DotsMan

First let me apologize for not noting the source of the article referenced herein. I didn't make a note of it and haven't been able find it this morning.

I recently read a news article telling about increasingly violent anti Jewish demonstrations by Muslims in Europe and the government response.
The government response was that if the violence continues to grow the Jewish people will have to leave. I was rather agitated at this until I sat down to my daily Bible reading the next day.
Why would my Bible reading relieve my agitation?

Since the sixth century BC the Jewish people, to various degrees, have been scattered throughout the world with complete dispersion in 70 AD. However, God had promised them that this would be their home forever.
Now God is gathering His people, his flock, together in the land that he promised them.

My Bible reading that day included:

Ezekiel 34:11-16 King James Version (KJV)

11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain

Copied from: https://www.biblegateway.com/

The "fat and strong" would be those who have persecuted the Jewish people for all these centuries.

Lesson to all: Not matter what you believe, how much you ridicule, how much you condemn believers, how much you try to disprove His word, or any thing else you try to fight against Him, in the end of it all, GOD WILL WIN.

If you read the book of Ezekiel, you become very familiar with statements like,"so they will know I am the LORD".

Have a nice forever.

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

...so his flock, are the Jews-not Christians, correct.

skott Loc: Bama

Us Christians read the new testament.

DotsMan

In this scripture, God's "flock" is the Jewish people as a nation.
The "Christian" flock is all those, both Jew and Gentile who are followers of Jesus.

The significance of this gathering of God's Jewish flock back to Israel is that it is an indication that the return of Jesus to gather His "Christian flock" is getting close. Please don't ask me how close because neither I nor anyone else knows the answer to that question.

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

I don't agree, God's Flock most definitely doesn't even imply Christians. You are full of nonsense. The word Christian doesn't even occur in the old testament.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I have often wonder about this, how can anyone understand Jesus without understanding his past, and his past is that of a Israelite a descendent from the house of David. How can you put in perspective his teaching without understanding what came before him.

Think about this for just one minute. Not that anyone in the Bible is a joke or a story, but I am using this as an example only. You walk up to a group of people who are listening to a story. You hear only the end part, how do you know how to respond? There are basically two kinds of stories; the telling of a happening or connected series of happenings, whether true or fictitious; account; narration and a narrative, the broadest sense is: anything told or recounted; more narrowly, something told or recounted in the form of a story; account; tale. Which was being used by this group? You do not know unless you ask. Right? Same hold for the Bible, all of the Bible. Unless you read and relate the history of Jesus and his people then you can not truly understand his comments, his commandments, or even his reasons for acting or discussing events.

From the Christian view, the bible is not complete without both parts. The Old and New Testament make up the inspired word of God. The Old Testament with out the New Testament is an incomplete document because it does not have fulfilled promise. The New Testament is incomplete without the Old Testament because without it the New Testament would only inspire people to question why. The New Testament was never meant to replace the Old Testament. It is meant to complement the Old Testament to present a complete story.

From a scholar's view, the history of the Jews did not stop with the last book of the old testament or the Torah. It moved forward, many events found in the new testament are the foundations of anthropology, sociology, psychology, and yes even archeology. The battles fought and written about in Greek literature, in Latin, and t***slated into English; the migration of people, the government..... all are part of the history of nations.

I do not want to offend you, but you could broaden your view of the world if you broadened your reading material.

skott Loc: Bama

Jesus came from the old laws, and changed many of them. He even says that as far as the commandments go, if you love God, and you love each other as you love yourself, you have followed the commandments. He says that a gentle can get to God, and that we do not have to follow the old laws. That is hugely different than the old testament.
Whenever I here a person who claims to be a Christian say , "an eye for an eye..." I know he is not a Christian. He might be Jewish. But if he can't follow the teachings of Christ, he isn't Christian.

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

I agree. And Jesus effectively "deletes" the old testament. On the other hand, to Ginny's point, one cannot say that Jesus wasn't a Jew, ironically he isn't a Christian either and never could be....I feel like I'm running in circles.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Okay, I understand your point on this, but how does this relate to my comment?

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Sorry but you are wrong, as far back as 200 BCE, there were pagans that called themselves "Christians." Look it up. Now then the term Christian as used by the followers of Christ have a beginning in the Book of Acts. Look it up.

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

Is there any evidence in the Old Testament: that anyone called themselves Christians? No there isn't, and that's what I said. I didn't say it was never used, I just said that there isn't any mention of it in the old testament.

We aren't debating history, we are discussing Ezekiel and who the book is addressing. It isn't meant for Christians and there is no evidence to support that.

Since you like analogies: just because you hear (or read) a conversation, doesn't mean it was meant for you.

The message is for the Jewish people, why would Ezekiel be writing a message to Christians? Ezekiel was written, he started in 592 BCE? Nearly 300 years before Christian as you mentioned above . Messianic Jews are Jewish, but they weren't is existence before Christ. I'm not willing to accept that there Christians before Christ, even in name.

Also, I'm sure that there are a lot of pagans that would prefer not being called Christians.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Deleted at the implication in your last comment.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Sorry, I did not know that this is your private conversation("just because you hear (or read) a conversation, doesn't mean it was meant for you."). I will butt out, I had no intent to intrude.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Without study of the Tanakh (Old Testament) with it's detailed prophecies of the coming Anointed One, the Messiah,
there would be no way to check off God's Messianic prophecies
as they were fulfilled in Jesus Christ in the B'rit Hadasha - New Testament.

Christians, as well as all others seeking spiritual t***h, are told in
the New Testament to look to the Prophecies recorded in the Old Testament.

"But these have been written that you may believe that Jesus
is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing you may have life in His name” ( John 20:31)

The Tanakh - Old Testament Prophecies that the Life Of Jesus historically, literally fulfilled,
were, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, recorded in the B'rit Hadasha - New Testament.

The documentation to which the apostles appealed in order to establish both the Deity of Jesus Christ
and the proof that He was indeed the Meshiach - the Messiah of Israel, was:

1) the eye witnesses to His resurrection as recorded in the New Testament; the other was
2) the Old Testament prophecies which His life fulfilled.

Below are the prophecies written into the Old Testament as a witness to the Jewish nation
that they might recognize their long-promised Messiah, and to the Gentiles that they might recognize
that this is the work of the Hand of the God of all the earth:

I. The Literal Prophecies

A. Concerning His Birth

1. Born of the seed of woman (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:4; Matthew 1:20)
2. Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18, 24, 25)
3. Son of God (Psalm 2:7; Matthew 3:17)
4. Seed of Abraham (Genesis 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16) Here it is determined that the Messiah would be a Jewish descendant.
5. Son of Isaac (Genesis 21:12; Luke 3:23,34) Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael.
Now God eliminates one half of the lineage of Isaac.
6. Son of Jacob (Numbers 24:17; Luke 3:23,34) Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau.
Now God eliminates one half of the lineage of Isaac.
7. Tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23,33) Jacob had twelve sons and each became a tribe of the Hebrew nation.
Now God eliminates eleven-twelfths of the lineage of Jacob.
8. Family line of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1; Luke 3:23,32) God then narrowed it even further
by selecting one family line from the tribe of Judah.
9. House of David (Jeremiah 23:5; Luke 3:23,31) Jesse had at least eight sons (I Samuel 16:10,11).
God eliminated all of Jesse's sons but one, David.
10. Born at Bethlehem (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1) Next, God narrowed all the cities in the world down to one village, Bethlehem.
11. Presented with gifts (Psalm 72:10; Isaiah 60:6; Matthew 2:1,11)
12. Herod k**led children (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16)

B. Concerning His Nature

13. His Pre-Existence (Micah 5:2; Colossians 1:17; John 1:1)
14. He shall be called Lord (Psalm 110:1; Luke 20:41-44)
15. He shall be called Immanuel ("God with us") (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23)
16. Shall be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:18; Matthew 21:11)
17. Shall be a priest (Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:5,6)
18. Shall be a judge (Isaiah 33:22; John 5:30)
19. Shall be a king (Isaiah 33:22; Matthew 27:37)
20. Special anointment of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16,17)
21. His zeal for God (Psalm 69:9; John 2:15-17)

C. Foretelling His Ministry

22. Preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3; Matthew 3:1,2)
23. Ministry to begin in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1,2; Matthew 4:12,13,17)
24. Ministry of miracles (Isaiah 35:5, 6a; Matthew 9:35)
25. Teacher of parables (Psalm 78:2; Matthew 13:34)
26. He would enter the temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12)
27. He was to enter Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Luke 19:35,36,37a)
28. A "Stone Of Stumbling" to the Jewish nation (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)
29. A "Light" to the Gentiles (Isaiah 60:3; 49:6; Acts 13:47,48a)

D. Prophesied Events Following His Burial

30. His resurrection (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:31)
31. His ascension (Psalm 68:18a; Acts 1:9)
32. Seated at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

E. Prophecies Fulfilled In One Day

Following are twenty nine (29) prophecies from the Old Testament,
of the betrayal, trial, death and burial of Jesus, spoken forth at different times by God's chosen voices during five centuries from
1000-500 BC, and all were literally fulfilled in one twenty-four hour
period during Jesus' life.

33. Betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Matthew 10:4)
34. Sold for thirty (30) pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:15)
35. Money to be thrown down in God's house (Zechariah 11:13b; Matthew 27:5a)
36. Price given for potter's field (Zechariah 11:13b; Matthew 27:7)

In these previous four (4) prophecies are both prophecy and fulfillment:

1. Betrayed
2. By a friend
3. For 30 pieces of silver (not 29 or 31)
4. Silver (not gold)
5. Thrown down (not placed)
6. In God's house
7. The money used to buy the potter's field

37. He was forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7; Mark 14:50)
38. He was accused by false witnesses (Psalm 35:11; Matthew 26:59-61)
39. He was mute before accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-19)
40. He was wounded and bruised (Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 27:26)
41. He was smitten and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Micah 5:1; Matthew 26:67)
42. He was mocked (Psalm 22:7,8; Matthew 27:31)
43. He fell under the cross (Psalm 109:24; John 19:17; Luke 23:26)
44. His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16; Luke 23:33)
45. He was crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)
46. He made intercession for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)
47. He was rejected by his own people (Isaiah 53:3; John 7:5,48)
48. He was h**ed without a cause (Psalm 69:4; John 15:25)
49. His friends stood afar off (Psalm 38:11; Luke 23:49)
50. People shook their heads (Psalm 109:25; Matthew 27:39)
51. He was stared upon (Psalm 22:17; Luke 23:35)
52. His garments parted and lots cast (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23,24)
53. He suffered thirst (Psalm 69:21; John 19:28)
54. Gall and vinegar were offered to Him (Psalm 69:21; Matthew 27:34)
55. His forsaken cry (Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46)
56. He committed Himself to God (Psalm 31:5; Luke 23:46)
57. His bones were not broken (Psalm 34:20; John 19:33)
58. His heart broken (Psalm 22:14; John 19:34) The blood and water which came from Jesus' pierced side are evidences that the heart had literally burst.
59. His side was pierced (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)
60. There was darkness over the land (Amos 8:9; Matthew 27:45)
61. He was buried in a rich man's tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)

II. Objections Answered

A. Claim: Fulfilled Prophecies Were Actually Written At Or After The Time Of Jesus

Answer: If you do not accept the date of 450 BC as the date of the Old Testament completion,
the Septuagint, the Greek t***slation of the Old Testament, was completed in 250 BC.

Therefore, the time of the writing of the prophecies preceded,
by at least 250 years, their fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

B. Claim: The Fulfilled Prophecy In Jesus Was Deliberate On His Part.
He Knew The Old Testament And Deliberately Fulfilled Them.

Answer: There were many prophecies He Did Not personally control:

1. Place of birth (Micah 5:2)
2. Time of birth (Daniel 9:25; Genesis 49:10)
3. Manner of birth (Isaiah 7:14)
4. Betrayal
5. Manner of death (Psalm 22:16)
6. People's reactions (Mocking, spitting, staring, etc.)
7. Piercing of His side
8. Burial

C. Claim: The Fulfilled Prophecy In Jesus Was Coincidental, An Accident

Answer: Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Chicago: Moody Press, 1963)
determined the probability of one man fulfilling eight of the prophecies
of the Old Testament for the Messiah to be 1 in 10 to the 17th power.

Now let's try to imagine what this means. If we took that many silver
dollars (100,000,000,000,000,000) and laid them over the State of
Texas, they would cover the state two feet deep. Mark one of the silver dollars, stir them thoroughly, blindfold a person, and tell him/her that
they can travel as far as they want but must pick up one silver dollar and say that it is the marked one. What chance would there be of picking up the right one? It would be the precise same odds of anyone
fulfilling eight of the Messianic prophecies by chance alone.

Peter Stoner then considered the possibility of any one person fulfilling
48 of the prophecies by chance. The odds jump to 1 in 10 to the 157th power.

That number would look like this:

1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Conclusion:

"Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things which have not been done; Saying, 'My purpose will be established,
and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.'"
(Isaiah 46:9,10)

"I declare the former things long ago and they went forth from My mouth, and I proclaimed them.
Suddenly, I acted and they came to pass. Therefore, I declared them to you long ago,
before they took place I proclaimed them to you, lest you say,
'My idol has done them, and my graven image and my molten image have commanded them.'" (Isaiah 48:3,5)

Primary Resources:

Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell
Answers To Tough Questions by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart
The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? by F.F. Bruce
Know Why You Believe by Paul Little
https://bible.org/article/messianic-prophecies

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Nice presentation. But, according to DummyBoy this is a private discussion between Skott and he. I will offer no more opinions. Again, nice write up.