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To All my OPP Friends who oppose Trump's Wall
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Jan 11, 2019 06:12:42   #
ACP45 (a regular here)
 
The best rationale in support of President Trump's position on building a wall to halt illegal immigration is explained in this article published on ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-10/israel-vs-america-capita-cost-border-wall-construction

For those who do not want to take the time to read it, I will summarize the key take-aways:

1) A Wall is effective. -
"The wall Netenyahu is referring to is the Israel-Egypt barrier on the southern border, which began construction in November 2010 and was completed in December 2013. The 152-mile long barrier was built at the urging of Netenyahu to curb an influx of illegal immigrants and terrorists from African nations.

Even left-leaning Politifact was forced to admit it worked…

Johnson said Israel cut its illegal immigration rate by “99 percent” by constructing a 143-mile fence along its southern border.

Israeli government data support Johnson’s statement. Johnson’s statement is accurate, but needs additional information. We rate it Mostly True."

2) The "Wall is too Costly" - or, "We can't Afford It" -
This one is easy. Israel takes it's security seriously. Many of America's politicians do not. Let's look at the following:

"Clearly, the very tiny country of Israel devotes an incredible amount of resources to border fencing and security, with an estimated 484 miles of completed walls/fencing and more under construction. Conversely, the US claims to have 580 miles of “barriers” in place already. Israel’s heavy usage of border walls is even more astounding when its size and GDP are considered relative to the US:

Israel

Population (2017 est): 8.7 million

GDP (2017): $350.9 billion (USD)

GDP per capita: $40,333 (USD)

The US

Population (2017 est): 325.7 million

GDP (2017): $19.39 trillion ($19,390 billion USD)

GDP per capita: $59,533 (USD)

Israel’s population is 2.7% of the US population, and its annual GDP is 1.8% that of US GDP. In spite of Israel’s tiny size, population and GDP, the total mileage of completed barriers in the country is just under 25% that of the entire length of the 1,954-mile US-Mexico border.

Putting it into per capita terms, each Israeli citizen is “responsible” for the construction of about 3.5 inches of wall. Conversely, each US citizen is “responsible” for the construction of 0.11 inches of “barrier” – which as Peter Skerry articulated in in 2009, long before Trump or his wall – has been poorly constructed in many areas, often intentionally so."

The article goes on to say, "The opposition to Trump’s border wall ultimately boils down to the argument “it’s a waste of money”. But the same politicians so vociferously opposing a $5.7 billion dollar wall funding request complained, but ultimately funded George W. Bush‘s Iraq war request – despite its $54.4 billion budget for 2003 alone (over nine times Trump’s wall request). That price tag has since ballooned well into the trillions – but Democrats refused to shut the government to prevent it.

Democrats have also refused to shut the government over funding for the US Navy’s wasteful aircraft carrier spending. The last completed aircraft carrier, the USS George W. Bush (CVN-77), was commissioned in 2009 at a cost of $6.2 billion (more than Trump’s wall funding request), and underwent its first deployment in June 2011.

The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) was commissioned in 2017 at a cost of $17.5 billion (including $4.7 billion in R&D for the new carrier class) – and will still require more funding to fix lingering issues with ship engines and EMALS catapults that stilldon’t work properly – before it can undergo its first deployment…

…but that still hasn’t caused Pelosi or Schumer to shut the government down to object to this waste of taxpayer dollars.

In fact, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) continues to be built, with no contractors or military personnel fired or disciplined, despite not being scheduled to enter service until 2022. And as noted above by Anthony Capaccio, the future USS Enterprise (CVN-80) just began construction with an estimated cost of $12.6 billion, and the unnamed CVN-81 at an estimated price tag of $15 billion was recently approved by the Navy – without any objection from Democrats."

CONCLUSION:

Many Americans don’t mind this government shutdown, and applaud Trump for drawing a line in the sand for what amounts to a rather small funding request in the overall scheme of things. However, “the resistance” is doing this to all of us, as they are so keen on not giving Trump a win, they will risk shutting the government down for what could be months.

If government money is going to be wasted anyway, why not spend it on a border wall – which the Israelis have a decades-long track record as a worthwhile investment?

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 06:23:11   #
Idaho
 
ACP45 wrote:
The best rationale in support of President Trump's position on building a wall to halt illegal immigration is explained in this article published on ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-10/israel-vs-america-capita-cost-border-wall-construction

For those who do not want to take the time to read it, I will summarize the key take-aways:

1) A Wall is effective. -
"The wall Netenyahu is referring to is the Israel-Egypt barrier on the southern border, which began construction in November 2010 and was completed in December 2013. The 152-mile long barrier was built at the urging of Netenyahu to curb an influx of illegal immigrants and terrorists from African nations.

Even left-leaning Politifact was forced to admit it worked…

Johnson said Israel cut its illegal immigration rate by “99 percent” by constructing a 143-mile fence along its southern border.

Israeli government data support Johnson’s statement. Johnson’s statement is accurate, but needs additional information. We rate it Mostly True."

2) The "Wall is too Costly" - or, "We can't Afford It" -
This one is easy. Israel takes it's security seriously. Many of America's politicians do not. Let's look at the following:

"Clearly, the very tiny country of Israel devotes an incredible amount of resources to border fencing and security, with an estimated 484 miles of completed walls/fencing and more under construction. Conversely, the US claims to have 580 miles of “barriers” in place already. Israel’s heavy usage of border walls is even more astounding when its size and GDP are considered relative to the US:

Israel

Population (2017 est): 8.7 million

GDP (2017): $350.9 billion (USD)

GDP per capita: $40,333 (USD)

The US

Population (2017 est): 325.7 million

GDP (2017): $19.39 trillion ($19,390 billion USD)

GDP per capita: $59,533 (USD)

Israel’s population is 2.7% of the US population, and its annual GDP is 1.8% that of US GDP. In spite of Israel’s tiny size, population and GDP, the total mileage of completed barriers in the country is just under 25% that of the entire length of the 1,954-mile US-Mexico border.

Putting it into per capita terms, each Israeli citizen is “responsible” for the construction of about 3.5 inches of wall. Conversely, each US citizen is “responsible” for the construction of 0.11 inches of “barrier” – which as Peter Skerry articulated in in 2009, long before Trump or his wall – has been poorly constructed in many areas, often intentionally so."

The article goes on to say, "The opposition to Trump’s border wall ultimately boils down to the argument “it’s a waste of money”. But the same politicians so vociferously opposing a $5.7 billion dollar wall funding request complained, but ultimately funded George W. Bush‘s Iraq war request – despite its $54.4 billion budget for 2003 alone (over nine times Trump’s wall request). That price tag has since ballooned well into the trillions – but Democrats refused to shut the government to prevent it.

Democrats have also refused to shut the government over funding for the US Navy’s wasteful aircraft carrier spending. The last completed aircraft carrier, the USS George W. Bush (CVN-77), was commissioned in 2009 at a cost of $6.2 billion (more than Trump’s wall funding request), and underwent its first deployment in June 2011.

The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) was commissioned in 2017 at a cost of $17.5 billion (including $4.7 billion in R&D for the new carrier class) – and will still require more funding to fix lingering issues with ship engines and EMALS catapults that stilldon’t work properly – before it can undergo its first deployment…

…but that still hasn’t caused Pelosi or Schumer to shut the government down to object to this waste of taxpayer dollars.

In fact, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) continues to be built, with no contractors or military personnel fired or disciplined, despite not being scheduled to enter service until 2022. And as noted above by Anthony Capaccio, the future USS Enterprise (CVN-80) just began construction with an estimated cost of $12.6 billion, and the unnamed CVN-81 at an estimated price tag of $15 billion was recently approved by the Navy – without any objection from Democrats."

CONCLUSION:

Many Americans don’t mind this government shutdown, and applaud Trump for drawing a line in the sand for what amounts to a rather small funding request in the overall scheme of things. However, “the resistance” is doing this to all of us, as they are so keen on not giving Trump a win, they will risk shutting the government down for what could be months.

If government money is going to be wasted anyway, why not spend it on a border wall – which the Israelis have a decades-long track record as a worthwhile investment?
The best rationale in support of President Trump's... (show quote)


Good analysis - my wish is that the government shut down was for more than just 1/4 of the government, and that the elected officials not only were included, but that they should get no back pay. I’m with Trump. Keep it shut, and when it does reopen, call most of the projects and staff that were affected - except the ones that stayed at their jobs despite the pause in paycheck.

Also, let’s be clear - up until now, everyone has been paid. The clock from a pain to employees perspective is only staring now.

Hopefully many of the furloughed employees will seek alternative employment, leaving vacant posts that can be cut altogether.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 06:38:14   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
Idaho wrote:
Good analysis - my wish is that the government shut down was for more than just 1/4 of the government, and that the elected officials not only were included, but that they should get no back pay. I’m with Trump. Keep it shut, and when it does reopen, call most of the projects and staff that were affected - except the ones that stayed at their jobs despite the pause in paycheck.

Also, let’s be clear - up until now, everyone has been paid. The clock from a pain to employees perspective is only staring now.

Hopefully many of the furloughed employees will seek alternative employment, leaving vacant posts that can be cut altogether.
Good analysis - my wish is that the government shu... (show quote)



| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 06:40:34   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
ACP45 wrote:
The best rationale in support of President Trump's position on building a wall to halt illegal immigration is explained in this article published on ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-10/israel-vs-america-capita-cost-border-wall-construction

For those who do not want to take the time to read it, I will summarize the key take-aways:

1) A Wall is effective. -
"The wall Netenyahu is referring to is the Israel-Egypt barrier on the southern border, which began construction in November 2010 and was completed in December 2013. The 152-mile long barrier was built at the urging of Netenyahu to curb an influx of illegal immigrants and terrorists from African nations.

Even left-leaning Politifact was forced to admit it worked…

Johnson said Israel cut its illegal immigration rate by “99 percent” by constructing a 143-mile fence along its southern border.

Israeli government data support Johnson’s statement. Johnson’s statement is accurate, but needs additional information. We rate it Mostly True."

2) The "Wall is too Costly" - or, "We can't Afford It" -
This one is easy. Israel takes it's security seriously. Many of America's politicians do not. Let's look at the following:

"Clearly, the very tiny country of Israel devotes an incredible amount of resources to border fencing and security, with an estimated 484 miles of completed walls/fencing and more under construction. Conversely, the US claims to have 580 miles of “barriers” in place already. Israel’s heavy usage of border walls is even more astounding when its size and GDP are considered relative to the US:

Israel

Population (2017 est): 8.7 million

GDP (2017): $350.9 billion (USD)

GDP per capita: $40,333 (USD)

The US

Population (2017 est): 325.7 million

GDP (2017): $19.39 trillion ($19,390 billion USD)

GDP per capita: $59,533 (USD)

Israel’s population is 2.7% of the US population, and its annual GDP is 1.8% that of US GDP. In spite of Israel’s tiny size, population and GDP, the total mileage of completed barriers in the country is just under 25% that of the entire length of the 1,954-mile US-Mexico border.

Putting it into per capita terms, each Israeli citizen is “responsible” for the construction of about 3.5 inches of wall. Conversely, each US citizen is “responsible” for the construction of 0.11 inches of “barrier” – which as Peter Skerry articulated in in 2009, long before Trump or his wall – has been poorly constructed in many areas, often intentionally so."

The article goes on to say, "The opposition to Trump’s border wall ultimately boils down to the argument “it’s a waste of money”. But the same politicians so vociferously opposing a $5.7 billion dollar wall funding request complained, but ultimately funded George W. Bush‘s Iraq war request – despite its $54.4 billion budget for 2003 alone (over nine times Trump’s wall request). That price tag has since ballooned well into the trillions – but Democrats refused to shut the government to prevent it.

Democrats have also refused to shut the government over funding for the US Navy’s wasteful aircraft carrier spending. The last completed aircraft carrier, the USS George W. Bush (CVN-77), was commissioned in 2009 at a cost of $6.2 billion (more than Trump’s wall funding request), and underwent its first deployment in June 2011.

The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) was commissioned in 2017 at a cost of $17.5 billion (including $4.7 billion in R&D for the new carrier class) – and will still require more funding to fix lingering issues with ship engines and EMALS catapults that stilldon’t work properly – before it can undergo its first deployment…

…but that still hasn’t caused Pelosi or Schumer to shut the government down to object to this waste of taxpayer dollars.

In fact, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) continues to be built, with no contractors or military personnel fired or disciplined, despite not being scheduled to enter service until 2022. And as noted above by Anthony Capaccio, the future USS Enterprise (CVN-80) just began construction with an estimated cost of $12.6 billion, and the unnamed CVN-81 at an estimated price tag of $15 billion was recently approved by the Navy – without any objection from Democrats."

CONCLUSION:

Many Americans don’t mind this government shutdown, and applaud Trump for drawing a line in the sand for what amounts to a rather small funding request in the overall scheme of things. However, “the resistance” is doing this to all of us, as they are so keen on not giving Trump a win, they will risk shutting the government down for what could be months.

If government money is going to be wasted anyway, why not spend it on a border wall – which the Israelis have a decades-long track record as a worthwhile investment?
The best rationale in support of President Trump's... (show quote)


Excellent post...
Am looking forward to some of the rebuttals...

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 08:17:22   #
okie don (a regular here)
 
For years now, illegals have been crossing at night and holing up under bridges etc during the day.

I personally witnessed this when deer hunting back in the 70's in West Texas west of San Antonio.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 08:47:57   #
Airforceone (a regular here)
 
ACP45 wrote:
The best rationale in support of President Trump's position on building a wall to halt illegal immigration is explained in this article published on ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-10/israel-vs-america-capita-cost-border-wall-construction

For those who do not want to take the time to read it, I will summarize the key take-aways:

1) A Wall is effective. -
"The wall Netenyahu is referring to is the Israel-Egypt barrier on the southern border, which began construction in November 2010 and was completed in December 2013. The 152-mile long barrier was built at the urging of Netenyahu to curb an influx of illegal immigrants and terrorists from African nations.

Even left-leaning Politifact was forced to admit it worked…

Johnson said Israel cut its illegal immigration rate by “99 percent” by constructing a 143-mile fence along its southern border.

Israeli government data support Johnson’s statement. Johnson’s statement is accurate, but needs additional information. We rate it Mostly True."

2) The "Wall is too Costly" - or, "We can't Afford It" -
This one is easy. Israel takes it's security seriously. Many of America's politicians do not. Let's look at the following:

"Clearly, the very tiny country of Israel devotes an incredible amount of resources to border fencing and security, with an estimated 484 miles of completed walls/fencing and more under construction. Conversely, the US claims to have 580 miles of “barriers” in place already. Israel’s heavy usage of border walls is even more astounding when its size and GDP are considered relative to the US:

Israel

Population (2017 est): 8.7 million

GDP (2017): $350.9 billion (USD)

GDP per capita: $40,333 (USD)

The US

Population (2017 est): 325.7 million

GDP (2017): $19.39 trillion ($19,390 billion USD)

GDP per capita: $59,533 (USD)

Israel’s population is 2.7% of the US population, and its annual GDP is 1.8% that of US GDP. In spite of Israel’s tiny size, population and GDP, the total mileage of completed barriers in the country is just under 25% that of the entire length of the 1,954-mile US-Mexico border.

Putting it into per capita terms, each Israeli citizen is “responsible” for the construction of about 3.5 inches of wall. Conversely, each US citizen is “responsible” for the construction of 0.11 inches of “barrier” – which as Peter Skerry articulated in in 2009, long before Trump or his wall – has been poorly constructed in many areas, often intentionally so."

The article goes on to say, "The opposition to Trump’s border wall ultimately boils down to the argument “it’s a waste of money”. But the same politicians so vociferously opposing a $5.7 billion dollar wall funding request complained, but ultimately funded George W. Bush‘s Iraq war request – despite its $54.4 billion budget for 2003 alone (over nine times Trump’s wall request). That price tag has since ballooned well into the trillions – but Democrats refused to shut the government to prevent it.

Democrats have also refused to shut the government over funding for the US Navy’s wasteful aircraft carrier spending. The last completed aircraft carrier, the USS George W. Bush (CVN-77), was commissioned in 2009 at a cost of $6.2 billion (more than Trump’s wall funding request), and underwent its first deployment in June 2011.

The USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) was commissioned in 2017 at a cost of $17.5 billion (including $4.7 billion in R&D for the new carrier class) – and will still require more funding to fix lingering issues with ship engines and EMALS catapults that stilldon’t work properly – before it can undergo its first deployment…

…but that still hasn’t caused Pelosi or Schumer to shut the government down to object to this waste of taxpayer dollars.

In fact, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) continues to be built, with no contractors or military personnel fired or disciplined, despite not being scheduled to enter service until 2022. And as noted above by Anthony Capaccio, the future USS Enterprise (CVN-80) just began construction with an estimated cost of $12.6 billion, and the unnamed CVN-81 at an estimated price tag of $15 billion was recently approved by the Navy – without any objection from Democrats."

CONCLUSION:

Many Americans don’t mind this government shutdown, and applaud Trump for drawing a line in the sand for what amounts to a rather small funding request in the overall scheme of things. However, “the resistance” is doing this to all of us, as they are so keen on not giving Trump a win, they will risk shutting the government down for what could be months.

If government money is going to be wasted anyway, why not spend it on a border wall – which the Israelis have a decades-long track record as a worthwhile investment?
The best rationale in support of President Trump's... (show quote)


Yes a wall works this is the 21st century not the 15th century. So in the 15th century walls worked but we are in the 21st century where we have virtual walls. Democrats want 21st century technology to protect our borders not a 15th century technology.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 08:49:59   #
buffalo
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Excellent post...
Am looking forward to some of the rebuttals...


A wall spanning the entire US/Mexico border is easier said than done. I don't think anyone here has examined the logistics of building and wall, especially along the Texas/Mexico border that is the Rio Grand.

The impact to eco systems and landowners would be devastating.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5#perhaps-the-best-example-of-the-economic-impact-of-border-barriers-can-be-seen-at-the-fort-brown-memorial-golf-course-near-brownsville-texas-which-sits-in-what-is-essentially-a-border-dead-zone-caught-between-mexico-and-the-us-41

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 08:51:17   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
Airforceone wrote:
Yes a wall works this is the 21st century not the 15th century. So in the 15th century walls worked but we are in the 21st century where we have virtual walls. Democrats want 21st century technology to protect our borders not a 15th century technology.


Explain how a virtual wall would decrease illegal immigration across the southern border?

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 08:53:16   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
buffalo wrote:
A wall spanning the entire US/Mexico border is easier said than done. I don't think anyone here has examined the logistics of building and wall, especially along the Texas/Mexico border that is the Rio Grand.

The impact to eco systems and landowners would be devastating.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5#perhaps-the-best-example-of-the-economic-impact-of-border-barriers-can-be-seen-at-the-fort-brown-memorial-golf-course-near-brownsville-texas-which-sits-in-what-is-essentially-a-border-dead-zone-caught-between-mexico-and-the-us-41
A wall spanning the entire US/Mexico border is eas... (show quote)


Agreed... After one of your other posts I looked into it... But there are many areas that would benefit from a barriar and other methods could be employed where it is not feasible...

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 08:58:11   #
okie don (a regular here)
 
Lake Amisted is on the border west of San Antonio and north of Del Rio,TX. The border runs down thru the middle of the lake.
Just say'in.
Good bass fishing lake.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 09:00:23   #
ACP45 (a regular here)
 
buffalo wrote:
A wall spanning the entire US/Mexico border is easier said than done. I don't think anyone here has examined the logistics of building and wall, especially along the Texas/Mexico border that is the Rio Grand.

The impact to eco systems and landowners would be devastating.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5#perhaps-the-best-example-of-the-economic-impact-of-border-barriers-can-be-seen-at-the-fort-brown-memorial-golf-course-near-brownsville-texas-which-sits-in-what-is-essentially-a-border-dead-zone-caught-between-mexico-and-the-us-41
A wall spanning the entire US/Mexico border is eas... (show quote)


Buffalo,
I don't think a wall is necessary over the entire 1,900 mile border. Use it selectively where needed, which is the easiest crossing points. Drones, blimps, other unmanned aircraft, electronic monitoring, etc. can be used for environmentally sensitive areas, etc.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 09:01:05   #
ACP45 (a regular here)
 
Airforceone wrote:
Yes a wall works this is the 21st century not the 15th century. So in the 15th century walls worked but we are in the 21st century where we have virtual walls. Democrats want 21st century technology to protect our borders not a 15th century technology.


It seems to work pretty well in the 21st century over in Israel.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 09:01:49   #
ACP45 (a regular here)
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Agreed... After one of your other posts I looked into it... But there are many areas that would benefit from a barriar and other methods could be employed where it is not feasible...


Exactly!

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 09:23:12   #
Peewee (a regular here)
 
Just watching a few of the DEM and GOP resistance to the wall, makes me believe they are involved in drugs and human trafficking.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 09:35:02   #
buffalo
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Agreed... After one of your other posts I looked into it... But there are many areas that would benefit from a barriar and other methods could be employed where it is not feasible...


Hence my calling for the stationing of troops and their use of all the modern technology available. IMO it would be great for the economies of all the cities and towns along the US/Mexico border.

See my reponse to okie don below...

| Reply
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