TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

It appears to me, you are projecting your sins on me, again.

In your interpretation of this sole passage, (which you somehow thinks adds to your credibility by quoting it from a number of different t***slations, as if that multiplies its importance), if your limited interpretation is true, then it condemns as sinful every non-biblical book ever written that is over some 10-12 pages in length.

The only qualifications you can provide, are those provided by your private interpretations according to your whim based on what you think is right or wrong.

And you say I have no common sense. But it gets worse. I gave you an opportunity to quote scripture that specified a number; and of course that is because we both know it isn’t there.

What is there is only your private interpretation. And then, in your world where you are the judge of all things biblically commanded, that private interpretation only applies to yours truly.

The Bible calls this “respect of persons” and it is a grievous sin against the second commandment!

“8However, if you fulfill the royal law, according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well. 9But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as t***sgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” James 2:8-10

So, in order to defend yourself against my words, you have resorted to committing the sin of respect of persons.

Do you still want to hold this as your best defense and accusation against me?

How is it not respect of persons? Do you hold your own treasured writers, who agree with your doctrine, to this same standard you are holding me to? Of course not. We have evidence in how a certain conversation went where you proved that you have respect of persons according to your own subjectivity:


May 11, 2019 16:34:11 #
Zemirah wrote: “He (Jon Gill) was a profound scholar and a prolific author (ie writer of lots of words).”
TommyRadd wrote:
“Well then, in your estimation and interpretation, he must have been a much bigger sinner than you accuse me of being!”


Zemirah wrote: “I see no comparison. He was the author of well researched, well documented, Academic, Theology books. You, sir, are no John Gill.”

What is the difference? Remember, the contention against me comes down to one thing: the quantity of words. I too have written well researched, well documented material, the only problem is, you don’t agree with it and won’t take the time to verify if I’ve misquoted anythying.

It is written:

“Differing weights and differing measures, both of them alike are an a*********n to Yahweh.” Proverbs 20:10

Why is it you have to resort to what God calls an a*********n (diverse measures between Mr. Gill and I) and what James calls committing a sin (the respect of Jon Gill’s person but not mine) in order to apply one sole scripture that you can use against my writings?

If that isn’t true, show me where you have, in the past, or those of your fellowship have in the past, applied the “oh you write too many words” accusation when they were writing in favor of and in defense of your beliefs?


It is written again:

“22You shall have one kind of law, for the foreigner as well as the native-born: for I am Yahweh your God.” Exodus 24:22

“But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who h**e you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you” Matthew 5:44

If I am your enemy, why do you not do good to me as Jesus commands? Why do you have one law for those of your fellowship and like-minded believers but a different law for those who are without your fellowship?

Once again, you need to repent and you owe me an apology.

If Proverbs 10:19 applies to me, according to your limited, private interpretation, how come you can’t demonstrate through scriptural quotes any other of the sins I’ve committed in my much writing, as I’m able to do against your writings? I’ve got news for you, writing against your traditions of men isn’t a sin, it is exemplified by Jesus in Mark 7 and Matthew 15, as I’ve quoted for you several times already, but you make a mockery of Jesus’ words.

If Proverbs 10:19 doesn’t actually instead apply to you, (in making up stuff about me and accusing me of nothing more than contending against your ideology), how is it every time you write you add to the sins you’ve already committed against me?

I tried to warn you before. Was that unloving of me?

Jesus said, “As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent.” Rev. 3:19

Was Jesus being unloving to the Pharisees when he rebuked them?

“You shall not h**e your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.” Lev. 19:17

Was Moses in error for believing rebuking a neighbor who is in sin was the opposite of hating him? Ever hear the saying, “friends don’t let friends drive drunk.” Would I be respecting you if I let you get in a driver’s seat, drunk? So which is unloving, withholding correction or taking the time to give correction?

Or the apostle Paul, was he unloving of Peter, his peer, when he had to rebuke him? “But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.” Gal. 2:11

I’ve rebuked you with the first commandment as quoted by Jesus many times, have you taken head?

“Don't reprove a scoffer, lest he h**e you. Reprove a wise man, and he will love you.” Proverbs 9:8

Where do you fit in this Proverb, the first part or the second? I bring to you scriptures, and all you and your peers have brought me are false and railing accusations which are also forbidden by scripture! Even angels aren’t that arrogant as you are (Jude 1:9)!

I have respectfully taken the time to show you, and in my estimation very briefly because there’s a whole lot more info where that come from, where the Trinity originated and how it came into nominal Christianity.

How is that in itself being disrespectful other than that you have not been taught it that way and you have traditions of men that make the word of God of no effect?

It is written again:

“Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1

Are you telling me that you are above being tempted by false teachers? That there is no way you were, or even could have been, converted by men of corrupt minds, destitute of the t***h?

“No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.” 1 Cor. 10:13.

Even Matthew 7:13 speaks against you:

“13Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. 14How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.” Matthew 7:13-14

How is it that verse doesn’t give you pause?

What if, and here’s what I am trying to tell you, you have been deceived after the same example of the devil in the garden? Are you so spiritual that you are above being tempted? Even Jesus was tempted.

“3But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:3.

What is the simplicity of Christ? Is it the complexity of the compound unity of the Trinity, that no Jew would have even been aware of, because it’s words and expression were hammered out in church councils, presided over by pagan emperors, hundreds of years after the apostles?

What signs did the apostles leave us to know who were being beguiled and who were not? The passage in 2 Corinthians goes on to say:

4For if he who comes preaches {openly proclaims} another Jesus, whom we did not preach {openly proclaim}, or if you receive a different spirit, which you did not receive, or a different "good news", which you did not accept, you put up with that well enough.” 2 Corinthians 11:4.

Okay, there’s a qualifier for us. The deceivers will be the ones who preach a different Jesus than the apostles openly proclaimed. From that, can you really not see why it is so critical to stick with the Jesus the apostles preached?

He said in another place:

“7and there isn't another "good news." Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Good News of Christ. 8But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any "good news" other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. 9As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any "good news" other than that which you received, let him be cursed. 10For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn't be a servant of Christ.” Gal. 1:7-10.

That’s pretty clear, isn’t it? It’s also extremely condemnatory.

Wouldn’t I be wrong in not pointing that to where it applies according to what it specifically and clearly says? Where did the apostles preach (openly proclaim) a “Trinity of persons in one essence in the godhead”? In light of Galatians 1:7-10 and 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, how is that not an extremely pertinent question? How would this not be a valid inquiry against the Trinity if it was added hundreds of years after the apostles?

Am I being unloving to you, or respectful to you, to point out what the Bible actually says? Or are you going to continue to contend, like cultists do, and you do after their works, that just questioning your sacred doctrine is in itself a sin? How can it be when all these verses say to try the spirits against what the Bible actually says?

It is written again:

“7For the overseer must be blameless... 9holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able to exhort in the sound doctrine, and to convict those who contradict him.

“1I command you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his Kingdom: 2preach the word; be urgent in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with all patience and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts;” 2 Timothy 4:1-3

“So then, have I become your enemy by telling you the t***h?” Galatians 4:16

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

More false accusations. More projections of what you are doing.


I have quoted you just some of the scriptures that teach us to stick to what the Bible says. You keep ignoring what i’ve said that what I do believe can be adequately summed up in verse like Acts 2:22-41 where the message of salvation was first laid out. This is where Peter used the keys to the kingdom that Christ had given to him:

“22"Men of Israel, hear these words! Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God{Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular} to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God{Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular } did by him in the midst of you, even as you yourselves know, 23him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God {Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular}, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and k**led; 24whom God {Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular} raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it.
25For David says concerning him, 'I saw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved.
26Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced. Moreover my flesh also will dwell in hope;
27because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your holy one {from Psalm 16:10= “a saint”} to see decay.
28You made known to me the ways of life. You will make me full of gladness with your presence.'
29"Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Messiah {See Heb. 4886 “mâshîyach... anointed; usually a consecrated human (as a king, priest, or saint”) (ie NEVER GOD)} to sit on his throne, 31he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was his soul left in Hades, nor did his flesh see decay. 32This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.
34For David didn't ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, 'The Lord {Yahweh Heb. 3068} said to my Lord {adon, Heb. 113, not Heb. 138, thus clearly NOT Yahweh in Psalm 110:1}, "Sit by my right hand,
35until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."' 36"Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all who are far off, even as many as the Lord our God will call to himself." 40With many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation!" 41Then those who gladly received his word were baptized. There were added that day about three thousand souls.” Acts 2:22-41

“Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.”1 Cor. 2:13

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

This, again, is a projection of you accusing me of what you are doing.

As I have previously demonstrated...

You make a mockery of the first commandment as qualified and explained by Jesus Christ.
“You worship what you do not know; We know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).
“..."Which commandment is the greatest of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one: 30you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment... 32The scribe said to him, "Truly, teacher, you have said well that he {first person singular present indicative} is one {“a cardinal numeral, one. Used: 1. universally, a. in opposed to many” -Thayer’s Greek Lexicon}, and there is none other but he {Genitive Masculine 3rd Person Singular}, 33and to love him {Accusative Masculine 3rd Person Singular} with all the heart, and with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God." No one dared ask him any question after that.” Mark 12:28-34

You make a mockery of the second commandment by your false accusations and respect of persons that you have committed against me in defense of your man-made idol.
“If a man says, "I love God," and h**es his brother, he is a liar; for he who doesn't love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?” 1 John 4:20
“8However, if you fulfill the royal law, according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well. 9But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as t***sgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” James 2:8-10


You make a mockery of Galatians 1:7-9
“7...there isn't another "good news." Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Good News of Christ. 8But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any "good news" other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. 9As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any "good news" other than that which you received, let him be cursed.” Galatians 1:7-9


You make a mockery of Jesus’ condemnation of the Pharisees for adding traditions of men:
"Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10For {Hebrews 2:18 says, “he himself has suffered being tempted}.' 11But you say, {“...Jesus...is fully man and fully God.”}, 13making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this." Mark 7:5-13

And again:


“5The Pharisees and the scribes asked him, "Why don't your disciples walk according to the tradition of the elders, but {“deny that the One God, throughout His Biblical message to mankind, is three personages in perfect unity within One Godhead, in one essence”}?" 6He answered them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8"For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men— {“three members of the Holy Trinity: God the Father, God the Son (the Lord Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit”}." 9He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10For Moses said, {“Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one (Deut 6:4) and “the LORD is God; there is no other besides Him {Noun - masculine singular construct | third person masculine singular} (Deut. 4:35) And {“God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them” (Genesis 1:27)”}.' 11But you say, {“You can deny that the One God, throughout His Biblical message to mankind, is three personages in perfect unity within One Godhead, in one essence, with one goal, but it will avail you nothing on earth and certainly not in heaven”};' 12then you no longer allow him to do {“Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one (Deut 6:4)”}, 13making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this." Mark 7:5-13 (see also Matthew 15:1-9)

And you make a mockery of 1 Timothy 1:3 and Proverbs 30:6
“...command certain men not to teach a different doctrine” 1 Timothy 1:3
"Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false." Proverbs 30:6

How is it, Zemirah, that you can’t keep from sinning against the scriptures on your plight to defend your extrabiblical, man-made idol?

It appears to me that every time you write, you show how truly Proverbs 10:19, for “In the multitude of {your extrabiblical} words {and false and railing accusations, and respect of persons} there is no lack of disobedience, but he who restrains his lips (and speaks as the oracle of God 1 Peter 4:11} does wisely.


“44You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the t***h, because there is no t***h in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and its father. 45But because I tell the t***h, you don't believe me. 46Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the t***h, why do you not believe me? 47He who is of God hears the words of God. For this cause you don't hear, because you are not of God." John 8:44-47

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

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The Candace Owens Show: Imam Mohamad Tawhidi
Candace OwensMay 26, 2019105.7k 1:01:11

Imam Mohamad Tawhidi from Australia and Candace Owens discuss the Muslim community, Christianity and whether Islam can be reformed. Can Muslims be reformed? Don’t miss this very important episode!

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Who told you this?

It is written:

“4"You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who h**e me,” Exodus 20:5

“14for you shall worship no other god: for Yahweh, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. 15"Don't make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, lest they play the prostitute after their gods, and sacrifice to their gods, and one call you and you eat of his sacrifice; 16and you take of their daughters to your sons, and their daughters play the prostitute after their gods, and make your sons play the prostitute after their gods..” Exodus 34:14-16

“Yet they didn't listen to their judges; for they played the prostitute after other gods, and bowed themselves down to them: they turned aside quickly out of the way in which their fathers walked, obeying the commandments of Yahweh; [but] they didn't do so.” Judges 2:17

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

God, I speak with him every day!

Actually, If you studied history and the Bible even one iota as much as you claim to do, you would not be asking me this question.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

There are those who believe as you do and there are those who don't. You are wasting your time and ours, not to mention server bandwidth, with page after page after page of attempts to convince others to abandon their beliefs in favor of yours. Believe as you wish, no one is trying to stop you.

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Nope, just “earnestly contending for the faith once for all delivered to the saints” Jude 1:3
Contending means just that, to put up a struggle and not just play possum in the presence of resistance.





The problem is, Blade, that God has explicitly revealed himself otherwise than as a trinity of persons. He has revealed himself to Jews and to us.

“Thus says the LORD, who created you…O Israel…You are My witnesses…and My servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no savior…you are my witnesses, says the LORD, that I am God…the Holy One…your Holy One…your King.” (Isaiah 43:1–15)

Some “intellectuals” have said, “With our own minds, we know about as much about God as a fly does about nuclear science.”

Similar to this is a statement from Charles Spurgeon…’As well might a gnat seek to drink in the ocean, as a finite creature to comprehend the Eternal God.’” - Michael L. Brown, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, Vol 2, 265, footnote 5.

Is what God said in Isaiah 43:1-5 no different than to say to a fly, “You are My witnesses…and My servant…that you may know and believe me, and understand the things about nuclear science that I’ve revealed to you”? Such an idea flies (pardon the pun) in the face of God and calls God a liar rather than claiming with God that His people are His witnesses and do understand and know Him. Certainly, we cannot reveal anything at all about nuclear science to a fly. So how do the analogies of the gnat or the fly compare to the things of God, since He can and has revealed much to us about Himself? To say we can and do know nothing, when God says He has revealed everything we need, and that we can and do understand is nothing more or less than disbelieving God.

Certainly, I’m not saying we know everything God has planned or is capable of doing. I’m not referring to the riches of His wisdom or His knowledge or His judgments that are all “past tracing out” (Romans 11:33). We gnats may not be able to drink in the entire ocean of God’s wisdom and abilities, but we can certainly understand that one drop of sea water tastes pretty much the same as all the rest of the salt water in the ocean. At the same time, this isn’t to say that by looking at calm waves we can conclude the destructive potential of tsunamis. Do you see the fallacy in comparing the ability of a thing to its nature? It is as much of a fallacy as saying we can know practically nothing about God because we can’t know everything about God. What I’m saying is, if God says He has revealed much about who and what He is, how can we say we know nothing at all? There is no connection between the basis and the conclusion. It is the type of argument Satan used in tempting Jesus. [b]It is a ploy to cast doubt on God’s word and the sufficiency of God’s word. Once doubt in the sufficiency of God’s word takes root, the next step is to introduce a concept that is contrary to God’s word, even though it may appear to be implied there.

The New Testament also claims we can know God. For it is written,

“What may be known of God is manifest…, for God has shown it… For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead…” (Romans 1:18–20; NKJV)

This is what the Bible says about whether or not God can be known. It even explicitly says that we can know and understand His eternal power and Godhead. Try telling that much nuclear science to a fly or a gnat. This particular passage isn’t even speaking about the servants of God, but of the worldly-minded. And what does it say about those who refuse to believe the things that God has revealed about Himself, including His eternal power and Godhead? It says that they will change His glory into an image made like corruptible, physical men and animals.

“Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.” (Romans 1:21–23)

This is the problem with leaning on the human, carnal, finite, limited understanding of the world’s philosophers. This was the method of Satan when he tempted Eve in the Garden. Those who attempt to show that God cannot be known, usually have a concealed motive. Once they convince you that God can’t be known, they can broach the possibility of beliefs about God other than, and most often contrary to, the things He has revealed of Himself. If you listen to them, you’ll think that God has not fully revealed Himself (especially regarding the way in which we are to understand Him), and you may begin to conceive of God as they do—in a material sense, rather than in a truly glorious, spiritual sense. It is an expected, predicted end, declared and prophesied in Romans. Those who don’t know God, change Him into something material.

The princes and philosophers of this world may presume that we can’t know the things of God…

“But we speak God’s wisdom…which God foreordained before the worlds…which none of the rulers of this world has known… But to us, God revealed them through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God’s Spirit. But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God.
“Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:7–14)

And of course, my personal favorite:

“Jesus said… ‘You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.’” (John 4:21–22)

Away, then, with the philosophers of this world, who change the glory of God into an image of corruptible man! Away, then, with the worldly-minded, who refuse to receive, accept, and believe the things of God that have been freely given to us of God! Instead, let us speak the things that the Spirit has declared! No, not in man’s wisdom—not in the language of the philosophers of this world—but with the language of God that the Spirit teaches!

The Gnostics and their offspring the Trinitarians have turned the glory of God, which in a word is love, into the image of material, corporeal, and corruptible man and beasts. And they have done this through agreeing with the world’s philosophers that God cannot be known.





This is absolutely NOT what traditional Trinitarians say.

In fact, they are quite adamant about it, as for example:

“God’s love is not just toward mankind but first of all among the three Persons of the Godhead. And three Persons they must be. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit can’t be mere offices, titles, or modes in which God manifests Himself, for such cannot love, consult, and fellowship together. Not only is the Son presented as a person but so are the Father and the Holy Spirit.” Zemirah, May 12, 2019 01:22:54 https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-157872-1.html#2840621

Of course, what they are neglecting to tell you is that, if any of the persons of the Trinity need any of the other persons, then none of them are “almighty.”

If Zemirah isn’t a respecter of persons, she should jump all over you for having a Oneness/Modalist view of God.

The ancients understood, that if a deific being required or needed other deific beings for anything then none of them were truly God anyway. The Trinitarian champion of Nicaea posed just such questions to the pagans. He should have realized his questions applied equally against his own view of God.

“…If it is an admitted t***h about God that He stands in need of nothing, but is self-sufficient…how is it right to proclaim as gods (those)…which even stand in need of one another’s help?… For if the combination of the parts makes up the whole, and the whole is combined out of the parts, then the whole consists of the parts, and each of them is a portion of the whole…if He consists of parts, certainly it will follow that He is unlike Himself, and made up of unlike parts… But the following point, drawn from the observation of our human body, is enough to refute them. For just as the eye is not the sense of hearing, nor is the latter a hand: nor is the belly the breast, nor again is the neck a foot, but each of these has its own function, and a single body is composed of these distinct parts,— having its parts combined for use, but destined to be divided in course of time.” Athanasius, Against the Heathen, Chapter 28.

“…For if there were more than one Ruler of Creation…universal order would not be maintained, but all things would fall into confusion because of their plurality, each one biasing the whole to his own will…so it follows that the rule of more than one is the rule of none. For each one would cancel the rule of the other, and none would appear ruler, but there would be anarchy everywhere…” Athanasius, Against the Heathen, Chapter 38.

“…If the one universe were made by a plurality of gods, that would mean weakness on the part of those who made it, because many contributed to a single result; which would be a strong proof of the imperfect creative sk**l of each. For if one were sufficient, the many would not supplement each other’s deficiency…Again, if each one were sufficient for the creation of the whole, what need of more than one, one being self-sufficient for the universe?” Athanasius, Against the Heathen, Chapter 39

In these passages, Athanasius is arguing against the many gods of the pagans. But his reasoning applies equally well against the persons of the Trinity. None of the members of the Trinity are really God if they need each other in any way.

Note above, from Zemirah, that they have to be persons in order to be able to love and communicate.

Trinitarians claim that God couldn’t be called “love” without always having other persons to love. That is a need. They also say God always had to have a son in order to be a father. Again, that is a need. The Trinitarian persons are no less needy and interdependent than the pagan gods.

Therefore, none of them are "true God".

Rose42

Like Blade said you aren’t going to convince anyone who doesn’t share your belief. You won’t sway those who know the t***h with page after page of empty rhetoric and false claims. You can always start your own topic and people can read it if they want to.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Proclaiming false teachings is such a weak tactic...Unless backed by facts and t***h...

Why should any of us start our own topic when this is where the argument started?

Rose42

T***h is t***h whether you like it or not.



It was just a suggestion. Neither you or I are the arbiter of who says what and where. If he has his own topic then those interested can read his babble.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Good morning/evening Tommy...

Love it when I wake up and there is a page or two of well reasoned argum on the thread...

Also...One of my friends finished his counter-argument to your premise last night...I didn't see it until I got up...

He did a fairly decent job of presenting evidence (biblical/Scriptural) if the Trinity...Plus he Added his own personal understanding of the necessity of God being three in nature...

He neglected to cite his sources and I am waiting for him to provide them... Forum rules, the principles of debate, and common courtesy require them...

As soon as he sends them to me I will post his counter-argument

I think you will enjoy it...
And I know he is eager for your response

Hope all is well with you...

Your friend, Kyle

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Babble?

You are rather dismissive of an argument you cannot/ will not contend with

I quite enjoy all of the "babble" that goes on on this thread...(well..90% of it anyways )

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

A special thanks to Zemirah...

That Bible APP you provided me with is beyond excellent... I am having quite the love affair with it...

It is exactly what I have been looking for in a Bible APP... And I have suggested it to several of my friends... You have their gratitude as well...

Rose42

Far finer minds have dealt with that false teaching. There’s nothing I can add. Tommy isn’t the first and won’t be the last false teacher.