maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

No, Jesus doesn't give me carnal "things". I ask Jesus for help. I ask him for healing ( I have stage 4 liver and kidney disease, not to mention diabetes ). I ask him to heal others, especially those on our prayer list. I ask him to watch over our foreign missionaries...I can tell you this much...we have 2 missionaries under the watchful eyes of Islam. I ask him to watch over my church family. I ask for guidance for our government. I tell him that I love him and I thank him for his sacrifice. I ask for all those things in his name, as he instructed.
What does the blood of Jesus do for me? Or anybody for that matter? It saves you from eternal damnation. It's a one way ticket to heaven.
If his pain and suffering and blood is not the only way, then why make him go through all that? If other things are required for salvation, then Jesus died in vain.

When as a young child Jesus stayed behind in the temple. When Mary ( and Joseph) came back, Jesus rebuked his mother saying, "Should I not be about my father's business?" He also said this;

Matthew 12:46-50 King James Version (KJV)

46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

He said this on the day of crucifixion John 19:26-27

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].

Another time; John2:3-5
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it].

Now, we know that the t***slation of "woman" into our language doesn't give the correct image of what he meant. We know that it was a term of respect and endearment. How could he treat her any other way and keep the commandments? But it still set her aside from him.
I also disagree with the RCC explanation of what Jesus said to Mary and John. I believe that Mary was in Jesus' care, and knowing he was about to die, told John this is YOUR mother...take good care of her. And to Mary, he is your son. That much is obvious and makes much more sense than Mary is the mother of all.

I am sorry, but I never mentioned necromancy. I think it was Peewee.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

I answer this with my recent response about t***slations.

How do you know that this is precisely what He meant? There are several points

1. In what language did Jesus say this?

2. What was the language of John used to record it?

3. How many years after?

4. How many times was the original t***slated nad since when was it?

I could go on but you have to understand my point. Someone once said that poetry is what's lost in t***slation. Winston Churchill once said that England and America are two countries divided by a common language.

Even if He did say it and meant precisely what He said and nothing else, He didn't say there was no other way to pray.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Then why bother trying to live q good life?

Sorry about your kidney and liver disease and diabetes & I will hope & pray for you, at the vigil Mass starting at 5:30 PM and for the safety of your church missionaries. We have an interlude after the sermon and before the Consecration where we pray for our leaders, pope and bishop and then we add our personal intentions. You & they will be in mine.

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

Is not Greek to Latin still a t***slation?
If we're to believe that we have God's word, then we HAVE to believe that the Bible is exactly what God wanted it to be. Otherwise, he would be allowing us to be deceived and I don't believe that is possible (God is not the author of confusion...)

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

Thank you.

Here is the reason for living a good life and doing good works; ! Cornithians 3:11-15

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

We get rewards for good works and a good life ( AFTER SALVATION)...in fact, this happens at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

We may be discussing a distinction with no difference. To me salvation is the eternal reward that I have to work for. Jesus' death made all of us eligible for it but in no way guaranteed it.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Of course Greek to Latin is a t***slation. As far as the rest, the Bible is the Word of God but interpreting it is difficult.

There are nuances and we have to allow for a lot of variation in interpretation. Suffice it to say that evil exists and we shouldn't allow the Bible to become an instrument to divide us in our efforts to fight evil. It makes no sense to call Catholics or others on the side of Christ evil.

I don't think prayer is only done one way. The Lord's Prayer is fine but there are other ways.

There was a story we were told in grammar school about a juggler who was told to do the best he could for Jesus. He went and got his juggling pins and performed his act in front of an altar.

Like everyone else, I accept that I sin every day. To get down into detail and say another's method of worship is evil is evil itself.

I am content being Catholic and hope you are in your faith. We have had numerous councils over the years threshing out our dogmas.

To say we only emphasize certain things that suit us seems to be something that can be leveled at every denomination. Simply to take one thing Jesus said to level charges at anyone or any religion, is to lose sight of the forest for the trees. There are apocryphal gospels which our church fathers, including yours, have been justifiable to ignore.

I have read the apocryphal gospels and one of them paints a less than nice picture of a spiteful young Jesus. There is a story of yet another, of Judas, whose discovery years ago, has just been acknowledged.

I suggest that you look at franciscanmedia.org. Maybe you can pose your questions & challenges to them.

I went to our vigil mass last evening and again realized how much I enjoy the ceremony. The review of Christ's dinner, betrayal, crucifixion and resurrection never grows old.

I wish you the best and apologize if I flew off the handle but I misinterpreted Peewee's your response. You exhibited no malice as I have gotten from others on OPP on this subject.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

I just read the introduction to The Gospel of John in The New American Bible. It says that sholarship has noticed a big difference between most of this gospel and the final chapter(s) which they conclude is in a Greek style. Was it t***slated to wh**ever and then t***slated into English? What does that say if it was?
Was it the inerrant Word of God?

And this adds to my questions about the rest of The Bible so how can anyone level charges of evil at practitioners because they do one thing or another as part of their worship. The ultimate point is to live in accordance with the principles of Jesus.

For anyone, and by this I mean mostly fundamentalists, to say that Catholicism is inherently evil, is itself evil.

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

I've had a busy day. Up early for church ( I'm the music director), then home for a short nap, then back to church for music practice and Bible study, then off to work until 3:00 AM. That's why I'm slow responding.

Well, it seems that we have reached an impasse. This debate has been a big help to me. I've witnessed many, many times, but this is the first time I have given the gospel and that's important to me. The reason is, that I believe that once you are saved, you have a job to do for God...i.e. to spread the gospel. You probably know this but gospel means the good news. I tried to give you the good news.
I did it with kindness, I wasn't pushy, I didn't condemn you, and I appreciate you letting me try. In trying, I've come up with some questions about my own salvation. Nothing all that important, but still, I'd like to know so that if someone asks me about it, I have the Biblical answer for them.
I thought I knew the Bible pretty well ( especially since my father started preaching when I was 15), until I started going to the church I go to now, and for the last 7 years. My pastor is the BEST Bible scholar I have EVER heard. I've learned so much and it's straight out of the Bible. That is my wish;to be able to give the t***h right out of the Bible, untainted by opinion or bias.
Well, back to our debate...anything else I can say would be redundant. I will say this; I am absolutely certain that once stripped of denominational interpretations, the gospel is plain to see, pure and simple, easy to understand. It works in any language, in any time that has been or will be.
So, I wish you the best.