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The Center of the Impeachement inquiry, you decide Should Trump Be impeached for this:
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Nov 7, 2019 17:29:49   #
Tug484
 
woodguru wrote:
Actually there seems to be solid evidence that the whole and real call has been buried in a super secret server, how about if we go ahead and look at the real and complete memos? One of the people who heard the call firsthand objected to the deletions that had been made.


I saw nothing that warrants impeachment.
What I do see is they've wanted him impeached since he got elected.
I'm thankful we don't have president H. or first boy Slick Willie!

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Nov 7, 2019 18:12:41   #
debeda
 
Tug484 wrote:
Their lies are so thick and many, you couldn't knock a ghost through them.


Good one!! And YEP

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Nov 7, 2019 18:14:30   #
debeda
 
woodguru wrote:
Wherever it is you have your head buried it's time to get a firm grip and pull it out. Look around... there is so much more than what's covered in the phone call going on that it is as irrelevant as who the whistleblower is.

There were months of events going on that portray a picture of Giuliani mucking about unofficially in state's business. This was not done through official channels, and trump's personal attorney had no official reason to be there in the first place.

The phone call is what many other things spun out of in order to understand what was being talked about, but it is other testimonies and pieces of real evidence such as emails and texts that fill in the blanks.

No trump is not being impeached for the phone call, he is being impeached for using his personal attorney to conduct official state's business as an unofficial representative working outside of normal channels. Real business such as the white house maintains was taking place should have been being done by real officials working in official channels.

Trump was pressuring the Ukraine for his own purposes with military aid that was not his to bargain with. He likely did this at the wishes of Putin, because I'm sure Putin had a problem with the US giving the Ukraine anti tank weapons that would have decimated Russian tanks when they conducted an attack by Russia that was not supposed to be happening as far as the rest of the world and the US was concerned.
Wherever it is you have your head buried it's time... (show quote)


So Biden truly pressuring Ukraine (and bragging about it on TV) for the interests of his son is A-okay with you tho, right. Your hypocrisy truly knows no bounds

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Nov 7, 2019 18:16:05   #
debeda
 
Tug484 wrote:
I saw nothing that warrants impeachment.
What I do see is they've been wanting him impeached since he was elected.
I'm thankful we don't have president H. and first boy, Slick Willie.



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Nov 7, 2019 18:46:26   #
waltmoreno
 
woodguru wrote:
There is significant testimony that indicates the Ukraine wanted no part in announcing what trump wanted, that they wanted to stay away from interfering in US political races.

So you conveniently won't be paying attention to anything that comes out, you've made up your mind and nothing else matters. Get used to this, because it will be going on right up to the week before the election as new evidence emerges. Sort of like Hillary and the endless Benghazi and email server investigations, wouldn't you say?
There is significant testimony that indicates the ... (show quote)


What's clear to me is that the Dims have engaged in relentless, non-stop attacks on Trump even before he was sworn in. These attacks wear ME out! This time it's because of some conversation with Ukraine's president, Zelensky where there was a so called quid pro quo. Which is totally denied by the Zelensky. And he didn't even know that aid had been withheld AND DIDN'T DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT to get the aid. I've read the transcript and it seems perfectly reasonable to me. As someone who didn't even support Trump, the effect of these constant, never ending attacks has made me become an ardent Trump supporter. The guy just keeps soldiering on. And getting so many good things done.
If you expect middle America to pay attention to these stupid hearings you're sadly mistaken. GetTrump fatigue has set in with middle America. It reminds me of when we already had 99% of the Mueller report but the Dems needed those last few redacted words to nail Trump. And after getting them, the Dims then needed Mueller himself to testify. We all know how that worked out.
Considering that the Dims overlook mountains of clear, indefensibly, undeniable evidence of outright felonious conduct by Trump's predecessor who weaponized the entire intelligence community against Trump, it's hard to pay attention to this sham. Talk about a double standard.
I won't be watching the hearings. I'll let you breathlessly report each day's developments.
I'll probably be watching Trump rallies instead. I'd rather feel good and uplifted, instead of angry and resentful.

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Nov 7, 2019 18:47:38   #
debeda
 
waltmoreno wrote:
What's clear to me is that the Dims have engaged in relentless, non-stop attacks on Trump even before he was sworn in. These attacks wear ME out! This time it's because of some conversation with Ukraine's president, Zelensky where there was a so called quid pro quo. Which is totally denied by the Zelensky. And he didn't even know that aid had been withheld AND DIDN'T DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT to get the aid. I've read the transcript and it seems perfectly reasonable to me. As someone who didn't even support Trump, the effect of these constant, never ending attacks has made me become an ardent Trump supporter. The guy just keeps soldiering on. And getting so many good things done.
If you expect middle America to pay attention to these stupid hearings you're sadly mistaken. GetTrump fatigue has set in with middle America. It reminds me of when we already had 99% of the Mueller report but the Dems needed those last few redacted words to nail Trump. And after getting them, the Dims then needed Mueller himself to testify. We all know how that worked out.
Considering that the Dims overlook mountains of clear, indefensibly, undeniable evidence of outright felonious conduct by Trump's predecessor who weaponized the entire intelligence community against Trump, it's hard to pay attention to this sham. Talk about a double standard.
I won't be watching the hearings. I'll let you breathlessly report each day's developments.
I'll probably be watching Trump rallies instead. I'd rather feel good and uplifted, instead of angry and resentful.
What's clear to me is that the Dims have engaged i... (show quote)



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Nov 7, 2019 18:51:31   #
Tug484
 
debeda wrote:
Good one!! And YEP



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Nov 7, 2019 20:15:38   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
marinevet73 wrote:
I think it must be my eyes that are failing me. Could you please read for me lines 4 and 5 of the title of your 'transcript". And it could be that my mind is failing a little. Could you please look up the definition of memorandum in your Funk and Wagnell ( that is a dictionary) and explain to me the meaning of "memorandum".

Also, you should know that there are some pretty good reading comprehension courses available online. You might even get some credits towards your GED.

Thank you for your gracious assistance in advance.
I think it must be my eyes that are failing me. C... (show quote)


tran·script
/ˈtran(t)skript/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a written or printed version of material originally presented in another medium.

mem·o·ran·dum
/ˌmeməˈrandəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a written message in business or diplomacy.

Here are the two definitions of the words in question. Therefore in this case Transcript and Memorandum by definition can be use synonymously.

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Nov 7, 2019 20:34:40   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
woodguru wrote:


No trump is not being impeached for the phone call, he is being impeached for using his personal attorney to conduct official state's business as an unofficial representative working outside of normal channels. Real business such as the white house maintains was taking place should have been being done by real officials working in official channels.



You think President Trump, President of the United States, cannot use his personal attorney to investigate?

Let me present to you Article II of the United States Constitution:


Section 1. 1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the
Vice-President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows.

2. Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives
to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall
be appointed an Elector.

3. (The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with
themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit
sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the
Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be
the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an
equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then
from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the
Representation from each State have one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of
all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors
shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.) (Note:
Superseded by the Twelfth Amendment.)

4. The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the
United States.

5. No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of
President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident
within the United States.

6. In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the same
shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law, provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and
Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be
elected. (Note: Changed by the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.)

7. The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he
shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

8. Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation: —“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the
Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Section 2.1 The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual
Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to
the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of
Impeachment.


2. He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall
nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court,
and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress
may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.


3. The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of
their next Session.


Section 3.He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with
Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he
shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.


Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or
other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.


Therefore the President is complying with the constitution Section 2.2 and Section 3.

Do you not know what powers is in vested in the President? Pity.

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Nov 7, 2019 20:52:52   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
PeterS wrote:
I know I'm smooth. That's because I'm not playing the role of apologist. Listen to the events of next week. That's all I ask. Taylor, Vindman, and others will explain why Trump is being impeached.


I posted the Article II powers and nothing in the transcript violates the constitution. Also, the hearsay evidence of the diplomats gossiping is no evidence that can be used in Section 4."The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

First there is no Quid Pro Quo, therefore no Bribery. There is no Treason here, which is obvious. Now the argument remains, "High Crimes and Misdemeanors".

According to Article two powers, The president of the United States is in command of the DOJ, and by delegation he can "deputize" any citizen, for any commission. Therefore Rudy's involvement is justified. So if asking the foreign leader for assistance in an investigation, regardless if it is a political opponent or not, for political opponents are not above the law, is justified.

The President has this power it was posted in the Article II powers. Congress does have the right to limit that power however, to prevent tyranny. But that doesn't apply here either. The President has the right to commission any agent to speak for him. In this case Rudy. But not only was Rudy chose, so was AG Barr. Therefore, The president was well within his right.

1. by the Constitution the claim of investigating a political opponent falls apart.
2. by the Constitution the appointment of Rudy, a private attorney for the President falls apart.

So what else do you have? What else could the Congress have? If you look at the Department that includes the Diplomats, which according to Article II powers, the president can remove them at any time for any reason. So, the Democrats argument falls apart.

So it would be prudent for the House of Representatives to drop this impeachment thing..........................Wasn't that what was said to me on this website in 2014 when I charged Obama with Treason?...................hmmm one has to wonder....

See Democrats don't know when to throw in the towel. Conservatives pray to God. And when God is invoked, the hypocracy comes to light. That is very interesting.....Let me remind you of 2014 on this website, "Topic: Praying for America: Through a Psalm of David" was born because of President Obama's impeachable offenses. It is amazing that the Democrats don't follow my lead, if they truly believe Trump is Guilty. Pathetic.

Donald Trump was the only 2016 presidential candidate that could stand up to the Almighty Left Extreme Democrats. He has not only weathered their attacks but has accomplished so much good for the country it is unbelievable. But like the Son of God, Jesus; Donald Trump is being wrongfully accused and is being politically crucified. How many innocent men will suffer at the hands of evil-doers?

We should be fighting the Cartels in Mexico, instead of unlawfully prosecuting a President. That is my opinion! I'm sorry, people are dying at the hands of an in acting government of the United States and I'm sick of it.

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Nov 7, 2019 22:32:19   #
Mikeyavelli
 
PeterS wrote:
That is the heart of the matter. There is witness after witness stacked up to testify that Trump initiated a quid-pro-quo and wasn't going to release the aid to Ukraine until President Z announced publically that they were starting an investigation into the Bidens--the same Bidens that Trump said Z should investigate in the transcript that you shared.

And by the way, telling a foreign power to investigate one of your political enemies isn't thought of too highly in impeachment circles. But hey, we all know you don't care about that "heart of the matter" do you.

Read the transcript--but while you do it why don't you try comprehending what the president is saying and whether there are any irregularities in what he asked? If you can't see any then there really isn't any need for a conversation is there--your mind is made up and you see only what you want to see.

Listen to the testimony next week. You guys have been screaming for it so now you have gotten your wish! We'll talk then as THIS phone call will be long forgotten as the gravity of the situation starts sinking in...
That is the heart of the matter. There is witness ... (show quote)


Foreign policy conducted by the president of the United States is completely legal.
There is no legitimacy to this impeachment process.
This is an excuse for a coup.
And the sad truth is that everyone in Washington DC is aware that it's a coup that needs to find legitimacy to succeed, even if they have to manufacture legitimacy. Save for a few loyalists, most of Washington DC is complicit in this coup, if only by doing nothing to stop it.

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Nov 7, 2019 22:38:53   #
Tug484
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
Foreign policy conducted by the president of the United States is completely legal.
There is no legitimacy to this impeachment process.
This is an excuse for a coup.
And the sad truth is that everyone in Washington DC is aware that it's a coup that needs to find legitimacy to succeed, even if they have to manufacture legitimacy. Save for a few loyalists, most of Washington DC is complicit in this coup, if only by doing nothing to stop it.



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Nov 7, 2019 23:18:33   #
debeda
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
Foreign policy conducted by the president of the United States is completely legal.
There is no legitimacy to this impeachment process.
This is an excuse for a coup.
And the sad truth is that everyone in Washington DC is aware that it's a coup that needs to find legitimacy to succeed, even if they have to manufacture legitimacy. Save for a few loyalists, most of Washington DC is complicit in this coup, if only by doing nothing to stop it.


Plain TRUTH

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Nov 8, 2019 00:25:15   #
marinevet73
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
Foreign policy conducted by the president of the United States is completely legal.
There is no legitimacy to this impeachment process.
This is an excuse for a coup.
And the sad truth is that everyone in Washington DC is aware that it's a coup that needs to find legitimacy to succeed, even if they have to manufacture legitimacy. Save for a few loyalists, most of Washington DC is complicit in this coup, if only by doing nothing to stop it.


Asking a foreign government to interfere in a US election is not a foreign affair, it's not a foreign policy. IT IS ILLEGAL and one of the very reasons that the concept of impeachment was put in the constitution. If I remember correctly, it was Hamilton who used this very as the basis for impeachment.

Call it a coup if you want to, but it is the reason the founding fathers have us the basis for this coup. It is fundamental to our democracy.

I do have my issues with the founding fathers, but some of their ideas were pretty damn good. So, yeah, I think you're right. All of Washington DC, going back before Washington DC even existed, is for this impeachment. And Trump is the one who manufactured it.

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Nov 8, 2019 00:29:51   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
Foreign policy conducted by the president of the United States is completely legal.
There is no legitimacy to this impeachment process.
This is an excuse for a coup.
And the sad truth is that everyone in Washington DC is aware that it's a coup that needs to find legitimacy to succeed, even if they have to manufacture legitimacy. Save for a few loyalists, most of Washington DC is complicit in this coup, if only by doing nothing to stop it.


Great Post!

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