Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Exactly, Marty!

God recorded in His holy Word everything we need to know about His purpose and plans for the Jewish people and for Israel, and to create a different narrative smacks of rejection of His plan and, by claiming to be the "true Jews" reeks of arrogant self-pride.

It is another twist on the ancient "Replacement Theology" Jesus so despised and denounced in Revelation 2:9, and Revelation 3:9... "those who claim to be Jews, but are not"...

Claiming to be the new Israel of God and misapplying it to the United States and making the unprovable claim that the settlers of England, and then the United States are the blood descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in defiance of written, and as of yet unfulfilled Bible prophecy regarding the land of Israel, is to call God a liar.

sabath

Genesis 28:18 tells about the "Jacobs pillar stone" that rests today in Westminster Abbey in London,and the coronation chair is built around it! Luke 1:32, It is the original throne of David, on which many Kings of Scotland and England God said, ( I paraphrase ) Be hold- I have told you all things. here a little- there a little When he is talking about Judah,that is a different prophecy then when he is talking about Israel. that is the KEY to understanding the bible. The 2 nations will remain separated until Jesus comes back. The Israelites in the northwest think they are Gentiles, Just read the Holy Bible.

sabath

You still don't get it . Try to figure out which nation God is talking about, before you start accusing !!!

Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia

Here’s your knowledge!
Psalm 94:11The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

sabath:

The Lia Fail (Stone of Destiny) is an Irish myth. According to the legend it was supposed to “roar” if a true king touched it. David Williams, in an article on British-Israelism, noted that “Professor A.C. Ramsey of the Geology Department of London University inspected the “coronation” stone and identified it as red sandstone, of Scottish origin.

“The nearest red sandstone to Bethel, where Jacob found his stone is in Petra, Jordan, nearly one hundred miles to the south; all the stone within the proximity of Bethel where Jacob slept is white limestone.”

In 1996, British Prime Minister John Major said, “The Stone of Destiny holds a special place in the hearts of the Scots. I believe that on this, the 700th anniversary of its removal from Scotland, it’s appropriate to return it to its historic homeland.” The Scottish stone with which you are so enamored has not been in London since 1996. It's back home in Scotland - from where it originated.

The Bible says nothing about red sandstone from Scotland.

"The British Israelism (BI) teaching started penetrating the United States when the Ku Klux Klan adopted it as one of its prime ‘biblical’ doctrines in an attempt to convince the public that the KKK (Ku Klux Klan) was actually doing God’s work. As BI gathered popularity in the Protestant arena starting in the 1930s, its understanding was refashioned several times over. Most recently, it is popularly known as the Identity Movement."
(Info Taken from Exit Support Network’s OIU 4, pt. 3)
https://exitsupportnetwork.com/british-israelism-true-or-false/

The key verses used by BI proponents are identical to the ones Herbert Armstrong used – and distorted. Their premise is that the ten tribes of Israel were “lost” and today are found in the Anglo-Saxons... (Read ESN article: Where Are the Ten Tribes of Israel Located?) The theory fosters racial and national pride. No matter who we are, if we are in Christ Jesus, our future is not linked to a particular land or race, but to an incorruptible inheritance.
(I Peter 1:4) The Davidic Covenant was fulfilled in Jesus, the Son of God, and the Word of God is clear that we are to seek Him.

Being conned into believing that the United States and Britain were modern Israel apparently prompted many to become heavily involved in the Worldwide Church of God, or one of its offshoots or splinter groups. It can become a part of one’s self-worth (thinking we are special, chosen, the elite, etc.). Learning the truth about these things can bring one back down to earth, but for every Christian, rejoicing should come from understanding our special position in Christ, not in jealousy or denial of God's eternal love for the Jewish people and for Israel.

Herbert Armstrong emphatically believed in the superiority of the white race. He makes this clear early in his teachings that Eve had given birth to three distinctive races: White, Black and Asian. The white race was the chosen one, from whom he traced his bogus lineage. He believed he was a descendant of the Queen of England, and insisted his lineage went all the way back to David, which went all the way back to Seth. He never mentions that the Israelites/Jews were Semites to begin with! But he did make those he fooled believe that all the white races around the world (England, Scotland/Ireland, Switzerland, France, Scandinavia, etc.) were nothing more than the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. His followers never questioned it. They figured if the great church historian, Herman Hoeh, said it was true, then they had to believe that God revealed all these “facts” to him! That is a cult!

But there was a big loophole in his concocted teachings: The belief that Germany was ancient Assyria. HWA taught that these modern-day “Assyrians” would rise up again (just like they did in WWII) and punish the U.S. and the other modern Lost Ten Tribes. This was merely a “scare tactic” to get members to conform and not question. To question meant the loss of their ticket to the Place of Safety. HWA needed the “Assyrians” (imagined threat) as a tool to keep his followers frightened. He didn’t care if the Assyrians were white, black or blue! He would always say, “If you repeat a lie long enough, people will begin to believe it as truth.”

So yes, Herbert W Armstrong could easily hold teachings that didn’t support one another, or make any sense. He just had to believe it [and teach it] with great authority–never mind the details. Anyone who saw the loopholes were never allowed into the Worldwide Church of God.

Critics of H. W. Armstrong’s view need to understand that it’s not ESN who holds incorrect views. We are only reporting what was taught to us as “fact”; if anyone sees contradictions, then it should come as no surprise. All false teachers hold to conflicting doctrines, many of which cancel each other out! But these contradictions are never pointed out to members, and anyone who questions too closely, is quickly “put out” before other members are informed of the errors! (Members can easily recall his “one bad apple spoils the whole bunch” spiel).

Are “Israel” and “Jew” Two Separate Nations?

Armstrong taught that “Israel” and “Jew” were two separate nations. “Jew” always meant “The House of Judah,” and “Israel” meant “the lost ten tribes.” II Kings 17:18-23 is a favorite passage of British-Israelism devotees, so let’s consider it.

“So the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. Also Judah keep not the commandments of the Lord their God, but walked in the statutes of Israel which they made.

And the Lord rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.

For he tore Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king: and Jeroboam drove Israel from following the Lord, and made them sin a great sin..

For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam, which he did; they departed not from them; until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.”

Notice the last phrase of this Scripture. Israel went as far as Assyria until this day! They temporarily relocated, but not far away, and certainly not across oceans! Certainly not scattered far afield!

The Rebuilding Of Jerusalem in Nehemiah’s Day

According to the British-Israelism theory, only Jews should have been participating in rebuilding Jerusalem since the house of Israel was “long gone.” Yet Ezra uses the words “all Israel” several times in the account. (Ezra 2:70; 6:17; 8:25,35; 10:5; Nehemiah 7:73; 12:47). Evidently the terms “Jew” and “Israel” were used interchangeably, thus spoiling the unsupported theory of British-Israelism.

The Ten Tribes in Christ’s Day

If the ten tribes were gone by Christ’s day, how does the British Israelism theory explain that Anna the Prophetess was of the tribe of Asher? (Luke 2:36). Paul mentioned all twelve tribes. (Acts 26:6,7). James mentioned all twelve tribes. (James 1:1).

The book of Revelation tells of 12,000 people from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4-8). All Israel shall be saved, eventually. (Romans 11:26).

If you question that the list in Revelation is a literal one, as are all the other lists in the Bible, although they differ from one another for various reasons, you question God's honesty, truthfulness and His ability to preserve and perform what He has written in His holy Word. The Revelation list is not “figurative” or “spiritual,” it does not allow for interpretation that allows it to apply to another nation, but applies only to literal Israel."

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

I do not accuse. The truth is the truth.

What you have bought into is neither of God, nor is it taught in His holy Word.

Jeremiah 31:36:
"Only if this fixed order departed from My presence, declares the LORD, would Israel’s descendants ever cease to be a nation before Me."
37 This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above could be measured and the foundations of the earth below searched out would I reject all of Israel’s descendants because of all they have done,” declares the LORD.
38 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, “when this city [Jerusalem] will be rebuilt for Me, from the tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39 The measuring line will once again stretch out straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn toward Goah.
40 The whole valley including the graveyard and ash dump in the valley, and all the fields as far as the Kidron Valley, to the corner of the Horse Gate to the east, will be holy to the LORD. It will never again be uprooted or demolished."

Sew_What

so are you

sabath

God separated the Jews from the other 10 tribes,not me! read about the scepter & the birthright! only the people of Judah were called Jews. After the Jews were taken captive, another tribe came in to Jerusalem, that's who Jesus was talking about. You say i'm calling God a liar, and YOU don't listen to the word of God. not all Israelites are Jews!

Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia

Are you a Mormon?

sabath

I am not . I follow the Church of God, the king James vir. written by God before he became Jesus.

Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia

What chapter and verse talks about the scepter and birthright?

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Three thousand years ago (thirty centuries), - one thousand years Before Christ, the psalmist King David petitioned God: "Make me to know your ways, O Lord; teach me your paths. Lead me in your truth and teach me" (Psalm 25:4-5).

The Word of God was entirely finished ca 96 A.D., when the Apostle John completed recording the Revelation of Jesus to the Apostle John, the last book in the New Testament.

The King James Bible was translated as a new English version in 1611 A.D., more than 1,600 years after Jesus had been born to the Jewish maiden Mary, ca 4 B.C..

God taught David as He had requested of Him, and He will just as surely answer that same prayer for His present-day 21st century Christian servants.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

William Tyndale published the first printed edition of the New Testament in English in the year 1525.

Previous English Bibles to the King James, after the Tyndale, was the Matthews Bible, the Coverdale Bible, The Great Bible, the Geneva Bible, and the Bishops Bible.

These previous six English Bibles are part of the form and substance that provided the English words of The King James Authorized Version.

The King James translators started their construction with The Bishops Bible as a base and incorporated other biblical building material.

But they didn’t limit themselves to these. They also used Greek and Hebrew editions as well as foreign language versions:

Many foreign language Bibles and Testaments were examined.

It was a translators intention not only to improve presentation of God’s words in English but also to improve the presentation of God’s words that had previously appeared in other Reformation era Bibles.

They had a multitude of sources from which to draw.

Here’s what they said:

. . .we are so far off from condemning any of their labours that travelled before us in this kind, EITHER IN THIS LAND OR BEYOND THE SEA, either in King Henry's time, or King Edward's, (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation, in his time) or Queen Elizabeth's of ever renowned memory, that WE ACKNOWLEDGE THEM TO HAVE BEEN RAISED UP OF GOD FOR THE BUILDING AND FURNISHING OF HIS CHURCH, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posterity in everlasting remembrance.

. . . we do not deny, nay, we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English set forth by men of our profession. . . containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God: as the King's speech which he uttered in Parliament, being translated into French, Dutch, Italian, and Latin, is still the King's speech, though it be not interpreted by every translator with the like grace, nor peradventure so fitly for phrase, nor so expressly for sense, every where. . . .

"Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfected at the same time. . . so, if WE BUILDING UPON THEIR FOUNDATION THAT WENT BEFORE US, AND BEING HOLPEN BY THEIR LABOURS, do endeavour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade ourselves, if they were alive, would thank us. . . .

"Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning that we should need to make a new translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one; (for then the imputation of Sixtus had been true in some sort, that our people had been fed with gall of dragons instead of wine, with whey instead of milk;) but TO MAKE A GOOD ONE BETTER, OR OUT OF MANY GOOD ONES ONE PRINCIPAL GOOD ONE, NOT JUSTLY TO BE EXCEPTED AGAINST; THAT HATH BEEN OUR ENDEAVOUR, THAT OUR MARK."

What About The Printed English Bibles Before 1611?

The King James Bible itself is a revision of the Bishops Bible. Each translator was provided with a copy of the 1604 Bishops.

The testimony of history shows that the compilation of Scripture in the various languages of the world is a process and not a one-time event. In other words, the Lord didn’t present his final version in any particular language on the first pass.

The meaning of words changes with time, as in any culture new words appear, and old words discarted. The Greek in which the New Testament was written in the 1st century was called "koine" Greek, the word koine meant vulgar, as it was the common Greek used by the common, everyday citizens, rather than a more formal, scholarly Greek used only by highly trained Academics.

This is because the Word of God is written for all men, not some elitist, highly educated class. No matter how imperfect man's translations and publications of God's perfect word might be, the Holy Spirit illuminates its meaning to our minds, just as Jesus promised in the 16th chapter of John:

John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

The first New Testament translated from a 1st century Greek text into English was produced in 1525. If you could get a Tyndale New Testament you would have the New Testament Scripture as God provided it at that time.

Coverdale’s complete first edition of the Bible in English was published in 1535. You could have “the Scripture” as God provided it at that time in the form of the Coverdale Bible and Tyndale’s New Testament.

In 1537 you could add Matthews Bible to the list. Likewise, the Great Bible in 1539 and forward.

In 1560, you could get “the Scripture” that God provided in the English language in the Geneva Bible, developed in Switzerland by John Calvin and his fellow pastors.

God first presented the King James Version of his word in English in 1611, printed by Robert Barker in London. Two issues were published that year, the printing being done possibly in two different shops to meet the expected large demand. The first two printings were large folio Bibles for use in churches, but smaller editions were soon produced for personal use, starting in 1612.

With the proliferation of printings, early printer errors crept into each edition. For instance, in one printing, the word "not" was left out of the seventh commandment, in what eventually came to be called the "Wicked Bible," for it said "Thou shalt commit adultery." As well, if some printed sheets were left over from one printing, they were incorporated into the next printing. Almost no two still existing "original 1611" King James Bibles are exactly the same.

Eventually there was a need to correct and revise the King James Version because of printer's errors over the years and the changes in spelling and word usage. Corrected editions were published by the Cambridge University Press, the first being in 1629, followed by another in 1638. Several of the revisers were part of the original group of translators of the King James Version. Imperfectly printed copies continued to appear, some printed on the European continent in Holland.

There were almost 1000 editions printed from 1611 to 1769, all with minor corrections. In 1762, the most significant corrections were completed in an edition overseen by Dr. Thomas Paris of Trinity College in Cambridge. The work of Dr. Paris was then refined by Benjamin Blayney in 1769; this edition became the standard King James Bible in use until the middle of the 19th century.

None of this in any way, hindered the Holy Spirit in using God's Holy Word to convict men of their sinful condition, of their need to receive Christ, and for personal repentance.

Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia

Wow, I think it’s better now to live with a lot of bibles out there, than during any time in the past. Like Jesus said, the HS will teach us. In China, Christians have only one page or part of one page, and it’s enough!

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

I wholeheartedly agree, Marty!

Because both the Greek and the Hebrew are wordier languages, it's almost impossible to get the full meaning with a one word to one word translation into English.

I often check the Amplified Bible... (from the New American Standard), but with the shaded meanings of the original languages more plumply applied.