rumitoid

Revelation, the last book of the Bible, is highly controversial. Arguments about the nature of the Tribulation--pre-, mid-, or post-, have divided Christians for centuries. Though that is not all the controversy surrounding Revelation, millions of Believers are at odds and preoccupied with it. A wound to the Church and our witness.

Millions more spend wasted time looking for signs and pointing fingers at their perceived "minions of Satan" and evidence of the Final Days. Obama. Democrats. A******nist. Republicans. Trump. And so on.

The threat in the apocalyptic dream had no prophetic message. It was just the outrage of a Jew against the shock of Rome's destruction of the Temple, and what by faith he felt God would do to retaliate. Just an encouragement, not a vision.

The John of Revelation is not the John of the Gospels. That is impossible. The John of Revelation said things against the ideas of John in the Gospels. The author of Revelation was like an activist crusading for traditional values. In his case, he was a devout Jew who saw Jesus as the messiah. But he didn’t like the message that the apostle Paul and other followers of Jesus were preaching.

This new message insisted that gentiles could become followers of Jesus without adopting the requirements of the Torah. It accepted women leaders, and intermarriage with gentiles, Pagels says.

The new message was a lot like what we call Christianity today.

That was too much for the author of Revelation. At one point, he calls a woman leader in an early church community a “Jezebel.” He calls one of those gentile-accepting churches a “synagogue of Satan.”

John was defending a form of Christianity that would be eclipsed by the Christians he attacked, Pagels says.

“What John of Patmos preached would have looked old-fashioned – and simply wrong to Paul’s converts…,”

Just know for certain that Revelation has zero, nada, nothing, naught to do with the End Times.

And this is not taking into account the Roman record that was very exacting about anything sent to the island of Patmos in 94 AD. It was a rye shipment that went bad. That produced LSD. I do not believe that story for a second.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Fascinating...

rumitoid

Yes, very, but few here will think so.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Are you on a crusade to totally confuse the Christian faith and further destroy the t***h?

The book of Daniel unlocks the mysteries of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. No serious student of the Bible could possibly miss the fundamental importance of the prophesies of Daniel as they reveal the Revelation. Have you studied in depth those intimate prophetic connections?

Rose42

This post is rather bizarre. Again, all the scholars who have poured over the bible over the centuries all somehow missed what this woman didn’t. Its the most examined book in history. This is Tommy territory.

The Book of Revelation is the culmination of the prophecies about the end times, beginning with the Old Testament. The description of the antichrist mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is developed fully in chapter 13 of Revelation. Outside of Revelation, examples of apocalyptic literature in the Bible are Daniel chapters 7-12, Isaiah chapters 24-27, Ezekiel chapters 37-41, and Zechariah chapters 9-14. All these prophecies come together in the Book of Revelation.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Revelation.html

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Yes... Shocking that there is anything left to discover... Obviously after a century or two there would be no conflict in the faith...

History has proven otherwise...

And your swipe at Tommy is rather low and sad...



Isn't it nice when you can just google up answers that fIt your views

Pretty soon there will be no need to think at all..

Rose42

Tommy is a false teacher just as Elaine Pagels is. T***h is t***h. You should examine why you are so easily led astray. Its not because you think. You don’t know the basic tenets of Christianity.



That was lame. You’d have to actually put in some effort into reading and cross referencing. But you don’t. You’d also find no women theologians of note. That is biblical too.

Instead because you are not grounded in the word you are “...tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.” Eph 4:14

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Yes Yes... False teachers...
Yes Yes... I don't know the basics...
Yes Yes... I have been led astray...

Of course you can't prove Tommy is a false teacher... Which must rankle something fierce

And the fact that I am well aware of the basics makes that point absurd as well...

And who has led me astray? Would I not first have to follow someone to be led astray?



Totally lame...

You'd be surprised how much time I put into research and referencing the arguments presented on the OPP...

Your comment concerning women is bizarre..



Hell of a ride...

Rose42

Yes thats correct.



Not at all. Others have done it and done it quite well. No need to reinvent the wheel. You need to do some research yourself.



If you deny Christ as the only way to salvation for those who have knowledge of him no you aren’t well aware.



No. Believing fase doctrine is being led astray




Based on the content of your posts yes I would be.



Its nothing to be proud of or flip about.

rumitoid

I have, respectfully, no complaints with Daniel.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

That response could not be more vague.

rumitoid

Matthew holds two different prophecies, which many Christians do not distinguish. One is in their generation, the destruction of the Temple, for which Jesus provided signs, and the other is for his Return, for which there are no signs. See Mt. 24:4-34 and Mt. 24:35.

No time indicators would be given to signal his return. Rather, the judgment day would catch men unawares:
NOAH’S FLOOD: As the people of Noah’s day continued business as normal “until the day” the flood came, “so shall be the coming of the Son of man” (Mt. 24:38, 39).

O*******W OF SODDOM: The people of ancient Sodom were oblivious to the disaster that befell them until “the day that Lot went out from Sodom,” even so “after the same manner shall it be in the day that the Son of man is revealed” (Lk. 17:28-30).

LIKE A THIEF: Christ declared that he would come at an unexpected time, even as a thief does.

“If the master of the house had known in what watch the thief was coming he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken through. Therefore be ye also ready; for in an hour that ye think not the Son of man cometh” (43, 44; cf. 1 Thes. 5:2; 2 Pet. 3:10).

AN UNEXPECTED HOUR: The parable of the virgins in Matthew 25 surely teaches the lesson of constant pr********n, for the brideg***m will come at the most unexpected time [the midnight hour — a most surprising time for a wedding!].
One of your favs.

Forget wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and such.

Rose42

One also has to keep in mind the verses preceding v35 -

32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.



This is not saying we should forget what he told us about the signs. It just says we don't know the day or the hour. He had a purpose in telling us what the signs were. If he didn't want us to be mindful he'd not have included them.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Yeah, what was rumitoid thinking when he googled up some obscure commentary on Elaine Pagels' opinion of the book of Revelation. He offered no comments of his own, nor did he accredit his source. This casts a huge shadow over rumi's purpose in starting this thread.

He likes to stir s**t up and he thrives on the attention.

Rose42

Pagels thinks gospels were suppressed - even though they contradict the gospel according to Christ. She's more into Christ as a mystic and other new age 'stuff'.

She also thinks that belief in Jesus as God has been overemphasized in Christianity.