TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Why would any Christian waste their time to watch a video with the title: Three blunders of the Trinity? 😳

Rose42

I started watching it. Whats interesting is unitarians rely on the secular to promote their belief.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Because you might learn something you now do not know.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

So examining the historical data is 'secular'? How so? You can't study the Bible to discover how doctrine developed in the centuries after the Bible was written.

Rose42

That isn’t what I said. Unitarians look for ways to rationalize what they believe - as many do.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Or, from our perspective, we are just seeking to understand scripture within it's historical setting and we see inconsistencies between what has become known as 'orthodoxy' and what scripture actually says. Trinitarians can be said to rationalize when it comes to offering weak explanations for why the scriptures do not actually teach this doctrine in any explicit way, and why it took 300 yrs to develop the doctrine, over against the idea that it is a doctrine essential to one's salvation. Listen to what Millard Erickson, the well known Protestant trinitarian theologian said:

It is claimed that the doctrine of the Trinity is a very important, crucial, and even basic doctrine. If that is indeed the case, should it not be somewhere more clearly, directly, and explicitly stated in the Bible? If this is the doctrine that especially constitutes Christianity’s uniqueness, as over against Unitarian monotheism on the one hand, and polytheism on the other hand, how can it be only implied in the biblical revelation? In response to the complaint that a number of portions of the Bible are ambiguous or unclear, we often hear a statement something like, ‘It is the peripheral matters that are hazy or in which there seems to be conflicting biblical materials. The core beliefs are clearly and unequivocally revealed.’ This argument would appear to fail us with respect to the doctrine of the Trinity, however. For here is a seemingly crucial matter where the Scriptures do not speak loudly and clearly. Little direct response can be made to this charge. It is unlikely that any text of Scripture can be shown to teach the doctrine of the Trinity in a clear, direct, and unmistakable fashion. (Millard Erickson, God in Three Persons: A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity, pp.108-109)

Rose42

Not going down that rabbit hole again. Yes unitarians think they know the truth yet they twist and misuse scripture as many others do.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

I’m well aware of the beliefs and the arguments of the Unitarians and their false ideology concerning the Trinity. They cannot dispute these scriptures even with their circular reasoning!

https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.



The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

TexaCan,

I won't pick on you for simply pasting someone else's explanation of the Trinity rather than you yourself defining it, since most Christians cannot define it or defend it from scripture themselves. Hence, they rely on the 'experts' to do it for them. The whole argument put forward by the writer of that page from Got Questions.com is refuted by looking two more verses down from the second passage cited - 1 Cor. 8:4. In v. 6 we read:

"Yet for us (i.e. believers in Jesus) there is but one God, the Father . . ."

The simplicity of scripture puts to shame the complex and convoluted notions of God that men have devised. The formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity was devised by three men in particular in the 4th century, known as the Cappadocian Fathers, Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory of Nazianzus. Now if you want to follow some men from the 4th century who were highly influenced by Greek philosophy, then have at it. As for me I'll stick with Peter, John, James, Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul.

Rose42

Here we go again.

You too use the words of others for your opinion. Much has been written about it already and no one's mind has changed. You'll stick with your opinion is what you should say. You merely cheapen Christ's work on the cross.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Rose42,

I notice that you didn't comment on the 1 Cor. 8:6 passage I cited; could you please do so?

Rose42

There are other passages that refute unitarianism. I said I was not going down that rabbit hole again.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

I did not cite the verse to refute trinitarianism but to show that scripture affirms the basic truth of unitarianism - that the one God is the Father. This was the earliest confession of believers - I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth, AND in HIS son, Jesus Christ our Lord. This is the foundational truth upon which all of scripture is built.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Well, I can’t express how relieved I am that you aren’t going to pick on me! LOL!

How often does this line work for you? 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

I notice how you only answered the part of my post that doesn't require you to defend your belief. I cited a passage which clearly and unambiguously states that the one God is the Father and you just pass right over it without comment as if it were irrelevant. I also gave you some historical information that perhaps you could have easily looked up and then commented on, but nothing, just a short quip and smiley faces. Wow, that's deep.