olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Let me add this. Some might brand me "King James only", a description I do not reject because as yet the King James Bible is the only version which does not make God a fool.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Trouble is most Christians don't have a pastor/Church that uses the KJV and use the Concordance to get to the original meaning of the text.
That takes time, and a pastor that is also a scholar to teach it.
That is rare these days.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

I understand what you say, but my friend I don't think you fully understand what I'm attempting to say.
You don't need a concordance to get to any original meaning. IMO the KJB is God's original meaning for us today. All you have to do is read it and believe it. If you believe it, in time God will give you understanding.
God does not give understanding to anyone who does not first believe His plain writing in English.
Most modern versions are written and supported by scholars who don't believe what they read so they rewrite to suite their own understanding.

I would add that for years I did fine a dictionary of early English was handy in describing some words. For instance the word "shambles" in 1 Cor 10:25, the dictionary says in the day of the writing of the KJB that meant market or grocery store, ok, makes sense without changing a thing.

Now I find online Bible search programs like Bible Gateway very helpful.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

"Was he the one who taught you the unbeliever lost person does not go to hell?"
Nope.
It studies the definition of "Hell" in the Bible.

Separation from Yahweh being one of them.
No eternal fire and torture.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22 - KJV
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Matthew 18:9 - KJV
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mark 9:43 - KJV
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. James 3:6 - KJV

Sounds a little hot to me, but of course your definition of fire might be different than mine.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

What is it you believe Psalm 12:7 is addressing, Oleg?

With all due respect, you haven't a clue what I or anyone else believes or "feels" (to even claim to is devolving into psychobabble) that God has or has not fulfilled.

God's Word has no less power today than on the day it was first breathed forth.

Your fixation on the NIV is yours alone.

Psalm 12:7:
Thou shalt preserve them (Hebrew, him) from this generation for ever.

The substitution of "him' for "them" in this clause is a generalization by which a whole class of people are summed up in a single individual - " all men" in "man," "all good men" in "the righteous" (צַדִּיק), and the like.

The "generation" is that of the worldly men in power at the time, of whom we have heard in Psalm 3:1, 2, 6, 7; Psalm 4:2; Psalm 5:4-6, 9, 10; Psalm 6:8; Psalm 7:1, 2, 9, 13-16; Psalm 10:2-11, 15; Psalm 11:2, 3, 6. "For ever" means "so long as they live."


Everyone of the following modern translations of the Holy Bible IS God's Word.

The original writing that was written by each Prophet, or Apostle, or his scribe, as the words were received through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, have decayed or been burnt or dissolved in water, or buried in dust, hundreds if not thousands of years ago; Not one of the original scrolls or pages exists today.

The same Holy Spirit who inspired the writing of the original pages indwells every believer today, to give them understanding as they read from any of these translations below, which were copied from copies of the originals:


American Standard Version
Thou wilt keep them, O Jehovah, Thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.

New American Standard Bible
You, LORD, will keep them; You will protect him from this generation forever.

NASB 1995
You, O LORD, will keep them; You will preserve him from this generation forever.

NASB 1977
Thou, O LORD, wilt keep them; Thou wilt preserve him from this generation forever.

Amplified Bible
You, O LORD, will preserve and keep them; You will protect him from this [evil] generation forever.

New International Version
You, LORD, will keep the needy safe and will protect us forever from the wicked,

New Living Translation
Therefore, LORD, we know you will protect the oppressed, preserving them forever from this lying generation,

English Standard Version
You, O LORD, will keep them; you will guard us from this generation forever.

Berean Study Bible
You, O LORD, will keep us; You will forever guard us from this generation.

King James Bible
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

New King James Version
You shall keep them, O LORD, You shall preserve them from this generation forever.

Christian Standard Bible
You, LORD, will guard us; you will protect us from this generation forever.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You, LORD, will guard us; You will protect us from this generation forever.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Thou, O Lord, shalt keep us, and shalt preserve us, from this generation, and for ever.

Contemporary English Version
You will protect us and always keep us safe from those people.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou, O Lord, wilt preserve us.: and keep us from this generation for ever.

English Revised Version
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
O LORD, you will protect them. You will keep each one safe from those people forever.

International Standard Version
You, LORD, will keep them safe, you will guard them from this generation forever.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Thou wilt keep them, O LORD; Thou wilt preserve us from this generation for ever.

Literal Standard Version
You, O YHWH, preserve them, You keep us from this generation for all time.

NET Bible
You, LORD, will protect them; you will continually shelter each one from these evil people,

New Heart English Bible
You, LORD, will protect us. You will guard us from this generation forever.

World English Bible
You will keep them, Yahweh. You will preserve them from this generation forever.

Young's Literal Translation
Thou, O Jehovah, dost preserve them, Thou keepest us from this generation to the age.

Cross References:

Psalm 5:11
But let all who take refuge in You rejoice; let them ever shout for joy. May You shelter them, that those who love Your name may rejoice in You.

Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loves justice and will not forsake His saints. They are preserved forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off.

Psalm 97:10
Hate evil, O you who love the LORD! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

FYI, the NIV (New International Version) was written for people from other countries, those who do not speak English as their native language. It is rated at an eight grade reading level.

The New American Standard is graded at a twelve grade level, and the King James at a thirteen year or Freshman in college level.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is within all these translations of God's Holy Word.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

If any human were capable of making of Almighty God a fool, they would be God... which is, of course, impossible; they would but make of themself a fool.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Olegig, There is not, nor will there ever be, one sole version of the English Bible which must be read to the exclusion of all others.

That sounds very cultish.

Never have I heard any Christian ask relative strangers which ONE edition, version or translation of the Holy Bible he must read.

The only pseudo-religion that does that is Islam, who insists that all Muslims, in order to understand its true meaning, must learn Arabic and read the Qur'an in Arabic.

Most of my computer software Bibles have a "COMPARE" feature allowing a verse or selection of all twenty six (26) or so Bible versions to be displayed on one page.

I understand you're not seriously seeking information as you believe you have the be-all and end-all.

If you were seriously in a quandary, which you are not as you've been flashing the King James Bible like a neon sign in each of your posts, it would be appropriate to pray, ask God for guidance, then compare the available versions as to suitability to you personally.

If concerned about the use of the original languages, get the Greek-Hebrew Key Word Study Bible. It's available in the NAS, ESV, KJV, and NKJV.

Determine what denominational or organizational backing each Bible version received in production, and to which Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, reference was made.

Whether produced by a committee of fifty or 100 participating scholars, or by a handful of church officials, the names of those who actually edited the Bible should be made available.

Every Christian knows Christian ministers and elders, and Christian authors they respect, those who appear to be living Christian lives. If you lack time or opportunity to read portions from each Bible, find out what Bible versions they use in their messages and publications, and their reasoning in doing so.

Obviously, avoid those produced by an acknowledged cult who believe they were given a new original revelation from God (such as Joseph Smith [Mormons], Mary Baker Eddy [Christian Science], Charles Russell [Jehovah's Witnesses - originally known as Russellites] or Ellen White [SDAs]), etc., in obvious defiance of the warning at the end of Revelation 22.

I've found the best online website for comparison, of individual verses or entire chapters, or just to quickly read a verse within its context, to be BibleHub.com.

Some Bibles are translated into English word for word, others phrase for phrase, still others are paraphrased. People have read, studied and communicated with God through each of these different styles, and have come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit has never been informed that He is capable of communicating through only ONE of the many available Bible versions, so I believe you are mistaken.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Your right, I should have said "attempt" to make God a fool.

Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. Numbers 14:30 NIV
Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? Hebrews 3:16 NIV

I use the KJB because as yet I have found no place it disagrees with itself within itself as shown in the above. I only presented the above from the niv, but since you do use an online Bible, you can easily see this disagreement in most modern versions.
I would hope you would agree God would not make mistake as shown above.

The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalm 12:6-7 KJV

I don't know if you misspoke or are perhaps following one of those cultish leaders you recommended; but any Bible student can see the context of the above is "words" found in vs 6 and referred to as "them" in vs 7.

As I said earlier inspiration without preservation would be a waste of Devine inspiration.
Awh yes, inspiration, seems you have a different view of the application of inspiration than does God.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 KJV

As we see from the above inspiration comes to something after it is formed, not while it is being made.

Ok, using the version of your choice please show us why if Jesus spoke of the Rapture of the Church it does not make Paul a liar when he said he was the first to speak of the mystery.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Yet another request; this one you can give quick response, you don't have to search a library for the proper response to c/p, a few clicks at your chosen online Bible is all that is needed.

The word CALVARY is very important to most Christians. It can be found in many hymns, personally I find great pleasure in singing that very word.

Please show us, myself and the concerned readers, the word CALVARY in any of your beloved modern versions.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

olegig, Enjoying the sensation of the word, Calvary, rolling off your tongue, does not render the King James superior to any other translation.

The English - Calvary, is translated from the original New Testament Biblical Greek as κρανιον, which means "cranium" = skull.

The English word, "Calvary," which appears in the King James and the New King James versions of the Bible, is derived from the anglicized form of the Latin: "Calvariæ," meaning the dome or roof of the skull, i.e., the skullcap, which was, in turn, derived from the Greek, kpaviov (cranium - skull).

The Latin translation, "Calvariae" meaning Cranium - skull, appeared in the Latin Vulgate, which is the late 4th-century Latin translation of the Bible primarily translated by Jerome for the church of Rome in 382 A.D.

The Vulgate became the Catholic Church's official Latin version of the Bible, and is still presently used in the Latin (Roman) Church.

Calvary (Calvariæ), refers to Golgotha in Luke 23:33, where the biblical Greek text gives Κρανίον (skull) rather than the explicit Κρανίου Τόπος (place of the skull) of Matthew 27:33, Mark 15:22 and John 19:17.

Matthew 27:33-34 King James Version (KJV).
33 "And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,
34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink."

Mark 15:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 "And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.
23 And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not."

John 19:17-19 New International Version (NIV).
17 "Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha).
18 There they crucified him, and with him two others —one on each side and Jesus in the middle.
19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: 'jesus of nazareth, the king of the jews.'"

https://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Calvary.html

The name Calvary: Summary

Meaning: Skull

Etymology: From the Latin noun calvaria, cranium, meaning skull.

The English name "Calvary" appears only in Luke 23:33, in the KJV and the NKJV of the Bible, rather than the Latin name Calvaria, which was used as a translation of the Greek word Kranion , by which the Hebrew word Gulgoleth was interpreted as "the place of a skull."

It took this name from its shape, being a hillock or low, rounded, bare elevation somewhat in the form of a human skull.

Cross References

Matthew 27:33
And when they came to a place called Golgotha, which means The Place of the Skull,

Mark 15:22
They brought Jesus to a place called Golgotha, which means The Place of the Skull.

John 19:17
Carrying His own cross, He went out to The Place of the Skull, which in Hebrew is called Golgotha.

Acts 2:23
He was delivered up by God's set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.

It is nowhere in Scripture called a "hill," - i.e., " the hill of calvary"(?)
The crucifixion of our Lord took place outside the city walls ( Hebrews 13:11-13 ) and near the public thoroughfare.

As Paul said to Festus and Agrippa, "... this thing was not done in a corner" (Acts 26:26).
"This thing was not done in a corner."

These dictionary topics are from
M.G. Easton M.A., D.D., Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Third Edition,
published by Thomas Nelson, 1897. Public Domain, copy freely.


John (19:20) describes the crucifixion site as being "near the city". According to Hebrews (Hebrews 13:12), it was "outside the city gate." Matthew 27:39 and Mark 15:29 both record the location would have been accessible to "passers-by."

Locating the crucifixion site, therefore, involves identifying a site that, in the city of Jerusalem some four decades before its destruction in AD 70, would have been outside a major gate near enough to the city that the passers-by could not only see him, but also read the inscription 'Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews'.

Since the fourth century, Christian tradition has taught that this location is now located within the enormous sprawling Church of the Holy Sepulcher, which now places it well within the present existing walls of Jerusalem, surrounding the Old City, which were rebuilt in the 16th century by the Ottoman Empire.

The 1st century site of the present church was outside the city walls at the time of the crucifixion.

Calvary is now protected by a surrounding wall, and visible to tourists only through a glass window. This was done to protect the historical site from being gradually chipped away by thousands of visiting devout pilgrims who wished to take a piece of the rock of Calvary home with them.

Below is a photo I snapped during a visit there during the 90's.

The rock of Calvary in Jerusalem today.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Neither do I, but I just wanted the reader to know you would most likely enjoy its removal from all hymns protecting you from pain when sung.

To the casual Bible student who takes the time to study and compare versions the superiority of the KJB is easily first realized by the complete inferiority of all others. And then after total belief in the words of the KJB and a bit of scriptural revelation, one realizes when they are reading the word of God in the KJB, they truly are handling the Word .

I'm always quite impressed by your replies, your in depth writings, your dazzle of scholarship, and no doubt the time it takes for you to research and look-up your words. Me, I just speak from the heart as in a physical setting.

Now, if you would, spend some of that scholarly time in explaining why your beloved NIV (as well as most other modern versions) disagrees with itself at Num 14:30 and Heb 3:16. And perhaps you might show us why God might be pleased with that writing.
Then perhaps you would take a deep breath and explain why contributing John 14 as Jesus revealing the Rapture of the Church does not make Paul a liar when he said he was the first to reveal same.

Celina Loc: New York Springfield Gardens

Amen!

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Oleg,

The two "gospel " references over which you are obsessing were quotes from early Christian leaders who believed the Rapture would precede the Second Coming as a separate event, which was the reason for including them, which you would know had you read the post closely.

In my OPP posts, there is an entry made two or more years ago about the meaning of Jesus' words that you classify as a 2nd rapture. If seeking understanding, look them up.

You are free to believe whatever you like about any Bible version, as are we all.

Neither the King James or the New International Version are my 1st choice for study.

Jesus said His sheep would know His voice. Below are the versions of the Bible His sheep are buying in order to listen to His voice. (John 10:4-5)

There is a lot of stability in the preference of Bible translations that are being purchased by Christian believers. This data is from the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association as of January 2020. For comparison, the numbers in parentheses represent the rankings as they were in 2011, showing little change.

1. New International Version (NIV) (1)
2. King James Version (KJV) (2)
3. New Living Translation (NLT) (4)
4. English Standard Version (ESV) (5)
5. New King James Version (NKJV) (3)
6. Christian Standard Bible (CSB) (6)
7. Reina Valera (RV) (not ranked)
8. New International Reader’s Version (NIrV) (9)
9. The Message (Message) (8)
10. New American Standard Bible (NASB) (7)

No Christian feels pain when listening to hymns of praise. To insinuate such a thing is not even to SNL standards.

To obsess about other Christian OPP member's feelings, beliefs or behavior to the presumed audience with which you are so obsessed is childish behavior, and your audience, if any, Jesus said would be your sole reward, to expect none from His Father in Heaven.

Matthew 6:1
"Be careful not to perform your righteous acts before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

Nowhere does the Bible proclaim that the mysteries Paul revealed in his epistles were being revealed for the very First Time to the exclusion of God, Jesus or other prophets or apostles having already touched upon them, as they are progressively revealed, and certainly not "written in stone" as you insist as your article of faith.

The word "mystery" as it occurs in ancient Greek and Semitic sources. as well as in the New Testament, refers to a secret which is only revealed to those who believe in and worship God. In the NT it is God who reveals the mystery emphasizing His grace, and faithful believers who perceive it.

There is a stark contrast between the biblical use of the term "mystery" and its use as a technical term in ancient Hellenistic mystery religions. In these cults the term was used to signify the esoteric knowledge to which initiates were instructed, with threats of severe punishment, should they reveal them to the uninitiated.

The Mystery Religions functioned much as Freemasonry does today, with it's "secret oaths..." and they, in turn, are remindful of Fred Flintstone and the Water Buffaloes.

The Bible, however, emphasizes God's gracious willingness to reveal the mystery of his purposes to His servants the prophets and through them to all believers (Rev 10:7; Amos 3:7).

Similarly, Jesus graciously explains His parables to his disciples explaining that though the parables baffle those on the outside, the mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to them (Matthew 11:25-26).

In Paul's letters this aspect of the mystery of God is again, highlighted. Paul points his readers again and again to the unique position they occupy as those who have experienced the fulfillment of the mystery of God's purposes. Although predicted in the Scriptures, the details of God's mercy remained mysteries for long ages (Rom 16:25-26), hidden for generations past (Col 1:26 ; Ephesians 3:5, Ephesians 3:9, Ephesians 3:11) that it might be revealed to prophets (OT) and to apostles (NT) and through them to believers in God.

(Ephesians 3:1-12; 1 Peter 1:10-12). Paul describes his calling to reveal the mysteries of God to the Gentiles as "the grace of God given to me for you" Ephesians 3:2).

The biblical idea of mystery reminds Christians that God holds the course of human events in his hands and has shaped them to work for the salvation of His people, demonstrating His graciousness.

"Just talking off the top of your head," as you say you are doing, as though this is a grand scheme of God-given ministry, as you proceed to invent for your projected audience what others think, feel and believe about the singing of hymns, instead of providing actual helpful Biblical information regarding God's Word, His love and providence, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is your choice.

The Workman of whom God Approves - 2nd Timothy 2:14 - 16:

14 "Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words, which succeeds only in leading the listeners to ruin.
15 Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth.
16 But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness."

If you see Biblical contradictions, explain them, with references from respected Church leaders and authors as validation.

"For in this case the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true.
I sent you to reap what you have not worked for; others have done the hard work, and now you have taken up their labor.” (John 4:37-38).

This is made true whenever anyone picks up a Strong's Concordance, over which James Strong labored His entire life, so that the Christians who would follow him would not each have to replicate his work, but would benefit from it.

We are each entered into the labor of those Christians who have preceded us.

olegig Loc: Texas panhandle

Zemirah "Nowhere does the Bible proclaim that the mysteries Paul revealed in his epistles were being revealed for the very First Time to the exclusion of God, Jesus or other prophets or apostles having already touched upon them, as they are progressively revealed, and certainly not "written in stone" as you insist as your article of faith."
I am not asking for a long-winded explanation of a mystery, the definition of a mystery given by the Lord Jesus Christ through Paul is quite sufficient for His use of the term. If you wish to exclude the writings of Paul from the thoughts of God and Jesus, that's your business; but not I.

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1 Corinthians 2:7 KJV

Once again I ask you to zero in on this one and only mystery found in 1 Cor 15.
Then perhaps you would take a deep breath and explain why contributing John 14 as Jesus revealing the Rapture of the Church does not make Paul a liar when he said he was the first to reveal same.
And then perhaps you might address the Num 14:30 vs Heb 3:16 issue.

If you need help in the above please feel free to consult those scholars who are your trainers.

Zemirah "If you see Biblical contradictions, explain them, with references from respected Church leaders and authors as validation."
Although many have been presented by you, this one of your simplest and most outlandish examples of your condescension.
You sir along with any respected Church leader or validated author are not and never will be my nor the readers priest.
I am quoting from one of the most famous authors on record the Word of God! If you have a problem with validation, your argument is with Him, not me.
Your assumptions are overwhelming of me, your dressing downs are numerous. I am only and simply quoting the words of the KJB, either pronounce it a fake or address it's doctrines.
How about this one:
The most famous statement that Tyndale made about Bible translation, next to his dying prayer that God would open the king of England’s eyes, is a comment that he made about wanting the plowboy to know the Bible better than the Catholic priests.