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Assisted suicide Yay or Nay?
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Sep 11, 2019 16:07:55   #
badbobby (a regular here)
 
Tug484 wrote:
There are some states were drs. have the final say.
Texas is one state that can pull the plug on a life.


Texas lawmakers have grappled year after year over whether families or medical professionals should make the final decision on when to end a terminally ill patient’s life-sustaining care. This year, they seem closer to a compromise.
“If we were only making decisions based on medical facts, everything would be straightforward,” said Dr. Leigh Fredholm, the medical director of Seton Palliative Care at the University Medical Center Brackenridge in Austin. “But that’s not how we make decisions.”
State law allows physicians to discontinue treatment they deem medically futile. If a physician’s decision to end treatment contradicts the patient’s advanced directive or the judgment of the patient’s surrogates, state law gives patients or their families 10 days to find an alternative provider and appeal the physician’s decision to a hospital ethics committee.
Advocacy groups that identify as “pro-life” say existing law does not go far enough to protect the interests of patients or their families. But they are divided on how legislators should reform it. While support in the Legislature’s upper chamber seems to be coalescing around Senate Bill 303, which would tweak the existing process, some endorse bills that would prohibit physicians or hospital ethics committees from making the final decision to end treatment.

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Sep 11, 2019 16:16:19   #
Tug484 (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
Texas lawmakers have grappled year after year over whether families or medical professionals should make the final decision on when to end a terminally ill patient’s life-sustaining care. This year, they seem closer to a compromise.
“If we were only making decisions based on medical facts, everything would be straightforward,” said Dr. Leigh Fredholm, the medical director of Seton Palliative Care at the University Medical Center Brackenridge in Austin. “But that’s not how we make decisions.”
State law allows physicians to discontinue treatment they deem medically futile. If a physician’s decision to end treatment contradicts the patient’s advanced directive or the judgment of the patient’s surrogates, state law gives patients or their families 10 days to find an alternative provider and appeal the physician’s decision to a hospital ethics committee.
Advocacy groups that identify as “pro-life” say existing law does not go far enough to protect the interests of patients or their families. But they are divided on how legislators should reform it. While support in the Legislature’s upper chamber seems to be coalescing around Senate Bill 303, which would tweak the existing process, some endorse bills that would prohibit physicians or hospital ethics committees from making the final decision to end treatment.
Texas lawmakers have grappled year after year over... (show quote)

We had this discussion when they pulled the plug on that woman in Florida.
The news said in Texas families here have no rights. If the Dr. says pull the plug, that's it.
What you're telling me sounds more humane.

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Sep 11, 2019 16:35:40   #
badbobby (a regular here)
 
Tug484 wrote:
We had this discussion when they pulled the plug on that woman in Florida.
The news said in Texas families here have no rights. If the Dr. says pull the plug, that's it.
What you're telling me sounds more humane.


If the doctor feels that further attempts to cure or ease the patients problem is useless,
He should confer with the patients family or representative
and they should make the decision to either prolong the treatment or'pull the plug'
my family will not have to make such a decision
my living will says'pull the plug'

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Sep 11, 2019 16:44:22   #
kemmer (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:

my living will says'pull the plug'

Mine too.

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Sep 11, 2019 17:26:29   #
Tug484 (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
If the doctor feels that further attempts to cure or ease the patients problem is useless,
He should confer with the patients family or representative
and they should make the decision to either prolong the treatment or'pull the plug'
my family will not have to make such a decision
my living will says'pull the plug'


We've had a couple in my family that wanted the same.
I have one son that says don't and one son that said if he can't work or fish, pull it.

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Sep 11, 2019 17:28:22   #
Tug484 (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
If the doctor feels that further attempts to cure or ease the patients problem is useless,
He should confer with the patients family or representative
and they should make the decision to either prolong the treatment or'pull the plug'
my family will not have to make such a decision
my living will says'pull the plug'

We had a couple in my family that said pull it.

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Sep 12, 2019 04:35:13   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Tug484 wrote:
There are some states were drs. have the final say.
Texas is one state that can pull the plug on a life.


There was no plug to pull with Duwis. Nor was he in a vegetative state. He was planning on driving a jag 100 mph on his birthday. Many in the Jaguar company were helping him plan it. A track had already been booked. He was alert and in overall pretty good health but needing a certain amount of medical drug support which was denied. He was well enough that he went on the grueling Jaguar US rally in 2018 as he did every year, though he had quit driving his own jag in the rally but went as a passenger.

This is different than the situation you describe. Denying medical care because someone is elderly or disabled is just the start of going down the path the NAZIs took. Who is next? Those with Downs Syndrome? How about autism? How about severe allergies? How about being gay?

And note I said denying, I did not say not providing. He could pay for his medical needs. But even when someone can pay, waiting lists and priorities still apply. Under universal health care, the doctors and hospitals must all follow the dictates of the government.

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Sep 12, 2019 04:40:02   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
Texas lawmakers have grappled year after year over whether families or medical professionals should make the final decision on when to end a terminally ill patient’s life-sustaining care. This year, they seem closer to a compromise.
“If we were only making decisions based on medical facts, everything would be straightforward,” said Dr. Leigh Fredholm, the medical director of Seton Palliative Care at the University Medical Center Brackenridge in Austin. “But that’s not how we make decisions.”
State law allows physicians to discontinue treatment they deem medically futile. If a physician’s decision to end treatment contradicts the patient’s advanced directive or the judgment of the patient’s surrogates, state law gives patients or their families 10 days to find an alternative provider and appeal the physician’s decision to a hospital ethics committee.
Advocacy groups that identify as “pro-life” say existing law does not go far enough to protect the interests of patients or their families. But they are divided on how legislators should reform it. While support in the Legislature’s upper chamber seems to be coalescing around Senate Bill 303, which would tweak the existing process, some endorse bills that would prohibit physicians or hospital ethics committees from making the final decision to end treatment.
Texas lawmakers have grappled year after year over... (show quote)


All of the cases which have been front page news has involved not ending life support but rather in taking away food and water until death occurs. Even criminals getting the death penalty are not killed by denying food and water.

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Sep 12, 2019 04:46:18   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
If the doctor feels that further attempts to cure or ease the patients problem is useless,
He should confer with the patients family or representative
and they should make the decision to either prolong the treatment or'pull the plug'
my family will not have to make such a decision
my living will says'pull the plug'


Does your living will say stop giving you food and water? When someone is diagnosed as in vegetative state, it doesn't mean they can't be aware or feel. It means they can't communicate. When a patient in a vegetative state has tears well up when told he will not be allowed food and water, that person is killed in a cruel way. Have you ever gone hungry for weeks?

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Sep 12, 2019 04:57:38   #
Tug484 (a regular here)
 
JoyV wrote:
There was no plug to pull with Duwis. Nor was he in a vegetative state. He was planning on driving a jag 100 mph on his birthday. Many in the Jaguar company were helping him plan it. A track had already been booked. He was alert and in overall pretty good health but needing a certain amount of medical drug support which was denied. He was well enough that he went on the grueling Jaguar US rally in 2018 as he did every year, though he had quit driving his own jag in the rally but went as a passenger.

This is different than the situation you describe. Denying medical care because someone is elderly or disabled is just the start of going down the path the NAZIs took. Who is next? Those with Downs Syndrome? How about autism? How about severe allergies? How about being gay?

And note I said denying, I did not say not providing. He could pay for his medical needs. But even when someone can pay, waiting lists and priorities still apply. Under universal health care, the doctors and hospitals must all follow the dictates of the government.
There was no plug to pull with Duwis. Nor was he ... (show quote)


That's really sad.

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Sep 12, 2019 05:09:59   #
Pennylynn (a regular here)
 
JoyV wrote:
Does your living will say stop giving you food and water? When someone is diagnosed as in vegetative state, it doesn't mean they can't be aware or feel. It means they can't communicate. When a patient in a vegetative state has tears well up when told he will not be allowed food and water, that person is killed in a cruel way. Have you ever gone hungry for weeks?


I recall the case you may have in mind. The woman's family was ready and able to care for her, but her husband wanted her dead. She was not completely braindead, as evidenced by her reaction to family. She smiled, and with help could stand and walk. She was not on machines but needed a feeding tube. It took her 10 days to die. And all because the husband wanted her dead so he could remarry.

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Sep 12, 2019 10:08:37   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Pennylynn wrote:
I recall the case you may have in mind. The woman's family was ready and able to care for her, but her husband wanted her dead. She was not completely braindead, as evidenced by her reaction to family. She smiled, and with help could stand and walk. She was not on machines but needed a feeding tube. It took her 10 days to die. And all because the husband wanted her dead so he could remarry.


Yup. That was one of the cases I remember. According to the medical profession, she qualified as being in a vegetative state. Another case was a young man in either France or England who the state ruled should be terminated. They called it being removed from life support, but he wasn't on any support but because he couldn't swallow, had a feeding tube. The family wanted to take him home and care for him themselves but were denied. When the boy's mother told him what the court decision was, tears welled out of his eyes. I think he took nearly 3 weeks to die.

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Sep 12, 2019 13:21:44   #
badbobby (a regular here)
 
JoyV wrote:
Does your living will say stop giving you food and water? When someone is diagnosed as in vegetative state, it doesn't mean they can't be aware or feel. It means they can't communicate. When a patient in a vegetative state has tears well up when told he will not be allowed food and water, that person is killed in a cruel way. Have you ever gone hungry for weeks?

no, it just says when there is no hope to remove me from any machine keeping me alive

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Sep 12, 2019 17:00:09   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
no, it just says when there is no hope to remove me from any machine keeping me alive


Then it's not the same thing as any of the examples given. There was no machine keeping any of them alive. All but Dewis were denied food and water until they died. He was denied emergency medical aid.

I have no problem with someone making such a choice as yours. In fact this was the case with my sister a couple of years ago. While she was uncommunicative for days and the doctors wanted to do one surgery or procedure after another which would provide at most a matter of months more of life, she had left me with a medical power of attorney and instructions on her wishes. I put her on hospice so her last days could be as comfortable as possible. She lived a few weeks and died in her sleep. She was not denied comfort care and was NOT denied food and water.

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