The Surprising Sayings of Jesus Christ 'Many False Prophets Will Arise and Deceive Many'
Dec 8, 2018 18:45:30 #
tNotMyPrez wrote:
Thanx, I may look into R. Zacharias sometime, however I've already researched extensive summaries of Aquinas' Summa contra Gentiles, so I believe I have a good enough background in apologetics. The difficulty I've found is when someone studies, understands, and chooses to move beyond, unless that someone is having a conversation with intellectuals or philosophers, it quickly devolves into fire and brimstone and burning in hell.
You'd probably like Ravi Zacharias. He is an intellectual and quite the philosopher. RC Sproul and John MacArthur are also very good. They all know scripture and historical contexts.
After I left Catholicism I was turned off by the fire and brimstone types.
Dec 9, 2018 08:58:52 #
SATAN'S COUNTERFEIT
CHURCH
Roman Catholicism
Founder: Emperor Constantine
Overview:
The Roman Catholic church, headquartered in Rome, Italy, has its own powerful City-State, the Vatican. The Roman Catholic church unofficially came into being in 312 A.D., at the time of the so-called "miraculous conversion" to Christianity of the Roman Emperor Constantine but he still worshipped the sun god. Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reins of his pagan priesthood to the Bishop of Rome. However, the family of Constantine did not give up the last vestige of his priesthood until after the disintegration of the Roman Empire – that being the title the emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood – Pontifex Maximus – a title which the popes would inherit. The popes also inherited Constantine's titles as the self-appointed civil head of the church – Summus Pontifex (Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Bishops).
Prior to the time of Constantine's "conversion," Christians were persecuted not so much for their profession of faith in Christ, but because they would not include pagan deities in their faith as well. Then, with Constantine's emphasis on making his new-found Christianity palatable to the heathen in the Empire, the "Christianization" of these pagan deities was facilitated. For example, pagan rituals and idols gradually took on Christian meanings and names and were incorporated into "Christian" worship (e.g., "saints" replaced the cult of pagan gods in both worship and as patrons of cities; mother/son statues were renamed Mary and Jesus; etc.), and pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holy days (e.g., the Roman Lupercalia and the feast of purification of Isis became the Feast of the Nativity; the Saturnalia celebrations were replaced by Christmas celebrations; an ancient festival of the dead was replaced by All Souls Day, rededicated to Christian heroes [now Halloween]; etc.). A transition had occurred – instead of being persecuted for failure to worship pagan deities, Christians who did not agree with the particular orthodoxy backed by the Emperor were now persecuted in the name of Christ! "Christianized" Rome had become the legitimate successor of pagan Rome! This is the sad origin of the Roman Catholic Church as it compromised from the very beginning with paganism and in doing so became a cult serving the creature (Mary) more than the creator (Jesus).
When Rome went from being pagan to Christian under Constantine, they had to find a replacement for the great mother of paganism. It was not until the time of Constantine that anyone began to look at Mary as a goddess. Since Mary was the mother of Jesus Christ, she was the most logical person to replace the pagan mother goddess. The pagans could continue their prayers and devotion to the mother goddess, only they would call her Mary. The pagans worshipped the mother as much or more than her son and this is exactly what the Roman Catholicism does. True Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped – not his mother. The fact remains that Jesus never hinted at the idea of Mary worship nor did any of the apostles. Worshipping the mother goddess along with her child took place centuries before Jesus Christ was ever born in many different parts of the world. In 431 A.D. Mary worship became an official doctrine of the church in at the Council of Ephesus.
Since the formation of the Roman Empire, the Roman emperors (including Constantine) held the office of Pontifex Maximus (Supreme Priest) and were worshipped by the pagans as gods. Emperor Gratian in 376 A.D. refused the title of Pontifex Maximus, and from then on it was bestowed upon the bishop of Rome. From hereon, the bishop of Rome was to be the Supreme Priest to the pagans and the head of the Christian church; the streams of paganism and Christianity flowed together under the leadership of Pontifex Maximus, ultimately to be called the Pope. The question remains, how can a man at the same time be the Pontifex Maximus which was the head of the pagan mysteries and the head of the church? Although the Roman Catholic church claims that Peter was the first Pope, it is strange that we never read any such claim by Peter. The fact that Jesus never instituted the office of Pope in his church during his earthly ministry plainly shows that the Pope is neither Bishop of bishops nor the successor of the apostle Peter.
One issue that is very damaging to idea of a Pope is the fact that some of the popes were so depraved, even people who professed no religion at all were ashamed of them. Looking into the history of the papacy, it is easy to see that not all popes were holy men. Accusations against them included but were not limited to blasphemy, simony (the buying and selling of the papal office), perjury, murder, adultery, intercourse with virgins and nuns, incest, sodomy, bestiality, robbery, idolatry, magic, infidelity, and gross and unnatural immorality. Historians, even Roman Catholic historians will even attest to the fact there have been many sinful popes. Therefore, if popes are supposed to be the "representatives of Christ" here on earth and they are living an immoral lifestyle, should their commands still be obeyed if they are living in sin? No, it would be hypocritical for them to make rulings and decrees, and yet this is exactly what has been done by the popes. Jesus never said, "do as I say, not as I do". On the contrary, Jesus Christ led a holy life and we should follow His example. Here are a few examples:
Pope Sergius III obtained the papal office by murder. He lived openly with a woman who bore him several illegitimate children. His reign began a period known as "the rule of the harlots".
Pope John XII was an immoral man and whose palace was likened to a brothel. The bishop of Cremona, Luitprand said, "No honest lady dared to show herself in public, for Pope John had no respect either for single girls, married women, or widows – they were sure to be defiled by him, even on the tombs of the holy apostles, Peter and Paul."
Pope Boniface VIII maintained his position through lavish distribution of stolen money. He was quoted saying, "to enjoy oneself and lie carnally with women or with boys is no more a sin than rubbing one's hands together."
Pope John XXII was said to have seduced and violated three hundred nuns. He must have had a strong and insatiable libido for he kept a harem of no less than two hundred girls. He was called "the most depraved criminal who ever sat on the papal throne." A Vatican record says this about him, "His lordship, Pope John, committed perversity with the wife of his brother, incest with holy nuns, intercourse with virgins, adultery with the married, and all sorts of sex crimes... wholly given to sleep and other carnal desires, totally adverse to the life and teaching of Christ... he was publicly called the Devil incarnate."
Pope Pius II was said to have been the father of many illegitimate children. He spoke openly of the methods he used to seduce women and he encouraged young men to also seduce women and even offered to instruct them in methods of self-indulgence.
Pope Sixtus IV financed his wars by selling church offices to the highest bidders. He used the papacy to enrich himself and his family, for no less than eight cardinals were his nephews, some being given the position of cardinal even as a boy.
Pope Alexander VI won the election of the papacy by bribery. He lived with a woman with whom he had a daughter; whom afterward he committed incest with and produced five children. He also lived in public incest with his two sisters. He conducted a sex orgy in the Vatican in which he had a banquet featuring fifty nude girls who danced and serviced the guests – and even offered prizes to the man who could engage in sexual intercourse the most times.
Martin Luther himself also witnessed that Rome with its popes was anything but a holy city. He was quoted as saying, "No one can imagine what sins and infamous actions are committed in Rome, they must be seen and heard to be believed." It has been said, "If there be a hell, Rome is built over it." Having shown just a few examples of the corruption and wickedness that has existed in the lives of the popes; this evidence seriously undermines the belief of "apostolic succession," the claim that the Roman Catholic church is the one "true" church supposedly claiming to trace a line of pope back to Peter, since Peter himself stressed the importance of holiness. It is important to note that pagan popes can be traced back to Babylon but no Christian popes existed until Constantine in 312 A.D. declared himself to be Pope.
The popes were not the only ones that struggled with sexual misconduct; the clergy were just as guilty. When the doctrine of celibacy began to be taught, many clergy were married men. An edict was established in 315 A.D. that forbade a priest to remarry if his wife were to die. In 386 A.D. another edict came into being, allowing priests to be married but forbidding them to have sexual intercourse with their wives. Although this edict was in effect, a large number of clergy openly took wives and fathered children. Some monasteries and nunneries were known in history to be so bad that they actually had a worse reputation than the brothels. The violations by priests were so bad at one point that even female animals were not allowed on monastery property! Priests were urged to be chaste, and if they failed, at least be careful. With this man-made tradition imposed upon them, it made an already difficult job of the confessional even more difficult. The confessional was where sins had to be confessed specifically and in detail so that the priest could render judgment and offer forgiveness of sins. It is not hard to see that the outcome of girls and women and even boys confessing their moral weaknesses and desires to unmarried priests could readily result in widespread abuse. The Roman Catholic church has been lately rocked by one scandal after another of sexual abuse by priests.
The doctrine of a celibate priesthood that has done more damage than good since its inception. At the beginning of creation, God did not want Adam to be alone and created Eve for him. According to the Bible, it was God's design for a husband and wife to become one flesh and to cleave to each other, and yet the Roman Catholic church says otherwise. They have another man-made doctrine condemning priests to celibacy, something which God never intended. Bishops (i.e. pastors, priests) according the Bible are supposed the husband of one wife (I Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6), Roman Catholicism adds to the Bible by placing an undue burden upon the clergy by forbidding them to marry (I Timothy 4:1-3), the Bible calls this a "doctrine of devils!" It is important to note that the priests of pagan Rome were also required to be celibate, and this tradition dates back all the way to Babylon and Semiramis several thousand years before. Even the idea of confessing to a priest came from Babylon. It is from recorded Babylonian confessions that historians have been able to come up with conclusions about the Babylonian concepts of right and wrong. The priests of pagan Rome were called "fathers," but Jesus said to call no man "father." (Matthew 23:9-12) From what source did the Roman Catholic custom of calling a priest by this title come from, Jesus or the pagans? Jesus spoke against flattering titles to his disciples, he wanted them to treat each other equally. Jesus meant for God the Father to receive all glory, not men. It is plain to see that the majority of the traditions of the Roman Catholic church are man-made and of pagan origins. An intellectually honest search will show the pagan roots of the Roman Catholic church.
The cardinals were the chief clergy in pagan Rome and the word in Latin means "hinge," hence they were pivotal serving as the priests of Janus who was the pagan god of doors and hinges. He was known as the "opener and shutter," and we can understand that better by the words of Jesus in Revelation 3:7-8. Jesus was the true opener, Janus was a counterfeit. These pagan priests wore the color red because it symbolized fire, they were the keepers of the sacred fire and accordingly were known as the "Flamens." All throughout the Bible, the color red is associated with sin. (Isaiah 1:18; Ezekiel 23:14-15; Revelation 17:4) With some knowledge of history, it is easy to see the merge of Babylonian paganism and Christianity and how they became one.
Roman Catholics who read the Bible will soon discover that many Catholic teachings and practices are specifically forbidden by Jesus Christ Himself. Worship is vain when it is based upon the commandments of men rather than the Word of God. Valid tradition is based upon Scripture and confirms it. Vain tradition is based upon man's teachings and violates it. In Roman Catholicism, tradition is consistently elevated above the Scripture. The result is vain worship, and no matter how sincere, it makes the commandment of God of no effect – a very serious matter.
The last few popes have expanded the ecumenical (worldwide) emphasis in the Roman Catholic Church to unprecedented heights. All unity purchased at the expense of doctrinal purity is satanic and deceptive. II Corinthians 6:14-18; Ephesians 5:11; II Timothy 3:1-17, 4:1-8. All who join hands in ecumenical fellowship with those who preach a false Gospel are under God's curse. (Galatians 1:6-10)
People do not realize that counterfeit religions, like counterfeit money, must resemble the genuine in order to deceive those who lack spiritual discernment or those who have not had the opportunity or taken the time to carefully compare all the major tenets of Roman Catholicism with the truth of God's Word. Only when one compares men's words with Scripture will it become obvious that Roman Catholicism is a carefully crafted counterfeit, not the pure, genuine, Biblical faith.
Jesus Christ plainly taught that Mary was on the same plane with all other Christians who would do the will of God. In Mark 3:31-35 we read:
"There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and
FULL TEXT CLICK LINK
http://eaec.org/cults/romancatholic.htm
CHURCH
Roman Catholicism
Founder: Emperor Constantine
Overview:
The Roman Catholic church, headquartered in Rome, Italy, has its own powerful City-State, the Vatican. The Roman Catholic church unofficially came into being in 312 A.D., at the time of the so-called "miraculous conversion" to Christianity of the Roman Emperor Constantine but he still worshipped the sun god. Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reins of his pagan priesthood to the Bishop of Rome. However, the family of Constantine did not give up the last vestige of his priesthood until after the disintegration of the Roman Empire – that being the title the emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood – Pontifex Maximus – a title which the popes would inherit. The popes also inherited Constantine's titles as the self-appointed civil head of the church – Summus Pontifex (Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Bishops).
Prior to the time of Constantine's "conversion," Christians were persecuted not so much for their profession of faith in Christ, but because they would not include pagan deities in their faith as well. Then, with Constantine's emphasis on making his new-found Christianity palatable to the heathen in the Empire, the "Christianization" of these pagan deities was facilitated. For example, pagan rituals and idols gradually took on Christian meanings and names and were incorporated into "Christian" worship (e.g., "saints" replaced the cult of pagan gods in both worship and as patrons of cities; mother/son statues were renamed Mary and Jesus; etc.), and pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holy days (e.g., the Roman Lupercalia and the feast of purification of Isis became the Feast of the Nativity; the Saturnalia celebrations were replaced by Christmas celebrations; an ancient festival of the dead was replaced by All Souls Day, rededicated to Christian heroes [now Halloween]; etc.). A transition had occurred – instead of being persecuted for failure to worship pagan deities, Christians who did not agree with the particular orthodoxy backed by the Emperor were now persecuted in the name of Christ! "Christianized" Rome had become the legitimate successor of pagan Rome! This is the sad origin of the Roman Catholic Church as it compromised from the very beginning with paganism and in doing so became a cult serving the creature (Mary) more than the creator (Jesus).
When Rome went from being pagan to Christian under Constantine, they had to find a replacement for the great mother of paganism. It was not until the time of Constantine that anyone began to look at Mary as a goddess. Since Mary was the mother of Jesus Christ, she was the most logical person to replace the pagan mother goddess. The pagans could continue their prayers and devotion to the mother goddess, only they would call her Mary. The pagans worshipped the mother as much or more than her son and this is exactly what the Roman Catholicism does. True Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped – not his mother. The fact remains that Jesus never hinted at the idea of Mary worship nor did any of the apostles. Worshipping the mother goddess along with her child took place centuries before Jesus Christ was ever born in many different parts of the world. In 431 A.D. Mary worship became an official doctrine of the church in at the Council of Ephesus.
Since the formation of the Roman Empire, the Roman emperors (including Constantine) held the office of Pontifex Maximus (Supreme Priest) and were worshipped by the pagans as gods. Emperor Gratian in 376 A.D. refused the title of Pontifex Maximus, and from then on it was bestowed upon the bishop of Rome. From hereon, the bishop of Rome was to be the Supreme Priest to the pagans and the head of the Christian church; the streams of paganism and Christianity flowed together under the leadership of Pontifex Maximus, ultimately to be called the Pope. The question remains, how can a man at the same time be the Pontifex Maximus which was the head of the pagan mysteries and the head of the church? Although the Roman Catholic church claims that Peter was the first Pope, it is strange that we never read any such claim by Peter. The fact that Jesus never instituted the office of Pope in his church during his earthly ministry plainly shows that the Pope is neither Bishop of bishops nor the successor of the apostle Peter.
One issue that is very damaging to idea of a Pope is the fact that some of the popes were so depraved, even people who professed no religion at all were ashamed of them. Looking into the history of the papacy, it is easy to see that not all popes were holy men. Accusations against them included but were not limited to blasphemy, simony (the buying and selling of the papal office), perjury, murder, adultery, intercourse with virgins and nuns, incest, sodomy, bestiality, robbery, idolatry, magic, infidelity, and gross and unnatural immorality. Historians, even Roman Catholic historians will even attest to the fact there have been many sinful popes. Therefore, if popes are supposed to be the "representatives of Christ" here on earth and they are living an immoral lifestyle, should their commands still be obeyed if they are living in sin? No, it would be hypocritical for them to make rulings and decrees, and yet this is exactly what has been done by the popes. Jesus never said, "do as I say, not as I do". On the contrary, Jesus Christ led a holy life and we should follow His example. Here are a few examples:
Pope Sergius III obtained the papal office by murder. He lived openly with a woman who bore him several illegitimate children. His reign began a period known as "the rule of the harlots".
Pope John XII was an immoral man and whose palace was likened to a brothel. The bishop of Cremona, Luitprand said, "No honest lady dared to show herself in public, for Pope John had no respect either for single girls, married women, or widows – they were sure to be defiled by him, even on the tombs of the holy apostles, Peter and Paul."
Pope Boniface VIII maintained his position through lavish distribution of stolen money. He was quoted saying, "to enjoy oneself and lie carnally with women or with boys is no more a sin than rubbing one's hands together."
Pope John XXII was said to have seduced and violated three hundred nuns. He must have had a strong and insatiable libido for he kept a harem of no less than two hundred girls. He was called "the most depraved criminal who ever sat on the papal throne." A Vatican record says this about him, "His lordship, Pope John, committed perversity with the wife of his brother, incest with holy nuns, intercourse with virgins, adultery with the married, and all sorts of sex crimes... wholly given to sleep and other carnal desires, totally adverse to the life and teaching of Christ... he was publicly called the Devil incarnate."
Pope Pius II was said to have been the father of many illegitimate children. He spoke openly of the methods he used to seduce women and he encouraged young men to also seduce women and even offered to instruct them in methods of self-indulgence.
Pope Sixtus IV financed his wars by selling church offices to the highest bidders. He used the papacy to enrich himself and his family, for no less than eight cardinals were his nephews, some being given the position of cardinal even as a boy.
Pope Alexander VI won the election of the papacy by bribery. He lived with a woman with whom he had a daughter; whom afterward he committed incest with and produced five children. He also lived in public incest with his two sisters. He conducted a sex orgy in the Vatican in which he had a banquet featuring fifty nude girls who danced and serviced the guests – and even offered prizes to the man who could engage in sexual intercourse the most times.
Martin Luther himself also witnessed that Rome with its popes was anything but a holy city. He was quoted as saying, "No one can imagine what sins and infamous actions are committed in Rome, they must be seen and heard to be believed." It has been said, "If there be a hell, Rome is built over it." Having shown just a few examples of the corruption and wickedness that has existed in the lives of the popes; this evidence seriously undermines the belief of "apostolic succession," the claim that the Roman Catholic church is the one "true" church supposedly claiming to trace a line of pope back to Peter, since Peter himself stressed the importance of holiness. It is important to note that pagan popes can be traced back to Babylon but no Christian popes existed until Constantine in 312 A.D. declared himself to be Pope.
The popes were not the only ones that struggled with sexual misconduct; the clergy were just as guilty. When the doctrine of celibacy began to be taught, many clergy were married men. An edict was established in 315 A.D. that forbade a priest to remarry if his wife were to die. In 386 A.D. another edict came into being, allowing priests to be married but forbidding them to have sexual intercourse with their wives. Although this edict was in effect, a large number of clergy openly took wives and fathered children. Some monasteries and nunneries were known in history to be so bad that they actually had a worse reputation than the brothels. The violations by priests were so bad at one point that even female animals were not allowed on monastery property! Priests were urged to be chaste, and if they failed, at least be careful. With this man-made tradition imposed upon them, it made an already difficult job of the confessional even more difficult. The confessional was where sins had to be confessed specifically and in detail so that the priest could render judgment and offer forgiveness of sins. It is not hard to see that the outcome of girls and women and even boys confessing their moral weaknesses and desires to unmarried priests could readily result in widespread abuse. The Roman Catholic church has been lately rocked by one scandal after another of sexual abuse by priests.
The doctrine of a celibate priesthood that has done more damage than good since its inception. At the beginning of creation, God did not want Adam to be alone and created Eve for him. According to the Bible, it was God's design for a husband and wife to become one flesh and to cleave to each other, and yet the Roman Catholic church says otherwise. They have another man-made doctrine condemning priests to celibacy, something which God never intended. Bishops (i.e. pastors, priests) according the Bible are supposed the husband of one wife (I Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6), Roman Catholicism adds to the Bible by placing an undue burden upon the clergy by forbidding them to marry (I Timothy 4:1-3), the Bible calls this a "doctrine of devils!" It is important to note that the priests of pagan Rome were also required to be celibate, and this tradition dates back all the way to Babylon and Semiramis several thousand years before. Even the idea of confessing to a priest came from Babylon. It is from recorded Babylonian confessions that historians have been able to come up with conclusions about the Babylonian concepts of right and wrong. The priests of pagan Rome were called "fathers," but Jesus said to call no man "father." (Matthew 23:9-12) From what source did the Roman Catholic custom of calling a priest by this title come from, Jesus or the pagans? Jesus spoke against flattering titles to his disciples, he wanted them to treat each other equally. Jesus meant for God the Father to receive all glory, not men. It is plain to see that the majority of the traditions of the Roman Catholic church are man-made and of pagan origins. An intellectually honest search will show the pagan roots of the Roman Catholic church.
The cardinals were the chief clergy in pagan Rome and the word in Latin means "hinge," hence they were pivotal serving as the priests of Janus who was the pagan god of doors and hinges. He was known as the "opener and shutter," and we can understand that better by the words of Jesus in Revelation 3:7-8. Jesus was the true opener, Janus was a counterfeit. These pagan priests wore the color red because it symbolized fire, they were the keepers of the sacred fire and accordingly were known as the "Flamens." All throughout the Bible, the color red is associated with sin. (Isaiah 1:18; Ezekiel 23:14-15; Revelation 17:4) With some knowledge of history, it is easy to see the merge of Babylonian paganism and Christianity and how they became one.
Roman Catholics who read the Bible will soon discover that many Catholic teachings and practices are specifically forbidden by Jesus Christ Himself. Worship is vain when it is based upon the commandments of men rather than the Word of God. Valid tradition is based upon Scripture and confirms it. Vain tradition is based upon man's teachings and violates it. In Roman Catholicism, tradition is consistently elevated above the Scripture. The result is vain worship, and no matter how sincere, it makes the commandment of God of no effect – a very serious matter.
The last few popes have expanded the ecumenical (worldwide) emphasis in the Roman Catholic Church to unprecedented heights. All unity purchased at the expense of doctrinal purity is satanic and deceptive. II Corinthians 6:14-18; Ephesians 5:11; II Timothy 3:1-17, 4:1-8. All who join hands in ecumenical fellowship with those who preach a false Gospel are under God's curse. (Galatians 1:6-10)
People do not realize that counterfeit religions, like counterfeit money, must resemble the genuine in order to deceive those who lack spiritual discernment or those who have not had the opportunity or taken the time to carefully compare all the major tenets of Roman Catholicism with the truth of God's Word. Only when one compares men's words with Scripture will it become obvious that Roman Catholicism is a carefully crafted counterfeit, not the pure, genuine, Biblical faith.
Jesus Christ plainly taught that Mary was on the same plane with all other Christians who would do the will of God. In Mark 3:31-35 we read:
"There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and
FULL TEXT CLICK LINK
http://eaec.org/cults/romancatholic.htm
Dec 9, 2018 16:53:49 #
jack sequim wa wrote:
...(snipped)...Only when one compares men's words with Scripture will it become obvious that Roman Catholicism is a carefully crafted counterfeit, not the pure, genuine, Biblical faith...
It's very interesting to watch christians use their individually slanted confirmation bias in order to fight amongst themselves as to whom they think are the pure followers of Jesus - - and (surprise!) it's ALWAYS their own !!!...
The only difficulty with jack's statement, in this case, is that "Scripture" IS "men's words" - - so he is saying:
...when one compares "men's words" with "men's words"...
M-E-A-N-I-N-G-L-E-S-S !!!
Dec 9, 2018 17:04:52 #
Dec 9, 2018 17:13:40 #
tNotMyPrez wrote:
It's very interesting to watch christians use thei... (show quote)
You have no basis from which to derive conclusions as a secularists. No offense intended, it's that your reply is revealing of your knowledge base.
The word of God is inspired by God as infallible to man. The authors were inspired by the Holy spirit.
The argument, "is the Bible the Word of God". That would be a discussion on another forum, or with another Christian as my time is to limited right now.
Thanks for engaging
Dec 9, 2018 17:31:04 #
jack sequim wa wrote:
You have no basis from which to derive conclusions as a secularists. No offense intended, it's that your reply is revealing of your knowledge base.
The word of God is inspired by God as infallible to man. The authors were inspired by the Holy spirit.
The argument, "is the Bible the Word of God". That would be a discussion on another forum, or with another Christian as my time is to limited right now.
Thanks for engaging
The word of God is inspired by God as infallible to man. The authors were inspired by the Holy spirit.
The argument, "is the Bible the Word of God". That would be a discussion on another forum, or with another Christian as my time is to limited right now.
Thanks for engaging
Pardon me jack, but you neither know enough about me to label me a secularist, nor do you know what my knowledge base is in order to boldly declare that I have no basis from which to derive conclusions - - you happen to be in error on both accounts.
I simply do not accept your belief system that the authors of the bible were inspired by god or the holy spirit - - the bible was written BY men, FOR men - - and even though there may be many others who follow your beliefs along with you, it is nonetheless ultimately just a belief system, therefore opinion.
Dec 9, 2018 17:39:16 #
Dec 9, 2018 17:39:44 #
Rose42 wrote:
Correction - it's God's word vs men's word.
No Rose, you can't correct an opinion by saying that your opinion supersedes anyone else's.
I really do understand how you believe that it's god's word, but that is your religious opinion and there is no proof - - granted that there exists the opinions of other religious believers, such as yourself, but that gives no weight to what you like to state as declarative fact.
Dec 9, 2018 18:12:09 #
tNotMyPrez wrote:
I simply do not accept your belief system that the authors of the bible were inspired by god or the holy spirit
I simply do not accept your belief system that the authors of the bible were inspired by god or the holy spirit
Thats what makes you secular.
Dec 9, 2018 18:27:24 #
Rose42 wrote:
Thats what makes you secular.
No it does not - - I can understand how, in your narrow christian outlook, you might believe that you can relegate me to that cubbyhole, but you can't...
Here, I'll give you the primary Oxford dictionary definition:
"Not connected with religious or spiritual matters."
As you know Rose, I have declared myself to be non-christian, but non-christian does not equal secular.
Dec 9, 2018 18:38:38 #
tNotMyPrez wrote:
It's very interesting to watch christians use thei... (show quote)
I'll be succinct tNotMyPrez. Maybe you should change your name tNotMyGod?
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Dec 9, 2018 19:00:41 #
tNotMyPrez wrote:
No it does not - - I can understand how, in your narrow christian outlook, you might believe that you can relegate me to that cubbyhole, but you can't...
I've been using it wrong. I'll use non-Christian instead.
Dec 9, 2018 19:10:12 #
mwdegutis wrote:
I'll be succinct tNotMyPrez. Maybe you should change your name tNotMyGod?
Geezzz, whyever would you feel compelled to suggest that - - is "t" YOUR god ???
He CERTAINLY is NOT mine, but I would never feel the need to assert that in an ID with a jerk proven to be a liar liar, pants on fire, even if he hoodwinked most of the evangelicals to put him in the WH...
Dec 9, 2018 19:13:21 #
Rose42 wrote:
I've been using it wrong. I'll use non-Christian instead.
Not wrong Rose, the Christian meaning is a secondary usage, but I'd think you'd want to be cautious about a narrow interpretation when characterizing non-christians.
Dec 9, 2018 19:30:21 #
mwdegutis wrote:
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Succinct does not equate to accurate...
As far as proof goes, it's neither very logical nor mindful of you to use scripture in order to try to prove scripture, particularly to non-believers...
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