Christ: Title of Divinity?
Apr 2, 2021 09:55:33 #
troysal wrote:
Zemirah,
It is rather naive of you to think that your 'truth' is arrived at purely according to the "plain" or "obvious" meaning of the text, as if you have not been influenced (it's called indoctrination) to read the scriptures in a certain way.
It is rather naive of you to think that your 'truth' is arrived at purely according to the "plain" or "obvious" meaning of the text, as if you have not been influenced (it's called indoctrination) to read the scriptures in a certain way.
If she has then so have you. Its naive of you to think you have ‘discovered’ truth others have overlooked.
Apr 2, 2021 10:24:23 #
troysal
Loc: Picayune MS
Rose42,
I believed like her for over 35 yrs. Like her I was taught to read scripture in light of tradition and to never question the tradition. It was only after breaking out of that mentality that I was able to see what I was unable to see before; that's what tradition does, it blinds us. Once I saw the 'truth' I had no other choice but to follow it, and that at some cost. So while it is true that my 'truth' is based on my interpretation of scripture, it is not naivete that leads me to my interpretation, but careful analysis of the text within it's proper cultural context. As I discover more truth I ammend what I may have wrongly understood. Those who are bound to their traditions can never do such a thing.
I believed like her for over 35 yrs. Like her I was taught to read scripture in light of tradition and to never question the tradition. It was only after breaking out of that mentality that I was able to see what I was unable to see before; that's what tradition does, it blinds us. Once I saw the 'truth' I had no other choice but to follow it, and that at some cost. So while it is true that my 'truth' is based on my interpretation of scripture, it is not naivete that leads me to my interpretation, but careful analysis of the text within it's proper cultural context. As I discover more truth I ammend what I may have wrongly understood. Those who are bound to their traditions can never do such a thing.
Apr 2, 2021 11:12:00 #
troysal wrote:
Rose42, br br I believed like her for over 35 yrs... (show quote)
As I said, you are naive. People often think they have discovered a new truth. There’s not one person out there who thinks their own careful examination of scripture leads to the truth.
I have come across many who say the same thing you do - including prosperity gospel believers and the name it and claim it crowd.
Apr 2, 2021 13:10:07 #
troysal
Loc: Picayune MS
Rose42 wrote:
As I said, you are naive. People often think they have discovered a new truth. There’s not one person out there who thinks their own careful examination of scripture leads to the truth.
I have come across many who say the same thing you do - including prosperity gospel believers and the name it and claim it crowd.
I have come across many who say the same thing you do - including prosperity gospel believers and the name it and claim it crowd.
I don't claim to have discovered a 'new' truth, just an old one that I had been blind to. The belief that Jesus was a purely human Messiah is the oldest belief in 'Christianity'. It wasn't until the 1st quarter to middle of the 2nd century that the idea that Jesus was more than human began to be accepted, and this by gentile believers who were educated in Greek philosophical schools. They interpreted Jesus through what they knew best - Greek metaphysics. Jesus didn't become 'fully God' until the 4th century. This is all historically verifiable fact.
Apr 2, 2021 13:40:26 #
troysal wrote:
I don't claim to have discovered a 'new' truth, ju... (show quote)
You claim the same thing as millions of others have. That you have an understanding of truth others don’t based on your opinion of history.
I’ve heard all this before too.
Apr 2, 2021 17:45:28 #
troysal wrote:
Zemirah,
It is rather naive of you to think that your 'truth' is arrived at purely according to the "plain" or "obvious" meaning of the text, as if you have not been influenced (it's called indoctrination) to read the scriptures in a certain way.
It is rather naive of you to think that your 'truth' is arrived at purely according to the "plain" or "obvious" meaning of the text, as if you have not been influenced (it's called indoctrination) to read the scriptures in a certain way.
Please speak for yourself. Don't attempt to speak for me.
troysal wrote:
So the 'truth' for each becomes what they assume the Bible is saying. Many, rather than searching out for themselves, just accept the prevailing traditions as the 'truth' because it's easier that way.
Many may indeed do just that, but unless/until you have interviewed each of those believers personally, you have no knowledge of what "they" know, what "they" have studied, or what "they" assume.
You are stereotyping everyone except yourself.
Again, speak for yourself only.
Apr 2, 2021 17:51:46 #
You couldn't be more any wrong if that were your dedicated goal.
If the earliest Christians hadn't believed Jesus was Deity, there would have been no early Christians.
There would have been no Christians at all.
Your self-professed 35 year spiritual blindness is your own.
Don't attempt to impose it on anyone else, including me.
If the earliest Christians hadn't believed Jesus was Deity, there would have been no early Christians.
There would have been no Christians at all.
Your self-professed 35 year spiritual blindness is your own.
Don't attempt to impose it on anyone else, including me.
troysal wrote:
I don't claim to have discovered a 'new' truth, ju... (show quote)
Apr 2, 2021 18:03:43 #
troysal
Loc: Picayune MS
Zemirah,
You really should do some study of the development of doctrine within Christianity in the early years, but not from a christian apologist, but from an unbiased historical source. You will find that things are not what you may have been led to believe. Have you read any of the ante-Nicene fathers?
You really should do some study of the development of doctrine within Christianity in the early years, but not from a christian apologist, but from an unbiased historical source. You will find that things are not what you may have been led to believe. Have you read any of the ante-Nicene fathers?
Apr 2, 2021 18:11:14 #
Troysal,
Had you done the most rudimentary Bible Study, you would know Jesus despised the man made traditions the Jewish Priests, Rabbis/teachers, i.e., the Sanhedrin had created and elevated above the God given actual holy Scriptures with which the Hebrews/Jewish people had been blessed.
No one who takes the Bible seriously abandons it for any man made system of belief or interpretation, nor do they obscure the truth of God's word for any denominational "tradition."
You are now committing the most grievous error of denying Jesus as He is revealed to be, and attempting to substitute "another" Jesus who does not exist.
Because you committed and are committing these errors, you cannot assume others have or are doing so.
Had you done the most rudimentary Bible Study, you would know Jesus despised the man made traditions the Jewish Priests, Rabbis/teachers, i.e., the Sanhedrin had created and elevated above the God given actual holy Scriptures with which the Hebrews/Jewish people had been blessed.
No one who takes the Bible seriously abandons it for any man made system of belief or interpretation, nor do they obscure the truth of God's word for any denominational "tradition."
You are now committing the most grievous error of denying Jesus as He is revealed to be, and attempting to substitute "another" Jesus who does not exist.
Because you committed and are committing these errors, you cannot assume others have or are doing so.
troysal wrote:
Rose42, br br I believed like her for over 35 yrs... (show quote)
Apr 2, 2021 18:26:55 #
God wrote His Word for the simplest and for the most profound, i.e., for the common man, the man on the street, and for the eminent PhD. in his ivory tower, and for everyone in between.
To write what you have here to me or anyone else, without having walking one mile in my or their moccasins, is so far beyond ignorant and so lacking in respect, it deserves no further response.
To write what you have here to me or anyone else, without having walking one mile in my or their moccasins, is so far beyond ignorant and so lacking in respect, it deserves no further response.
troysal wrote:
Zemirah,
It is rather naive of you to think that your 'truth' is arrived at purely according to the "plain" or "obvious" meaning of the text, as if you have not been influenced (it's called indoctrination) to read the scriptures in a certain way.
It is rather naive of you to think that your 'truth' is arrived at purely according to the "plain" or "obvious" meaning of the text, as if you have not been influenced (it's called indoctrination) to read the scriptures in a certain way.
Apr 2, 2021 18:39:02 #
Rather, it is being obedient to the unadulterated Word of God in Romans 16:17-18:
"Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."
"Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."
troysal wrote:
That's like a Democrat warning people to not go to a Replublican website for information because it is not a good source - purely subjective.
Apr 2, 2021 18:54:49 #
Apr 2, 2021 19:17:32 #
troysal wrote:
Zemirah,
You really should do some study of the development of doctrine within Christianity in the early years, but not from a christian apologist, but from an unbiased historical source. You will find that things are not what you may have been led to believe. Have you read any of the ante-Nicene fathers?
You really should do some study of the development of doctrine within Christianity in the early years, but not from a christian apologist, but from an unbiased historical source. You will find that things are not what you may have been led to believe. Have you read any of the ante-Nicene fathers?
There is no such thing as an unbiased source.
Apr 2, 2021 19:40:01 #
John 14:24-25 speaks of the Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Three in One:
The Son receives the Father's Words, and the Holy Spirit takes them from Him to inspire the Old Testament (Tanakh) prophets and the New Testament (B'rit Hadashah) apostles to write them in a book.
24: "Whoever does not love me does not keep My words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
25: "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you.
26: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
What is God's Truth?
God put a plumb-line in Eden. Do you know what that means?
The plumb-line was God's standard by which His people would be measured.
The prophet Amos sees the Lord standing by a wall built true to plumb (vertical), and the wall is built true to plumb because the Lord built the wall using the plumb-line that He held in His hand.
The Bible shows Christ, at the end, measuring the church with a plumb-line, testing for uprightness, by standards of justice and righteousness.
Look it up.
The Son receives the Father's Words, and the Holy Spirit takes them from Him to inspire the Old Testament (Tanakh) prophets and the New Testament (B'rit Hadashah) apostles to write them in a book.
24: "Whoever does not love me does not keep My words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
25: "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you.
26: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
What is God's Truth?
God put a plumb-line in Eden. Do you know what that means?
The plumb-line was God's standard by which His people would be measured.
The prophet Amos sees the Lord standing by a wall built true to plumb (vertical), and the wall is built true to plumb because the Lord built the wall using the plumb-line that He held in His hand.
The Bible shows Christ, at the end, measuring the church with a plumb-line, testing for uprightness, by standards of justice and righteousness.
Look it up.
troysal wrote:
Zemirah, br br I appreciate your obvious love of ... (show quote)
Apr 3, 2021 09:24:31 #
troysal
Loc: Picayune MS
Zemirah,
This is a good example of how people tend to just read their beliefs into the text of scripture. There is nothing in the passage you quoted that necessitates the belief in the Trinity.
The rest of what you said may sound erudite but is meaningless because it depends on your own private allegorical interpretation.
Did you watch the video?
This is a good example of how people tend to just read their beliefs into the text of scripture. There is nothing in the passage you quoted that necessitates the belief in the Trinity.
The rest of what you said may sound erudite but is meaningless because it depends on your own private allegorical interpretation.
Did you watch the video?
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