Dear Crazylibertarian,
Necromancy is the word for communicating with the dead. Only our Lord Jesus the Christ has so far received eternal resurrection of the dead.

Before I became a Christian I attended a seance where a spirit was contacted. I knew, before becoming a Christian, from that and other experiences that the spirit world is real. When I became a Christian the Lord revealed to me that, though yes those spirits were real, they were lying spirits and they were evil. Believe me, there was nothing that otherwise would have made me think they were evil. We mortals simply do not know what sin is, except the Bible calls it sin or evil.

My testimony to you is this, that talking with people about the religious traditions they have been indoctrinated into is very much like talking politics between opposing views of liberals and conservatives. What I know to be true, is that Catholic teachings are perversions of the faith once delivered to the saints just like progressive socialists in America pervert the words and founding principles of America. I’m sure you believe otherwise, but the actual facts of history and biblically influenced Judeo-Christian doctrines, like the scriptural testimony against the necromancy you are now defending, are not on the side of Romanism.

I hope you will consider what I am saying. Confirmation bias is as real a phenomenon as evil spirits pretending to be angels of light. It is only through a strong love for t***h (T***h being the person of Jesus Christ), that one can overcome the traditions of men that make vain their worship of God. Overcoming traditions of men is just one of many of the common temptations known to man we must overcome in this life.

Following is just a small sample of scriptures teaching against necromancy like that practiced in Catholicism under the guise of communicating with Mary. This list, and many more, can be found at https://www.openbible.info/topics/necromancy

Leviticus 19:31 ESV
“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 ESV
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an a*********n to the Lord. And because of these a*********ns the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Isaiah 8:19 ESV
And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

2 Kings 21:6 ESV
And he burned his son as an offering and used fortune-telling and omens and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.

Leviticus 20:6 ESV
“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 20:27 ESV
“A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

1 Samuel 28:7-19 ESV
Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” ...

Revelation 21:8 ESV
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

1 Chronicles 10:13 ESV
So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the command of the Lord, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance.

Deuteronomy 18:10 ESV
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer

Deuteronomy 18:11 ESV
Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by dev****g themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Deuteronomy 18:9-14 ESV
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an a*********n to the Lord. And because of these a*********ns the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, ...

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 ESV
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an a*********n to the Lord. And because of these a*********ns the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

Isaiah 19:3 ESV
And the spirit of the Egyptians within them will be emptied out, and I will confound their counsel; and they will inquire of the idols and the sorcerers, and the mediums and the necromancers;

2 Corinthians 11:14 ESV
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

Romans 12:2 ESV
Do not be conformed to this world, but be t***sformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Revelation 22:15 ESV
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

John 16:13 ESV
When the Spirit of t***h comes, he will guide you into all the t***h, for he will not speak on his own authority, but wh**ever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

2 John 1:9-11 ESV
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned

If you pray to Jesus, then you are guilty of necromancy on the same basis. Catholics pray to Mary and other saints fro their INTERCESSION. WHy can you not understand this?

It all revolves around the nature of the after life.

You think that Catholic teachings are perversions of the t***h? What are yours?

I could scour The Bible for passages to reject yours but do not have the time.

Do you believe in angels? If so, you have to accept what Gabriel said to Mary. If not, yours is the perversion because you reject the entire New Testament.

And what were you indoctrinated with? Hatred of Catholics?

How's that?

Think about it now....I can pray for others because I am alive. There is no contradiction. When I die( or if Jesus returns first) that is the end of me praying for anybody. I'll either be caught up with Jesus or I'll be dead, asleep as Paul put it. I see this turning into a sword fight...not my intention...so, you tell ME what scripture you use to believe in speaking to the dead. What scripture tells you that Mary was supernatural? This belief about Mary and other things like infant baptism came about between the 2nd and 3rd centuries. However, it was only in 1854 that Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception to be doctrine, which is, I believe the basis for your belief that Mary was kept from sin by virtue of bearing Jesus. John Wesley held to this belief, and never wanted the Methodist church to leave the Anglican church, which was and is the Church of England, or Henry's church. This church is basically Catholic. John Calvin also believed in Mary. But for all their belief, there is NO scripture to back it up. (I am NOT a Calvinist, as I believe that Jesus shed his blood for all, everybody.) The Bible DOES say that ALL have fallen short of the glory of God, and I see no reason that Mary wouldn't be counted among "ALL".

If you pray to Jesus, then you are guilty of necromancy on the same basis. Catholics pray to Mary and other saints fro their INTERCESSION. WHy can you not understand this?

It all revolves around the nature of the after life.

You think that Catholic teachings are perversions of the t***h? What are yours?

I could scour The Bible for passages to reject yours but do not have the time.

Do you believe in angels? If so, you have to accept what Gabriel said to Mary. If not, yours is the perversion because you reject the entire New Testament.

And what were you indoctrinated with? Hatred of Catholics?

How's that?

PeeWee, Maximus & TommyRadd; I’ll deal with your apostasies, heresies, alternative interpretations of Scripture, fraudulent Scripture and distortions of history, as best I can. And I’ll do it in an intellectual brawl of my one against you three. I believe I am up to the task.

One of you intolerants asked where there was authorization for Popes. Check where Jesus said to Peter (despite his coming denials which you may have heard of) you are rock and upon this rock, I will build my church. (This is undeniable, even by you three with your mental l gymnastics.)

It should be obvious that he knew Peter was mortal and would die. Therefore, it would seem he knew there would have to be successors. (This is inference.)

As far as the move to Rome, Rome was the center of the known Western World. The next stop eastward was Baghdad, then Tehran, then China. Northward, Southward and Westward, there was nothing.

Jesus said the traditions of men make the worship of God in vain?
Is this another fantasy quote? I've nver even heard of this.
What you say is to Christianity is what National Socialism is to freedom.

You say that all that is necessary is the death & Resurrection of Jesus? What about the rest of our lives?

Did any of you never hear of The Sermon on the Mount where Jesus staed the the most important is to love your neighbor as yourself fo the love of God? Did you never hear of Him saying what you do for the lest of mine, you do for me?

This statement of yours, and pardon me if I’ ve forgotten which one of you wrote but I sispect all three of you believe it, opens the door for all manner of barbarity. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin and Pol Pot would be proud.

You cite all of your passages yet you see no forest, only your stunted, barren trees.

Let’s put it this way, I think any neutral observer would say, ‘Game. Set Match.”

And none of you has addressed my initial point. I’ve been down this road before with some other fundamentalist, anti-Catholic pagans in this venue before and you all fall into this same sophistry.

Don’t forget. It was us Catholics who had to suffer the persecutions under Rome and who bore most of the burden during the recently passed century under the yokes of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and Castro. Much of the Russian, Ukrainian and other eastern Orthodox denominations buckled. Oh, for sure some Christians came in for their horrors but it was The Catholics who were the primary targets. We suffered it & for our reward we’ve had to put up with this kind of nonsense.

I can't understand it because praying to dead people is found NOWHERE in the Bible, and as I said before, it's ADDING to the already ultimate sacrifice that Jesus made. Believing in Mary and other saints as intercession, infant baptism, and purgatory are NOT in any way part of the gospel.
You COULD scour the Bible for passages that reject what I have given to you, but you WILL NOT find any.
I DO believe in angels and Gabriel said that Mary had found favor with God, but he DID NOT say ANYWHERE that men would be able to pray to her after her death. There is NO perversion in what I have presented to you.
You MUST be a liberal because you started this thread seeking a pat on the back for your belief, but when people gave you the gospel, it is you that responded with anger. I won't respond to this anymore, but I'll leave you with this. I started out trying to be gentle, but here is what I see, and the Bible says he who hath an eye, let him see....it's as plain as the nose on anybody's face, that the Roman Catholic church was founded as a stopgap between the state losing power as Christendom rose in acceptance. That's why the RC church is famously wealthy, one of the biggest and most successful business in the world. Until you rid yourself of these created falsehoods, you will never be free to accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior. I pray that you can break your chains,and find Him.

You respond in anger, yet you present no history and you quote no scripture. When you say "us Catholics suffered under Rome" can you imagine where the name Roman Catholic even came from? The Romans who became Roman Catholics WERE the persecutors. Also the father of the Inquisition, and murderer of countless North and South American natives in the quest for gold.
It's easy to see for anybody who has eyes to see with, that as Christianity grew in numbers of believers, Rome dwindled in size and strength. Constantine saw the creation of the Roman Catholic church as a way for the weakened state to maintain the ultimate power over the populace. After all, the Romans had no problem with worshiping gods because they already had 12. If your feelings are hurt because we 3 have shown you the t***h....t***h that is EASY to find and to understand, and you're angry because we don't accept your belief, then you MUST be a liberal as you show the classic signs of liberalism. There is little hope here.

I am a libertarian from the libertarian wing of the conservative movement, a la Goldwater, Buckley, Reagan but have moved beyond them to Taft/Rothbard.

There are many things that can be inferred from The Bible. Mary was clearly different from every other woman in history and as Jesus’ mother, it can be inferred that she has a special place among all including an unusual place of influence on Jesus and through Him The Holy Trinity.

FYI, Rome is not simply the center for the Roman Catholoic Church but also for the Cyriac and other rites. It is repugnant for to you assert that
Your assertion that The Church served as a stopgap as Rome lost power is similarly repugnant.

And BTW maximus, tell me what you believe so that I can destroy it.
It’s so easy to criticize an assertion as you so glibly do.

I must admit that I wojn’t be gentle to people who think they are being gentle by casting the aspersions that you have.

If you don’t answer & tell us what you do believe, I will win this argument by default. Note, you must back every single assertion with a specific passage. Also, note you can’t use the seven books of wisdom from the Catholic Bible; you may ONLY use the KJV that forms the cornerstone for The Church of England and the Episcopalian Church that have accepted divorce, birth control, a******n and female priests and bishops.

That makes you complicit in 60,000,000 a******ns, by your own logic.

I try to enlighten, not to argue. If by this you feel you have won some argument, feel free to enjoy it. I've already told you what I believe, but just for you, I'll restate it...very simply, I believe that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. I believe that God was with us in the man Jesus. I believe that Jesus' purpose in coming here was to shed his blood for our sin debt. I believe He suffered terribly until God was satisfied that our debt was paid. I believe that He was buried and was in the earth for 3 days and 3 nights. I believe He arose on Sunday morning in a new body and alive forevermore. I believe that if we accept His payment, that we will receive the gift of eternal life and citizenship in Heaven. I believe that Jesus is the way, and the ONLY way to receive salvation. I want YOU to look up the scriptures in the KJV, because for one, you may learn something.

I'll leave you with this puzzle. If Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and arose on Sunday morning, how could He fulfill his own prophesy that he would spend 3 days and 3 nights in the earth? If you can tell me why Good Friday is the wrong day and on what day Jesus was actually crucified and why, I'll consider you a learned Bible scholar.

There is an emerging consensus that it was Thursday though some maintain it could even have been Wednesday.

Why are there no other records of a census for taxation under the emperor other than in The Bible?

Do you think that all that is necessary for salvation is Christ's crucifixion. And, for once a simple Yes or No is requested. Some qualifying is acceptable.