Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

If you don't remember than maybe you don't even take yourself seriously.

Slow down on trying to be busybodyboss.

You did try to intimidate me by saying that you were about to dust off your feet.

You said "it's about to get real"

Don't lie about it now.

Don't worry, it gave me a chuckle.

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

Just like the Bible, you read into it what you want it to be.

That was not a threat. It meant that you were going to start hearing reality and not your fantasy.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Whatever. So when do you start into reality?

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

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Meaning of divinity of Jesus Christ
The Divinity of Jesus Christ is the belief that Jesus Christ is God. And this belief is one of the central beliefs of the Christian faith and it is relevant to our salvation. To understand the Divinity of Jesus Christ, we need to know who He is.

Who is Jesus Christ?
The person we know today as Jesus Christ has long been there before His first coming to this earth; He told us that Himself when He said,

“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 8:58

The man we know today as Jesus Christ has been there from eternity in heaven. He had been with God before anything was made, before angels, before the earth, and before humans. But then, He was not called Jesus Christ, neither was He a human being. The Bible testifies about Him that He is the Word of God –

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
John 1:1-3

In heaven, Jesus is known or called by the name the Word of God. Apostle John testified,

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:11-13

So Jesus is the Word of God. There is something about God that really sets Him apart from us and makes Him much of a God. Man’s word – what we say – is a sound that gives information and nothing more. It is not the same with God; God’s word is alive and gives life. God’s word is a living person who can be seen and touched. This person was later born into this world and was given the name Jesus Christ. The Word was not created. Actually, you do not creat your word, rather it has been part of you since your birth and it is as old as you are. The Word has always been with God and has always been part of God.

From the beginning, the Word of God has been the living tool of God, for God does everything by His Word. He does not do anything without His word:

God blesses by His Word, E.g.: Genesis 1:22; Genesis 1:28; Genesis 22:16-18; etc.
God curses by His Word, E.g.: Genesis 3:14-19; Genesis 4:11-12; etc.
God creates by His Word – He says things that are not there and they come to be, Eg.: Genesis 1:3; Genesis 1:9; etc.
God destroys by His Word, E.g.: Genesis 6:7; etc.

Basically, the Word makes God reign as God. The Word is as powerful as God Himself for God does everything He wants to do by using His word – He speaks and it comes to pass. The Word is His living tool. He exercises His power, His sovereignty, and His authority by His Word. The Word, hence, cannot be less powerful than God. He is God and just as powerful as God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

The Word of God came to the earth
Because of the salvation of humanity, the Word of God was to be born into this world to bring salvation to man – salvation from sin, Satan, death, hell and the wrath of God. According to angel Gabriel, when He is born, He would be called by the name Jesus and many other names:

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Luke 2:11

30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 “And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” 34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” 35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:30 – 35

“…and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
Like 3:22

Is Jesus God? Answers from Jesus Christ Himself
The Divinity of Jesus has been an issue of controversy for ages; right from the days of His ministry on this earth to this day. It is about time we took Jesus at His word and considered His attitude with respect to the subject of His Divinity to draw conclusions from it. What does Jesus Himself say about His Divinity? From the buildup above, one should not entertain any doubt that Jesus is God. The Bible says it so glaringly that Jesus, the Word of God, is God. He creates and reigns together with the Father and the Spirit. It was not Christians who forced it on Jesus that He is God; rather, Jesus Christ Himself claimed, accepted, and taught the people that He is God. Let revisit a few of Jesus’ words that were His claims that He is God:

30 “I and My Father are one.” 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
John 10:30 – 33

When Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
John 18:6

After Jesus said, ‘I and My Father are one,’ the Jews wanted to stone Him to death. Why? Because they understood well what He meant to say. He meant to say that He is God and equal with God, the Father; and they thought He has spoken blasphemy.

17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” 18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:17, 18

Right from His earthly life, Jesus Christ was well understood that He claims to be God and makes Himself equal with God. The Bible testifies that Jesus was a perfect, righteous man

57 Then those who had seized Jesus led him to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders had gathered. 58 And Peter was following him at a distance, as far as the courtyard of the high priest, and going inside he sat with the guards to see the end. 59 Now the chief priests and the whole council[h] were seeking false testimony against Jesus that they might put him to death, 60 but they found none, though many false witnesses came forward. At last two came forward 61 and said, “This man said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to rebuild it in three days.’” 62 And the high priest stood up and said, “Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?”[i] 63 But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. 66 What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death.” 67 Then they spit in his face and struck him. And some slapped him, 68 saying, “Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?”
Matthew 26: 57-68

“Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”
1 Peter 2:21-22

Jesus Christ did not sin and never lied. Now if such a person said that He is God, why should we doubt Him? We have to believe Him, for He would not have said it if it was not true.

Other evidences of Jesus’ divinity
Angels are not to be worshiped
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.” 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!“
Revelation 22:6,8,9

What is happening here is that after the angel of God has shown Apostle John all the wonderful revelations, John, stunned and moved by gratitude, wanted to worship the angel for his good work. But the angel refused, for angels are not to be worship; only God should be worshiped. So the angel said to John, “Do not do it. …. Worship God!”

Holy men of God are not to be worshiped
25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
Acts 10: 25, 26

An angel of God told a man called Cornelius to send for Peter and he did. And when Peter came, Cornelius, as a form of reverence, fell down to worship him, but Peter rebuked him, and refused that he should be worship, for he is just a man and should not be worshiped. Only God should be worshiped.

God alone should be worshiped
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
Exodus 20:4,5

By this command, God meant that mankind should not bow down and worship anyone or anything, be it human or angel or idols, etc.; only God should be worshiped.

Jesus Christ is God so He accepted worship
Now Jesus Christ was worshiped several times as recorded in the Bible. Let see some biblical evidences –

Evidence 1: The magi worshiped baby Jesus
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Matthew 2:11

Evidence 2: The man born blind worshiped Jesus
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” 36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” 38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him (Jesus).
John 9:35 – 38

Evidence 3: The disciples worshiped Jesus
25 Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea. 26 And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.” 28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.” 29 So He said, “Come.” And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!” 31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” 32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased. 33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.”
Matthew 14:25-33

Jesus was worshiped yet He did not rebuke anyone for worshiping Him, neither did He refused that He should be worshiped; rather He accepted it. All these lead to the truth that Jesus is no ordinary person but God.

Other claims of Jesus Christ that are evidence of His divinity
Other claims of Jesus that proves His Divinity:

Jesus claimed He is eternal: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)
Jesus claimed He gives life: “For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
John 5:21

Jesus claimed He shall judge mankind: ‘For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, John 5:22.

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
John 10:34-36

At any point in time, if you should ask anyone to tell you one sin that Jesus did, or report one lie that Jesus told, or to say one moral weakness of Jesus, he or she will find nothing provable to say. Jesus never sinned, never lied and had no such thing as moral weakness as we have. Therefore, what justifies our doubts about His claims? He is right about everything He said about Himself and we have to believe Him.

troysal.

I’d suggest you stop cherry-picking verses in the Bible in order to buttress your own religious beliefs; or lack thereof. All you’re doing is taking a portion of an entire episode and trying to re-frame it to fit your narrative by suggesting false conclusions. To fully understand the passage you highlighted, you need to include more of the passage. Add Vs 42 thru 49 to get a truer picture.

“42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

alabuck,

Thanks for taking time to read the article and to respond. Needless to say, i strongly disagree with your interpretation (which is just the standard christian interpretation) of the passages you cited. I have alternative interpretations to just about all of those passages somewhere on my blog and explanations for those interpretations and if you are interested I can give you the specific links to the articles that will provide them. Let me know, and if not I understand.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Everyone must make a choice, Troy,

There have been millions of lost souls through the corridors of time who have been unwilling to forego their pride and kneel at Jesus' feet.

The "standard Christian" response to what God has written is that of every Berean, and the angels in heaven never fail to applaud it.

Your willful choice of alternate "interpretations" are enthusiastically applauded by Satan and His demonic hordes.

1 Corinthians 13:6: "Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth."

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Christian tradition is simply the interpretations of scripture which were given by some specific individual or group at some point in history and has become entrenched in the thinking of Christians and has been given the status of orthodoxy. But every tradition must be examined by subsequent generations, not merely blindly accepted. People like you, who are so wedded to the traditions, typically demonize anyone who dares to question the traditions. There were people who attacked our Lord Jesus in this same manner, because he challenged their long standing traditions- they are usually called by Jesus blind guides of the blind and hypocrites. Like these tradition mongers of the past you label all challenges to your cherished traditions as evil and demonic. For you the passage you cited really reads like this:

"Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the tradition." How sad for you!

Rose42

Have you had no luck promoting yourself on bigger sites then?

People don’t attack you like they did Jesus. Oh my. Like others you wrongly presume no one studies as thoroughly as you or no one ever examines anything like you do. The pharisees had the same haughty attitude. How sad indeed

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

The Pharisees were the ones big on tradition and arrogant in their knowledge of the tradition.

Rose42

Their arrogance was in more than that. I know who they were.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Are you more righteous than the pharisee, in God's eyes?

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

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troysal,

As you may well be aware, the Bible, over the centuries, has been translated and interpreted into a lot of versions and editions. Being as the masses were illiterate and the church had developed a hierarchy that was dedicated to disallowing the teachings of the Bible by anyone but the priests, the masses didn’t have the opportunity to read the Word and decide its meanings for themselves.

By the time of Jesus and his disciples, the Hebrew Bible had already been established as 39 books. This was what Jesus meant when he referred to "the Scriptures."

After the early church was established, people such as Matthew started writing historical records of Jesus' life and ministry, which became known as the Gospels. Church leaders such as Paul and Peter wanted to provide direction for the churches they established, so they wrote letters that were circulated throughout congregations in different regions. We call these the “Epistles.”

A century after the launch of the church, there were hundreds of letters and books that explained who Jesus was and what he did and how to live as his follower. It became clear that some of these writings weren't authentic. Church members began to ask which books should be followed and which ignored.​

Eventually, Christian church leaders worldwide gathered to answer major theological questions, including which books should be regarded as "true, God-inspired Scripture." These gatherings included the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 and, 56 years later, the 1st Council of Constantinople, in A.D. 381, which developed a criteria as to how a book should be included in the Bible. The criteria allowed a book or letter to be included in the Bible (canonized) of it met the following criteria:

Written by one of Jesus' disciples, someone who was a witness to Jesus' ministry, such as Peter, or someone who interviewed witnesses, such as Luke.

Written in the first century A.D., meaning that books written long after the events of Jesus' life and the first decades of the church weren't included.

Consistent with other portions of the Bible known to be valid, meaning the book couldn't contradict a trusted element of Scripture.

After a few decades of debate, these councils largely settled which books should be included in the Bible. A few years later, all were published by Jerome in a single volume.

By the time the first century A.D. ended, most of the church had agreed on which books should be considered Scripture. The earliest church members took guidance from the writings of Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, and others. The later councils and debates were largely useful in weeding out inferior books that claimed the same authority.

troysal, your comment about my understanding of the Bible being “…just the standard Christian interpretation… ,” caused me to reflect upon what Jesus said about understanding and faith. From what you said, I get the impression that you consider yourself extremely knowledgeable in ecclesiastical writings. From that, you come across as rather haughty I would caution you too that your “alternate interpretations” could have caused you to go down the wrong path.

The Bible is the written source of of Christianity. From it comes the truthful Word of God. Some people believe the Bible is “God-breathed” and is absolutely, 100% infallible. Others believe the Bible is,”written by man but divinely inspired.” Different Christian religions and sects even differ in what is included in the Bible’s they use. Christian Bibles vary from 66 books to 81 books, depending on which religion, denomination or sect you’re referencing. So, unless you’re starting your own Christian sect, denomination or religion, modifying or buttressing the Bible with your “Alternative interpretations” would only bastardized the Bible.

Read the texts below. Diving into deep, ecclesiastical thought isn’t a requirement for getting into Heaven. Having the ‘faith of a child” is all that’s needed.

Mark 10:13-21
And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

Luke 18:15-17
Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them. And when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”

Matthew 18:1-14
At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, ...

2 Timothy 3:14-15
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

How many human children do you know that have any inclination to delve into deep, Christian, theological study, yet believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They may not understand the Trinity, but to them, it’s all the same. You tell them that, “God is good” and “Jesus loves you,” and they’re with it, 100%.

I don’t allow myself to get involved with “alternative interpretations.” Unless they’re based in a provable, sound, Biblical foundation, where they originated from will always cause them to be suspect in my book.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

alabuck,

Yes, Jesus commended the humility of children as being worthy of imitation, but the analogy can not be pushed too far. Jesus certainly wasn't commending the the gullibility of children, who tend to believe whatever they are taught, which is why they believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and other fantasies. Imagine an ancient Israelite father teaching his young son that to worship Baal along with Yahweh is necessary; the child would have likely believed what his father told him, yet it would be wrong. We must not use Jesus teaching in those passages as an endorsement of credulity.

"Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." 1 Cor. 14:20

"When I was a child I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things." 1 Cor 13:11

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Self promotion is one..(I'll stay out of) but your truth is just that,... It's "your" truth.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

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Paul has written that when "the perfect," comes, meaning Christ, He will reveal all things to us. For now, our knowledge about God and His ways is partial. Then, when we're with Him in eternity, we will know fully (1 John 3:1–2).

One reason God gives spiritual gifts to believers now is for us to build each other up. Those abilities are meant to "grow up" the church. Paul put it this way in Ephesians 4:11–12: "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ."

That passage shows that, eventually, the church will mature to the point that we reach the, "fullness of Christ." This will happen only after He arrives, but it is the course we are currently on. The gifts are needed to keep the process going until He comes, then they will be needed no longer.

To illustrate this idea, Paul refers to himself, first, as a child, who lived in childish ways, and then, as an adult who put away that childish understanding of the world when he became a man. The same will happen for believers when Christ returns. Our partial understanding about God will become full, mature "knowing."