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What Do God & Jesus Say about Tolerance and Inclusion?
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Mar 20, 2019 19:37:42   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Actually, Canuckus, a group declaring themselves to be the one true church of Jesus Christ on earth has already tried that.

They killed hundreds of thousands in cold blood, but were unable to destroy Jesus' "little flock" of followers who denied their extra-Biblical doctrines, and refused to submit to them.

The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the government system of the Catholic Church whose goal was to destroy all they perceived to be heretics. It started in 12th-century France to combat religious dissent, in particular the Cathars and the Waldensians. Other groups later included the Spiritual Franciscans, the Hussites (followers of Jan Hus) and the Beguines. Beginning in the 1250s, inquisitors were generally chosen from members of the Dominican Order. The term Medieval Inquisition covers these courts up to mid-15th century.

During the Late Middle Ages and the early Renaissance, the concept and scope of the Inquisition significantly expanded in response to the Protestant Reformation and the Catholic Counter-Reformation. It expanded to other European countries, resulting in the Spanish Inquisition and Portuguese Inquisition. The Spanish and Portuguese operated inquisitorial courts throughout their empires in Africa, Asia, and the Americas (resulting in the Peruvian Inquisition and Mexican Inquisition). The Spanish and Portuguese inquisitions focused particularly on the issue of Jewish anusim and Muslim converts to Catholicism, partly because these minority groups were more numerous in Spain and Portugal than in many other parts of Europe, and partly because they were often considered suspect due to the assumption that they had secretly reverted to their previous religions.

With the exception of the Papal States, the institution of the Inquisition was abolished in the early 19th century, after the Napoleonic Wars in Europe and the Spanish American wars of independence in the Americas. The institution has survived as part of the Roman Curia, but in 1908 it was renamed the "Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office". In 1965 it became the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It is still there waiting in the wings.

When a suspect was convicted of unrepentant heresy, the inquisitorial tribunal was required by law to hand the person over to the secular authorities for final sentencing, at which point a magistrate would determine the penalty, which was usually burning at the stake although the penalty varied based on local law.

The 1578 edition of the Directorium Inquisitorum (a standard Inquisitorial manual) spelled out the purpose of inquisitorial penalties: ... quoniam punitio non refertur primo & per se in correctionem & bonum eius qui punitur, sed in bonum publicum ut alij terreantur, & a malis committendis avocentur (translation: "... for punishment does not take place primarily and per se for the correction and good of the person punished, but for the public good in order that others may become terrified and weaned away from the evils they would commit").

It sounds like it meets today's criteria for being declared deliberate acts of terrorism.

Such is the true record of "tradition" so proudly defended today.

Gleaned from Wikipedia
Actually, Canuckus, a group declaring themselves t... (show quote)


Good evening Zemirah...
Hope you are well today...

Somewhat confused by this post... I thought that the thread was about intolerance being a part of Christianity...

The Inquisition was a terrible time in Christian history... All of God's children stumble at times... Which is why we must strive against such actions...

The preacher in the article above article seems to have forgotten this... He is even outraged at the sharing of faith between Christians and Muslims...

I hope all of God's children can grow in love and embrace one another...

Reply
Mar 20, 2019 19:41:17   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
That, again, is only your opinion which is understandable since her understanding of the faith and your own are similar. I am perfectly content to leave it there but when the ancient faith and practice of the Christian Church are attacked I am not obliged to keep my own peace and not respond.


Zemirah has never attacked Christianity. That is truth.

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Mar 20, 2019 20:35:17   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Another excellent post...
And I strongly agree with your last statement...

Hope you had a good day Padre...


Trying to rest. We've been gone to Alabama looking for a home close to our children. Our current home was totaled by our insurance company as a result of a devastating hurricane to hit the Florida Panhandle. It's liveable but not as a permanent residence without some major repairs. Our children want us closer to them to keep an eye on us and help us in those things old mom's and dads need help in. A couple weeks ago our Zoe, a wonderful loving rescue dog, passed away and every time I've lost a beloved pet I bury a huge piece of my own heart. Every day something reminds one of us about Zoe and our faces get wet all over again. My brother has told me that if there were such a thing as reincarnation he wants to come back as my dog. I've got to change the subject right now! Yet in truth and full disclosure, God is in His heavens therefore I'm confident, absolutely confident, all is well!

You inquired in a thread lately what books people had been reading. I intended to respond but got sidetracked. A South African author, Wilbur Smith, has written a series on Africa beginning with the Dutch East India Company colony at Cape Horn continuing into modern times. He is an author who, like Mitchner, includes fictional people amongst historical people and facts. I found these books captivating so much, in fact, I've read them all at least six times and they're fresh each time I read one anew. There are quite a few books in his series and will keep one thoroughly entertained for some time. I've read them all in Ebooks. I have also read all the Louis L'amour western a time or two, or three or maybe a dozen times. I always found them to be a great source to absorb all the cares of the world for a time. I have several other authors I read but that's for another time.

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Mar 20, 2019 20:57:58   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
padremike wrote:
Trying to rest. We've been gone to Alabama looking for a home close to our children. Our current home was totaled by our insurance company as a result of a devastating hurricane to hit the Florida Panhandle. It's liveable but not as a permanent residence without some major repairs. Our children want us closer to them to keep an eye on us and help us in those things old mom's and dads need help in. A couple weeks ago our Zoe, a wonderful loving rescue dog, passed away and every time I've lost a beloved pet I bury a huge piece of my own heart. Every day something reminds one of us about Zoe and our faces get wet all over again. My brother has told me that if there were such a thing as reincarnation he wants to come back as my dog. I've got to change the subject right now! Yet in truth and full disclosure, God is in His heavens therefore I'm confident, absolutely confident, all is well!

You inquired in a thread lately what books people had been reading. I intended to respond but got sidetracked. A South African author, Wilbur Smith, has written a series on Africa beginning with the Dutch East India Company colony at Cape Horn continuing into modern times. He is an author who, like Mitchner, includes fictional people amongst historical people and facts. I found these books captivating so much, in fact, I've read them all at least six times and they're fresh each time I read one anew. There are quite a few books in his series and will keep one thoroughly entertained for some time. I've read them all in Ebooks. I have also read all the Louis L'amour western a time or two, or three or maybe a dozen times. I always found them to be a great source to absorb all the cares of the world for a time. I have several other authors I read but that's for another time.
Trying to rest. We've been gone to Alabama lookin... (show quote)


Hi Padre...

Hope the move is swift and easy... But it is always difficult to 'break new ground'... Glad that your children recognize the value of their parents and you will be close to family...

Truly sorry to hear about your dog... Ours is fourteen going on fifteen and suffers from arthritis and back problems... I know how much a pet can be loved... And missed...

I am unfamiliar with this author, Wilbur Smith, but will certainly look him up... Six times is a hell of a pitch

I believe Coos Bay Tom is also a fan of Louis L'amour... Books are great for relaxation and for connecting us in shared interests...

Take it easy while traveling and try to enjoy the opportunity to eat out

Your friend, Kyle

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Mar 20, 2019 21:21:28   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
Zemirah has never attacked Christianity. That is truth.


Let's rephrase your comment and say she has never attacked what she considers Christianity. She is not qualified to make that determination. Only the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic church can do that. Yet you recall a time the apostles were anxious because there were others, not part of their little apostolic band, who were healing the sick, preaching, etc? Jesus told them that those who weren't against them were for them. I am very much aware that Christ's Grace flows where He says it will flow, not where you, not where I, not where Zemirah says it will flow. In my lengthy night prayers I pray for all those who Christ has called to serve His holy church and I first begin with those who are the most important, the laity, those people in the pews. Then for our bishops, priests, deacons, then those religious orders that pray for Christ's Holy Church, and for His clergy and finally for all ministers, preachers and pastors that Jesus would say "they are for us not against us." Although I am very much opposed to much of the Protestant theology, and although I believe the reformation to be the second worst schism in Christianity and to have caused the most hatred and dissension between Christians, how do we not pray for each other and that we all become One?

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Mar 20, 2019 21:45:03   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
padremike wrote:
Let's rephrase your comment and say she has never attacked what she considers Christianity. She is not qualified to make that determination. Only the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic church can do that. Yet you recall a time the apostles were anxious because there were others, not part of their little apostolic band, who were healing the sick, preaching, etc? Jesus told them that those who weren't against them were for them. I am very much aware that Christ's Grace flows where He says it will flow, not where you, not where I, not where Zemirah says it will flow. In my lengthy night prayers I pray for all those who Christ has called to serve His holy church and I first begin with those who are the most important, the laity, those people in the pews. Then for our bishops, priests, deacons, then those religious orders that pray for Christ's Holy Church, and for His clergy and finally for all ministers, preachers and pastors that Jesus would say "they are for us not against us." Although I am very much opposed to much of the Protestant theology, and although I believe the reformation to be the second worst schism in Christianity and to have caused the most hatred and dissension between Christians, how do we not pray for each other and that we all become One?
Let's rephrase your comment and say she has never ... (show quote)


This is the greatest of your posts today...

Words escape me

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Mar 20, 2019 21:59:52   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
This is the greatest of your posts today...

Words escape me


I apologize, my friend, because I see nothing so deserving of your your acclaim but thank you nevertheless.

Reply
 
 
Mar 20, 2019 22:20:24   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
Let's rephrase your comment and say she has never attacked what she considers Christianity. She is not qualified to make that determination. Only the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic church can do that. Yet you recall a time the apostles were anxious because there were others, not part of their little apostolic band, who were healing the sick, preaching, etc? Jesus told them that those who weren't against them were for them. I am very much aware that Christ's Grace flows where He says it will flow, not where you, not where I, not where Zemirah says it will flow. In my lengthy night prayers I pray for all those who Christ has called to serve His holy church and I first begin with those who are the most important, the laity, those people in the pews. Then for our bishops, priests, deacons, then those religious orders that pray for Christ's Holy Church, and for His clergy and finally for all ministers, preachers and pastors that Jesus would say "they are for us not against us." Although I am very much opposed to much of the Protestant theology, and although I believe the reformation to be the second worst schism in Christianity and to have caused the most hatred and dissension between Christians, how do we not pray for each other and that we all become One?
Let's rephrase your comment and say she has never ... (show quote)


You’re wrong padre. The bible is crystal clear on what it takes to be saved. Zemirah knows what that is.

The Catholic church’s authority only extends to Catholics.

I pray that more will be saved though thats not up to me or anyone else. We can pray for each other and there can be peace but not unity in faith because they’re different. Catholics can’t be unified with evangelicals because there are fundamental differences and vice versa. If we join with another faith that is so different then we are not being true to ours.

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Mar 20, 2019 22:34:17   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Rose42 wrote:
You’re wrong padre. The bible is crystal clear on what it takes to be saved. Zemirah knows what that is.

The Catholic church’s authority only extends to Catholics.

I pray that more will be saved though thats not up to me or anyone else. We can pray for each other and there can be peace but not unity in faith because they’re different. Catholics can’t be unified with evangelicals because there are fundamental differences and vice versa. If we join with another faith that is so different then we are not being true to ours.
You’re wrong padre. The bible is crystal clear on ... (show quote)


Unity can be found through love, respect and understanding... And in the belief that we are all the beloved children of the Father... God's love and authority extends to us all...

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Mar 20, 2019 22:47:43   #
Rose42
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Unity can be found through love, respect and understanding... And in the belief that we are all the beloved children of the Father... God's love and authority extends to us all...


There can be no unity of faith with false religions. Especially those that deny the deity of Christ. There are a lot of resources detailing why ecumenism isn’t biblical

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Mar 20, 2019 23:04:14   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
You’re wrong padre. The bible is crystal clear on what it takes to be saved. Zemirah knows what that is.

The Catholic church’s authority only extends to Catholics.

I pray that more will be saved though thats not up to me or anyone else. We can pray for each other and there can be peace but not unity in faith because they’re different. Catholics can’t be unified with evangelicals because there are fundamental differences and vice versa. If we join with another faith that is so different then we are not being true to ours.
You’re wrong padre. The bible is crystal clear on ... (show quote)


The bible is crystal clear on the Eucharist, on the necessity of baptism, on the anointing of the sick, on the selection of clergy, confession of sins, and a host of other things denied by Protestants mostly because their clergy did not have the authority of the sacred priesthood. So they called it the priesthood of all believers which catholics (Rome and Orthodox) also recognize but the sacred priesthood is of the Royal Priesthood of Christ, that of Melchizedek. Protestant clergy cannot share in that priesthood although many have converted and become priests in both the Roman and Orthodox Communions. If I had a choice to pastor a church full of cradle orthodox or a church full of converted Baptist I'd opt for the converted Baptist every time and hang on to keep up with them. Protestants coming to orthodoxy, the catholic faith, experience a fullness of the Christian faith and practice they never knew existed.

The one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church was the authority for all Christians long before Protestants rejected it. Even after the Great Schism between East and West in 1054 the definition did not change and a great deal of the faith and practice remained the same.

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Mar 20, 2019 23:42:01   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Rose42 wrote:
There can be no unity of faith with false religions. Especially those that deny the deity of Christ. There are a lot of resources detailing why ecumenism isn’t biblical


Does that include the Jews?

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Mar 21, 2019 00:04:41   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
There can be no unity of faith with false religions. Especially those that deny the deity of Christ. There are a lot of resources detailing why ecumenism isn’t biblical


My understanding is that Truth, real objective Truth, the type of Truth that can only be given by He who is the Spirit of Truth, can be found in all religions. This is not to say that that religion is true, but rather this is one way in which the Spirit of God is making Himself known to all mankind.

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Mar 21, 2019 08:08:22   #
Rose42
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Does that include the Jews?


If they deny the deity of Christ how can there be a unity of faith? If one is true to their beliefs this would compromise them. Jew or Christian.

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Mar 21, 2019 08:27:47   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Rose42 wrote:
If they deny the deity of Christ how can there be a unity of faith? If one is true to their beliefs this would compromise them. Jew or Christian.


I see it differently I guess...
We would be united in our common belief in God...

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