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To All my OPP Friends who oppose Trump's Wall
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Jan 13, 2019 03:31:51   #
JoyV
 
buffalo wrote:
Why do you people listen to the military industrial corporations that make BILLIONS in taxpayer dollars building needless miltary equipment. How much do we need?

This is the number of aircraft carriers of the US and other countries as of 2018:

https://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-aircraft-carriers.asp

The US currently has 20 aircraft carriers to the rest of the wold's 24. The MOST any other country have is 4 piece. And NONE of them can match the capabilities of the US carriers. GEEZ!

This gddamn bulls**t of spending TRILLIONS on unneeded military crap is what has broke this country NOT needed social and non-existent infrastructure spending. How many time do we need to insanely obliterate the entire earth.
Why do you people listen to the military industria... (show quote)


So you refuse to accept official numbers but will trust an antiwar propaganda site. Look at the first thing on their homepage. "War does not determine who is right--only who is left." If you want to assert there are 20, then name them. Do as I did and list them by name, date commissioned, and status.

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Jan 13, 2019 03:49:43   #
JoyV
 
Idaho wrote:
My last point was meant to be ‘split by the barrier as in cutting the ranch off from water’.


The only way to cut them off from water by the fence would be if their water was in Mexico and they had to hand carry it.

That doesn't even rate a "good try".

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Jan 13, 2019 04:20:28   #
JoyV
 
buffalo wrote:
Yes, ranches are/will be split.

This is a long read but very interesting and informative about a helicopter trip along the entire US/Mexico border from the mouth of the Rio Grande where it empties into the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean. It think it will enlighten anyone who reads it.

http://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/flight-over-entire-us-mexico-border-fence/605855001/


I read the entire article. Nowhere do I see where Trump's wall plan would split ranches. Don't refer to what G W Bush did. He isn't Trump. He made it clear he cared little for average Americans. I remember him giving a speech where he asserted that outsourcing was good for America. His fencing in my state was a joke at best.

At one point the article states, "Fewer migrants are caught crossing the border today than any time in 40 years." So how many were in the last 40 years, and why are there not more i*****l a***ns than Americans, legal residents, and legal visitors combined seeing the current figure is 50,000 apprehended a month? And that doesn't account for those that got away, nor those seeking entry at a port of entry.

"At the same time, the river’s bending hydrology created design nightmares. The border adheres to a pretzel-like channel. Fencing to match would have meant financial chaos and potential catastrophe. A barrier alongside any curving river acts as a dam at high water, backing up the flow and then collapsing into a massive flood."

Just why would anyone want to lay a fence along a winding river channel that changes it bed; especially when the border does not change when the river does. And bollard style walls do NOT act as a dam!

Nor is a wall needed or desired the entire length of the border. In areas too inaccessible to drive to the border, why put in a wall. Drug, gun, and human traffickers want to get in a vehicle as soon as possible once crossing the border. They have no use for crossing in highly inaccessible areas. Of course building a wall across a lake is silly to even contemplate. A TARS would probably work very well in identifying i******s so authorities stationed along the lake could apprehend them.

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Jan 13, 2019 04:30:03   #
JoyV
 
buffalo wrote:
You obviously did not read the entire article, if any at all. But more importantly, you missed my point. One is not necessarily anti-trump in opposing an impractical, unworkable, impossible, waste of taxpayer dollars solution to the invasion of the US by i******s, criminals and terrorists. Walls in certain places would just push the invaders to different areas as has actually happened where a wall/fence/barrier already exists. Walls/fences/barriers in other areas, like along the Rio Grande in Southern Texas would be destroyed by a river subject to flooding, changing directions, etc. Walls/fences/barriers in certain other places would mean cutting farmers, ranchers and wildlife access to the river and even cutting parcels of land in two. In places where a wall/fence barrier is feasible the cost and time to aquire the necessary land will be prohibitive. Proof of this is the fact the out of 360 cases filed against the government for land grabbing along the border years ago, 85 have still not been settled.

http://www.agweb.com/article/trumps-border-wall-would-split-texas-ranch-in-two/

http://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-the-border-wall-wont-work

http://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/appropriators-dont-mess-texas-landowners-border-wall

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/01/unfinished-us-mexico-border-wall-texas-secure-fence-act

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/10/15/landowners-along-u-s-mexico-border-claim-govt-is-abusing-its-power-to-take-land-at-unfair-prices
You obviously did not read the entire article, if... (show quote)


"The proposed border wall between Mexico and the United States threatens to cut through a ranch that has belonged to the Cavazos family for 250 years."

Either they are Mexican citizens squatting on American soil, American citizens breaking Mexican law, or this is simply a lie. NO American can own land in Mexico. If this family has claimed Mexican land they cannot legally own, I pity what the Mexican government will do to them now that they have held up a spotlight.

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Jan 13, 2019 04:33:47   #
JoyV
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
The wall is color-blind...
Or is it permeable to caucasians only?
How does it make the judgement?
Could Elizabeth Warren get through?


Hope you and your wife are well and enjoying the new year...



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Jan 13, 2019 04:44:26   #
JoyV
 
teabag09 wrote:
Joy, I don't understand you post. I live in Chesapeake Va. and almost daily see three Aircraft Carriers tied up to pier in Norfolk while four are at sea. We have 11 active Aircraft Carriers with 5 or six at duty at all times.

We have a new Carrier coming on line which is going to replace the Nimitz class with the Gerald Ford class which is so updated it's crazy. If you remember President Trump questioned as to why they were going from steam catapults to magnetic.

My son in law spent 10 years on a Nimitz class carrier and still works at a ship yard refurbishing these great ships.

They can go 20 years without refueling. Their biggest problem is keeping enough food on board to feed 5000 three meals a day. They have three kitchens on board, two Hospitals with Ors. The ships produce their own fresh water from seawater.

I would suggest you Google a carrier. I think you'd be amazed and really enjoy the experience.

I also use to do the pig cook for the SEAL TEAMS in August at Little Creek, Va. Lived with them and had one living at my parents house. God bless America. Mike
Joy, I don't understand you post. I live in Chesap... (show quote)


Which carriers? And do you know they aren't undergoing repairs? And even 11 is far short of the claim given that we have 20 carriers.

Now as to the cost, seeing that we still have carriers which are about 40 years old; I think they were well worth their price. If any of our new carriers last half as long, they will be money well spent!

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Jan 13, 2019 04:45:14   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
JoyV wrote:
So you refuse to accept official numbers but will trust an antiwar propaganda site. Look at the first thing on their homepage. "War does not determine who is right--only who is left." If you want to assert there are 20, then name them. Do as I did and list them by name, date commissioned, and status.


Look at the signature at the bottom of each of my posts: War is a Racket! Gen. Smedley Butler made that declaration in 1935 and it is even more relevant today.

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Jan 13, 2019 04:55:41   #
JoyV
 
markc wrote:
Just a thought or two:
The same post-WWII decision makers that created the state of Israel decided that other refugees should have rights also.
That is what is happening. It is much easier to go back to pre-WWII mentality.
I would h**e to be a refugee, especially a child. I can remember being scared as a child.
If there is a problem with the number of refugees coming into the U.S., then it should be solved at the source, the country of origin, not persecuting the victims. End of story
Just a thought or two: br The same post-WWII decis... (show quote)


So who doesn't have rights? You must remember that post WWII the Jews weren't fleeing persecution or economic hardship. The surviving Jews literally had no place to go. Their own homes had been taken from them permanently. No other country would allow them entry, including the US except in a few cases. Their ancestral home was still occupied by Jews, as well as Arabs and Christians. Jewish organizations were purchasing land from Arab occupiers who were willingly selling it.

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Jan 13, 2019 05:25:38   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
JoyV wrote:
"The proposed border wall between Mexico and the United States threatens to cut through a ranch that has belonged to the Cavazos family for 250 years."

Either they are Mexican citizens squatting on American soil, American citizens breaking Mexican law, or this is simply a lie. NO American can own land in Mexico. If this family has claimed Mexican land they cannot legally own, I pity what the Mexican government will do to them now that they have held up a spotlight.
"The proposed border wall between Mexico and ... (show quote)


Your lack of, or refusal to, comprehend the impossibility of building a wall next to the Rio Grande is almost comical. You do not live in Texas, eh, JoyV? Texas is steeped in the tradition of private-property rights.

Because of international treaty and flood zone requirements, the fence is set back from the winding Rio Grande, and since it divides some U.S. properties, the fence is broken up by gaps Texas residents use to traverse their land. Smugglers use them too.

Fences were built sometimes on seized properties, sometimes on federally owned land. Along the river, or sometimes as much as a mile inland from it, brown steel bollards cut through fields and rise from river levees. But the fences come with giant gaps, too.

The promise of a border wall from President Donald Trump has renewed concerns for south Texans whose private-property lines end at the banks of the Rio Grande.

Regardless of whether the new administration seeks to simply close the gaps in existing fences or build a whole new wall, some believe the wall will leave them cut off. They'll be on the opposite side from friends, neighbors, the rest of the United States.

Some fear even worse. They look at where they fall on a map, trace a straight line along the top edge of a twisting river border, and believe a wall will slice right through their homes or businesses, effectively wiping them off that map.

In Texas, that's personal. Texas is steeped in the tradition of private-property rights.

The sprawling states of the West generally contain huge swaths of federal land. Some are more than half federally owned. But hulking Texas contains almost no federally owned property, a legacy of when the Republic of Texas joined the union.

About a third of the entire border is fenced, nearly 700 miles. But just 17% of the border in the valley has fencing, about 55 miles, a Border Patrol spokesman said. Much of that fence was built during Barack Obama's presidency as part of the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which some residents and environmental groups unsuccessfully sued to block.

The fencing had to meet requirements of a 1970 treaty administered by the International Boundary and Water Commission, a joint U.S.-Mexican agency, which requires that structures built along the Rio Grande cannot disrupt its flow. The result: some U.S. property lies south of the fence but north of the Rio Grande.

Extending the fence or building a wall could bring a new round of court fights. And while there's no known path for the wall, sealing the entire Texas border could require seizing property on an untold scale. A USA TODAY NETWORK analysis of property records of the entire Texas line shows almost 5,000 parcels of land sit within 500 feet of the border. Building a wall there could affect almost all of them.

http://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/eminent-domain-trump-border-wall-rio-grande/638916001/

I would wager that if it were your property that had been in your family for generations that was being split or even cut off, you would squeal like a piglet stuck under a gate.

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Jan 13, 2019 09:25:03   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
ACP45 wrote:
The best rationale in support of President Trump's position on building a wall to halt i*****l i*********n is explained in this article published on ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-10/israel-vs-america-capita-cost-border-wall-construction

For those who do not want to take the time to read it, I will summarize the key take-aways:

1) A Wall is effective. -
"The wall Netenyahu is referring to is the Israel-Egypt barrier on the southern border, which began construction in November 2010 and was completed in December 2013. The 152-mile long barrier was built at the urging of Netenyahu to curb an influx of i*****l i*******ts and terrorists from African nations.

Even left-leaning Politifact was forced to admit it worked…

Johnson said Israel cut its i*****l i*********n rate by “99 percent” by constructing a 143-mile fence along its southern border.

Israeli government data support Johnson’s statement. Johnson’s statement is accurate, but needs additional information. We rate it Mostly True."

2) The "Wall is too Costly" - or, "We can't Afford It" -
This one is easy. Israel takes it's security seriously. Many of America's politicians do not. Let's look at the following:

"Clearly, the very tiny country of Israel dev**es an incredible amount of resources to border fencing and security, with an estimated 484 miles of completed walls/fencing and more under construction. Conversely, the US claims to have 580 miles of “barriers” in place already. Israel’s heavy usage of border walls is even more astounding when its size and GDP are considered relative to the US:

Israel

Population (2017 est): 8.7 million

GDP (2017): $350.9 billion (USD)

GDP per capita: $40,333 (USD)

The US

Population (2017 est): 325.7 million

GDP (2017): $19.39 trillion ($19,390 billion USD)

GDP per capita: $59,533 (USD)

Israel’s population is 2.7% of the US population, and its annual GDP is 1.8% that of US GDP. In spite of Israel’s tiny size, population and GDP, the total mileage of completed barriers in the country is just under 25% that of the entire length of the 1,954-mile US-Mexico border.

Putting it into per capita terms, each Israeli citizen is “responsible” for the construction of about 3.5 inches of wall. Conversely, each US citizen is “responsible” for the construction of 0.11 inches of “barrier” – which as Peter Skerry articulated in in 2009, long before Trump or his wall – has been poorly constructed in many areas, often intentionally so."

The article goes on to say, "The opposition to Trump’s border wall ultimately boils down to the argument “it’s a waste of money”. But the same politicians so vociferously opposing a $5.7 billion dollar wall funding request complained, but ultimately funded George W. Bush‘s Iraq war request – despite its $54.4 billion budget for 2003 alone (over nine times Trump’s wall request). That price tag has since ballooned well into the trillions – but Democrats refused to shut the government to prevent it.

Democrats have also refused to shut the government over funding for the US Navy’s wasteful aircraft carrier spending. The last completed aircraft carrier, the USS George W. Bush (CVN-77), was commissioned in 2009 at a cost of $6.2 billion (more than Trump’s wall funding request), and underwent its first deployment in June 2011.

The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) was commissioned in 2017 at a cost of $17.5 billion (including $4.7 billion in R&D for the new carrier class) – and will still require more funding to fix lingering issues with ship engines and EMALS catapults that stilldon’t work properly – before it can undergo its first deployment…

…but that still hasn’t caused Pelosi or Schumer to shut the government down to object to this waste of taxpayer dollars.

In fact, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) continues to be built, with no contractors or military personnel fired or disciplined, despite not being scheduled to enter service until 2022. And as noted above by Anthony Capaccio, the future USS Enterprise (CVN-80) just began construction with an estimated cost of $12.6 billion, and the unnamed CVN-81 at an estimated price tag of $15 billion was recently approved by the Navy – without any objection from Democrats."

CONCLUSION:

Many Americans don’t mind this government shutdown, and applaud Trump for drawing a line in the sand for what amounts to a rather small funding request in the overall scheme of things. However, “the resistance” is doing this to all of us, as they are so keen on not giving Trump a win, they will risk shutting the government down for what could be months.

If government money is going to be wasted anyway, why not spend it on a border wall – which the Israelis have a decades-long track record as a worthwhile investment?
The best rationale in support of President Trump's... (show quote)


👍👍👍 Build the Wall!

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Jan 13, 2019 10:29:45   #
teabag09
 
Joy, the Navy tries to keep 11 Carriers operational. All today are nuke powered and yes some are about 40 years old and are good for another 10 or so years. The Gerald R Ford was just commissioned which gives us 12 with another keel being laid in the dry dock at Newport News, Va. During WWII we had 4 Carriers which escaped destruction because just before the attack on Pearl Harbor, they were sent to sea. Someone knew something! Again, google Carriers, it'll be eye opening. Mike
JoyV wrote:
Which carriers? And do you know they aren't undergoing repairs? And even 11 is far short of the claim given that we have 20 carriers.

Now as to the cost, seeing that we still have carriers which are about 40 years old; I think they were well worth their price. If any of our new carriers last half as long, they will be money well spent!

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Jan 13, 2019 10:31:22   #
Gatsby
 
JoyV wrote:
"The proposed border wall between Mexico and the United States threatens to cut through a ranch that has belonged to the Cavazos family for 250 years."

Either they are Mexican citizens squatting on American soil, American citizens breaking Mexican law, or this is simply a lie. NO American can own land in Mexico. If this family has claimed Mexican land they cannot legally own, I pity what the Mexican government will do to them now that they have held up a spotlight.
"The proposed border wall between Mexico and ... (show quote)


Interstate highways cut through tens of thousands of "family homesteads", so what's the difference?

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Jan 13, 2019 10:56:19   #
markc Loc: Tennessee
 
Whether the cause of refugees is from starvation from flooding, drought or war, the results are the same, refugees.
The cause is relevant because from your statements it should be easier to solve our refugee problems today than it was pre and post WWII, at the source.

JoyV wrote:
So who doesn't have rights? You must remember that post WWII the Jews weren't fleeing persecution or economic hardship. The surviving Jews literally had no place to go. Their own homes had been taken from them permanently. No other country would allow them entry, including the US except in a few cases. Their ancestral home was still occupied by Jews, as well as Arabs and Christians. Jewish organizations were purchasing land from Arab occupiers who were willingly selling it.

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Jan 13, 2019 11:02:48   #
markc Loc: Tennessee
 
I already replied on the other thread but:
Whether the cause of refugees is from starvation from flooding, drought or war, the results are the same, refugees.
The cause is relevant because from your statements it should be easier to solve our refugee problems today than it was pre and post WWII, at the source.

JoyV wrote:
So who doesn't have rights? You must remember that post WWII the Jews weren't fleeing persecution or economic hardship. The surviving Jews literally had no place to go. Their own homes had been taken from them permanently. No other country would allow them entry, including the US except in a few cases. Their ancestral home was still occupied by Jews, as well as Arabs and Christians. Jewish organizations were purchasing land from Arab occupiers who were willingly selling it.

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Jan 13, 2019 13:08:40   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
Gatsby wrote:
Interstate highways cut through tens of thousands of "family homesteads", so what's the difference?


Highways can have gates. Wouldn't gates in the wall (which there are and) defeat the purpose? Highways do not cut off access to water. Remeber whe Gov. Goodhair Perry propsed an 8 lane divided highway with a railroad in between from Mexico all the way to Oklahoma? Texas landowners fre ill-conceived project.om the border to the Texas/Oklahoma border raised so much hell he abandoned th

Water rights have also been a problem for the fence. A 1970 treaty requires that the floodplain of the Rio Grande remain open to both sides of the border. The Obama administration attempted to build fences along the river anyway, but the treaty and the river’s floods forced the barrier to be placed so far into the interior of the United States that it has many holes to allow U.S. residents access to their property. These also provide an opportunity for border crossers.

So far everything about trumpy's wall has been ill-conceived and impractical and needs to be abandoned.

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