make healthcare decisions to a system in which doctors make healthcare decisions.

Wow!

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Mar 2, 2013 17:56:45   #
Kentoidi8
 
I have to admit you are good at double-talk Chardo and will confuse a lot of people but your lengthy rant is just that, a rant. Don't bother to call me any more names. Your attempt to define patriotism is pathetic progressive blather. You sound like you want to start a Federal Commune in which at some point in time there will be no one to help the helpless. We are headed for more of a Jonestown with Obama in control. I guess you qualify for one of the guards.

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Mar 3, 2013 03:45:55   #
memBrain
 
TheChardo wrote:
As we know, there now exists a mindset among political partisans that considers their adversaries to be unpatriotic. Therefore, I would like to explore the question of what patriotism is, what it is not, and who has the right to claim that mantle. Most will agree that any definition of patriotism would include a love and devotion to ones country, and by that definition, it should not be political at all. In theory, people with different values and philosophies, even vast differences can all be seen as loving their country, as being patriots.
As we know, there now exists a mindset among polit... (show quote)


What a terrible topic! By its tri-fold nature, how can this topic possibly do anything but create controversy? It certainly won't establish a definition of what it means to be patriotic.

Fine, I shall attempt to do so.

You rightly point out that a patriotic person has love and devotion to ones country. That is just a starting point. In theory, that should include every man woman and child who is a law-abiding citizen.

True Patriotism goes well beyond that. A true Patriot puts the welfare of the state (in our system, that means we the people) above their personal needs. They come when called to serve, not kicking and screaming, but willingly if not eagerly. I think it is this one selfless trait that establishes true patriotism.

As pretty much all politicians self elect to run for office, I'm disinclined to include them as patriots. That is especially true if they profit even a little bit through their office. If they were truly patriots, then they would have no need for pay. To that end, they deserve adequate resources so that they can see to their task. However, when they leave office, they take their title with them as an honorific, but nothing else. Their goal would be to only serve the common interests of We the People, not special interests. The masses should not hold sway over the minority, nor should the minority hold sway over the masses. It should be true equal representation.

A few examples of common and special interests: National defense is a common interest. Welfare is a special interest. Welfare is not a common interest because not everyone needs welfare. Civil Unions are a common interest. While I do not agree with the non-heterosexual lifestyle, I acknowledge the right of others to choose it. While it does not extend to a redefinition of marriage, it does extend to the same protections under the law for civil unions. Gun control is not a common interest. It does not address the problem which is criminal behavior that does not extend to all persons. A person has the right to work where they want without undue interference. Similarly, a business has the right to hire and fire people as they see fit, so long is it is based on performance and qualifications, not demographics. I can go on, but I shan't.

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Mar 3, 2013 04:08:12   #
memBrain
 
TheChardo wrote:
"Do you mean Obama telling the American people that doctors are ripping healthy tonsils out of healthy children for profit? Or that they're cutting healthy limbs off healthy adults for profit? " WTF are you talking about. ? Nothing that your saying makes any sense to me .


Then you clearly haven't been paying any attention over the last 5 years. Obama most definitely made those assertions during his campaign. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhNeGYYPgIE

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Mar 3, 2013 04:10:27   #
memBrain
 
TheChardo wrote:
That is unconscionable to put this up there out of context! Disgusting! He is warning that insurance companies are making decisions that doctors should be free to make. Shame on you. He’s telling it like it is. Of course doctors have to be concerned about the fee schedule. It’s a business. Typical of you people though.


No, That really wasn't what he said. That may be what you wished he said, but it's not.

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Mar 3, 2013 14:22:04   #
Cedarstrip
 
While it is obvious that you have spent a lot of time organizing your thoughts on this subject, it is also apparent that your understanding of both Democrats and Republicans is based more on Democratic campaign rhetoric than a comprehensive understanding of either Progressive or Conservative philosophy.

Not long ago I spent several months studying both philosophies. I posted a paper on the subject, "Understanding America's Political Divide", which might be of interest to you.
http://cedarstrip.wordpress.com/

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