Singularity wrote:
Over centuries the concept of morality and ethics, good vs evil, has been a slippery one as it falls in the realm of subjective experience. I am by no means an expert or scholar in this arena, but I can offer some musings.
We are born helpless and dependent. At first, we accept external standards and conform to sets of rules based on our culture, society, family, and institutions like religion, law and politics. As we grow and mature and continue to experience life we can either continue to accept an external standard of morality and ethics such as a set of rules and laws or religious principles, or continue to logically question, develop and revise our personal concept of morality. This is not, in my opinion, an either/or proposition but rather a continuum wherein our reliance on one method or the other is ongoing and fluidly changing as we grow and develop new sk**ls and acquire new information.
Different people have different levels of tolerance for change and the need for constant revision versus permanence and possible stagnation. I suspect it is this aspect which gives rise to debate and tension among different individuals and groups.
As far as defining an act as moral or not, I suspect it may be, as has been said of pornography, I can't give you an exact definition, but I know it when I see it.
Over centuries the concept of morality and ethics,... (
show quote)
That was a nice way of putting the issue.
Floyd Brown wrote:
With human inter actions some actions are good for the group other actions have less value or of bad value.
So groups inter act & become larger groups & what is good for the larger groups becomes the standard.
It is not that we seek to be moral or immoral. We just seek to do the things that are best for the most of the group.
Then we judge that what we are doing as being the better way to do things. Which we label as being moral.
Just putting the words in a different way but hoping that it says much the same thing.
With human inter actions some actions are good for... (
show quote)
This would be a description of the process of living and learning, revising and confirming priciples for governing behavior which become accepted by the larger society as a permanent rule of thumb, but could be revised in light of further knowlege or experience. It may be that the more a principle for determining behavior is tested and found useful, the more permanently fixed it becomes.
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
You quoted them for what purpose?
I suspect because you wished to propagate the twisted concepts contained therein.
"Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you, and therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him." Isaiah 30:18 ESV
"Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause." Isaiah 1:17 ESV
Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another," Zechariah 7:9 ESV
In the three examples above, it is quite clear, if we are to believe the Bible, that mercy and forgiveness, kindness and love are instrinsic qualities of Justice. This is so because "God is love" and justice merely a characteristic of love. Love is the law in the Bible. Justice, as a facet of love, functions to restore relationships between people and God. Justice is first and foremost to be restorative, which helps regain the peace and discourage future harm.
Justice is also quite clearly shown to be caring for the widows and orphans. What law is being applied here? Love. Rendering true judgments is showing kindness and mercy. What law is being applied here? Love.
Singularity wrote:
Over centuries the concept of morality and ethics, good vs evil, has been a slippery one as it falls in the realm of subjective experience. I am by no means an expert or scholar in this arena, but I can offer some musings.
We are born helpless and dependent. At first, we accept external standards and conform to sets of rules based on our culture, society, family, and institutions like religion, law and politics. As we grow and mature and continue to experience life we can either continue to accept an external standard of morality and ethics such as a set of rules and laws or religious principles, or continue to logically question, develop and revise our personal concept of morality. This is not, in my opinion, an either/or proposition but rather a continuum wherein our reliance on one method or the other is ongoing and fluidly changing as we grow and develop new sk**ls and acquire new information.
Different people have different levels of tolerance for change and the need for constant revision versus permanence and possible stagnation. I suspect it is this aspect which gives rise to debate and tension among different individuals and groups.
As far as defining an act as moral or not, I suspect it may be, as has been said of pornography, I can't give you an exact definition, but I know it when I see it.
Over centuries the concept of morality and ethics,... (
show quote)
Maybe you should just give us the list so that we will know what is immoral. If you can know something is immoral, you should let the rest of us know either what things are immoral, or how you know it when you see it.
rumitoid wrote:
"Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you, and therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him." Isaiah 30:18 ESV
"Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause." Isaiah 1:17 ESV
Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another," Zechariah 7:9 ESV
In the three examples above, it is quite clear, if we are to believe the Bible, that mercy and forgiveness, kindness and love are instrinsic qualities of Justice. This is so because "God is love" and justice merely a characteristic of love. Love is the law in the Bible. Justice, as a facet of love, functions to restore relationships between people and God. Justice is first and foremost to be restorative, which helps regain the peace and discourage future harm.
Justice is also quite clearly shown to be caring for the widows and orphans. What law is being applied here? Love. Rendering true judgments is showing kindness and mercy. What law is being applied here? Love.
"Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to y... (
show quote)
"Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law." Romans 13 : 8
Singularity wrote:
"Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law." Romans 13 : 8
Don't stop there.
Romans 13:9-
9 For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet, and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
_________________
Love doesn't just mean be nice and warm and fuzzy. It involves and includes keeping the commandments. Fulfilling the law, obeying the commandments is the method of expressing love.
jay-are wrote:
Don't stop there.
Romans 13:9-
9 For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet, and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
_________________
Love doesn't just mean be nice and warm and fuzzy. It involves and includes keeping the commandments. Fulfilling the law, obeying the commandments is the method of expressing love.
Don't stop there. br br Romans 13:9- br br 9 F... (
show quote)
You not commit adultery or wh**ever because of love. Therefore, if you love you not do these things. These are not rules to loving; these are the results of loving. If you have love, all commandments are preciously kept for love is the law, the one and only law.
rumitoid wrote:
You not commit adultery or wh**ever because of love. Therefore, if you love you not do these things. These are not rules to loving; these are the results of loving. If you have love, all commandments are preciously kept for love is the law, the one and only law.
So you are disagreeing with Romans 13:9, is that right?
jay-are wrote:
Maybe you should just give us the list so that we will know what is immoral. If you can know something is immoral, you should let the rest of us know either what things are immoral, or how you know it when you see it.
If I make the list do I get to be a goddess with a capital G!?!
Seriously!?! I have trouble finding my car keys some days, much less the 'list.' LOL! The point being, as this is a subjective process, each persons list may be as individualized as a fingerprint. Each different, but each functioning to cover the fingertips to keep your insides from running out or outside stuff from getting inside.
If you need a list, you must find it in your world or develop it for yourself, then decide for yourself how rigid or fluid a process for growth or revision you prefer.
jay-are wrote:
So you are disagreeing with Romans 13:9, is that right?
How on earth do you get that deduction? What I said is stated here: it is summed up in this saying, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
rumitoid wrote:
How on earth do you get that deduction?
What deduction? It was a question. I am asking if that is what you meant.
Singularity wrote:
This would be a description of the process of living and learning, revising and confirming priciples for governing behavior which become accepted by the larger society as a permanent rule of thumb, but could be revised in light of further knowlege or experience. It may be that the more a principle for determining behavior is tested and found useful, the more permanently fixed it becomes.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Singularity wrote:
This would be a description of the process of living and learning, revising and confirming priciples for governing behavior which become accepted by the larger society as a permanent rule of thumb, but could be revised in light of further knowlege or experience. It may be that the more a principle for determining behavior is tested and found useful, the more permanently fixed it becomes.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
rumitoid wrote:
How on earth do you get that deduction? What I said is stated here: it is summed up in this saying, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
But Romans 13:9 says that you love your neighbor by not violating the commandments. Does it not?
Do you not agree that you love your neighbor by not violating the commandments?
jay-are wrote:
What deduction? It was a question. I am asking if that is what you meant.
How on earth can you even ask if I am disagreeing with Romans 13:9 is my question?
If you want to reply, then
register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.