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"To be just and righteous."
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Apr 30, 2014 10:46:52   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
Is this a good way to look at what we should stand for.

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Apr 30, 2014 11:08:57   #
skott Loc: Bama
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
Is this a good way to look at what we should stand for.


Neither side is that.

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Apr 30, 2014 11:17:15   #
rumitoid
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
Is this a good way to look at what we should stand for.


Justice comes in two varieties: Retributive, which has been practiced for the entire length of human existence, and Restorative, which was introduced around 2000 years ago by Jesus and is probably the most difficult aspect to both grasp and do. Mercy and forgiveness for all, no matter what?

"Turning the other cheek" is part of Restorative justice. "Turning the other cheek" is not doing nothing in the face of a personal injustice: it is showing the clear and distinct difference between what is the world and what is of God by remaining kind and gentle to those who would harm us. The same is true of walking "an extra mile." The Romans by law could force those in occupied countries to carry a load for a mile. Jesus responded to this tyranny by saying walk "an extra mile."

It would be nice to pick and choose what we like and feel we can do out of the Bible; unfortunately it is one of those all or nothing things.

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Apr 30, 2014 11:19:36   #
skott Loc: Bama
 
rumitoid wrote:
Justice comes in two varieties: Retributive, which has been practiced for the entire length of human existence, and Restorative, which was introduced around 2000 years ago by Jesus and is probably the most difficult aspect to both grasp and do. Mercy and forgiveness for all, no matter what?

"Turning the other cheek" is part of Restorative justice. "Turning the other cheek" is not doing nothing in the face of a personal injustice: it is showing the clear and distinct difference between what is the world and what is of God by remaining kind and gentle to those who would harm us. The same is true of walking "an extra mile." The Romans by law could force those in occupied countries to carry a load for a mile. Jesus responded to this tyranny by saying walk "an extra mile."

It would be nice to pick and choose what we like and feel we can do out of the Bible; unfortunately it is one of those all or nothing things.
Justice comes in two varieties: Retributive, which... (show quote)


Yeah it ain't gonna happen!

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Apr 30, 2014 11:34:08   #
rumitoid
 
skott wrote:
Yeah it ain't gonna happen!


Does what Jesus has to say on this topic sound more liberal or Conservative?

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Apr 30, 2014 11:45:44   #
skott Loc: Bama
 
rumitoid wrote:
Does what Jesus has to say on this topic sound more liberal or Conservative?


When Jesus spoke it seemed more Liberal to me. Some of the apostles seem more conservative.

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Apr 30, 2014 12:18:43   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
rumitoid wrote:
Justice comes in two varieties: Retributive, which has been practiced for the entire length of human existence, and Restorative, which was introduced around 2000 years ago by Jesus and is probably the most difficult aspect to both grasp and do. Mercy and forgiveness for all, no matter what?

"Turning the other cheek" is part of Restorative justice. "Turning the other cheek" is not doing nothing in the face of a personal injustice: it is showing the clear and distinct difference between what is the world and what is of God by remaining kind and gentle to those who would harm us. The same is true of walking "an extra mile." The Romans by law could force those in occupied countries to carry a load for a mile. Jesus responded to this tyranny by saying walk "an extra mile."

It would be nice to pick and choose what we like and feel we can do out of the Bible; unfortunately it is one of those all or nothing things.
Justice comes in two varieties: Retributive, which... (show quote)


Justice: Application of law.

It is not restorative nor retributive. It is applying the law to the situation.

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Apr 30, 2014 12:43:53   #
skott Loc: Bama
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Justice: Application of law.

It is not restorative nor retributive. It is applying the law to the situation.


Not true, some laws are unjust.

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Apr 30, 2014 12:45:09   #
rumitoid
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Justice: Application of law.

It is not restorative nor retributive. It is applying the law to the situation.


God's law is loving our neighbor, showing mercy and forgiveness for all harm done., restorative. Man's law is punishment for harm done, retributive. Retribution has been seen as giving comfort to the aggrieved party; Restoration is seen as the loving act of God's servant, who should always be looking to bring others into the kingdom.

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Apr 30, 2014 12:54:03   #
skott Loc: Bama
 
rumitoid wrote:
God's law is loving our neighbor, showing mercy and forgiveness for all harm done., restorative. Man's law is punishment for harm done, retributive. Retribution has been seen as giving comfort to the aggrieved party; Restoration is seen as the loving act of God's servant, who should always be looking to bring others into the kingdom.


He can't grasp the idea.

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Apr 30, 2014 13:25:26   #
rumitoid
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Justice: Application of law.

It is not restorative nor retributive. It is applying the law to the situation.


Cut and paste from http://www.nij.gov/topics/courts/restorative-justice/Pages/welcome.aspx

For some time now there has been growing dissatisfaction with the justice system. Citizens feel disconnected, victims are dissatisfied, and those working in the system are frustrated. Policymakers are increasingly concerned about the burgeoning cost of justice in the face of this discontent and the high rates of recidivism that exist.
Over the past decades, there has been growing interest in new approaches to justice, which involve the community and focus on the victim.
The current system, in which crime is considered an act against the State, works on a premise that largely ignores the victim and the community that is hurt most by crime. Instead, it focuses on punishing offenders without forcing them to face the impact of their crimes.
Restorative justice principles offer more inclusive processes and reorient the goals of justice. Restorative justice has been finding a receptive audience, as it creates common ground which accommodates the goals of many constituencies and provides a collective focus. The guiding principles of restorative justice are: [1]
1. Crime is an offense against human relationships.
2. Victims and the community are central to justice processes.
3. The first priority of justice processes is to assist victims.
4. The second priority is to restore the community, to the degree possible.
5. The offender has personal responsibility to victims and to the community for crimes committed.
6. Stakeholders share responsibilities for restorative justice through partnerships for action.
7. The offender will develop improved competency and understanding as a result of the restorative justice experience.

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Apr 30, 2014 13:26:33   #
rumitoid
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Justice: Application of law.

It is not restorative nor retributive. It is applying the law to the situation.


Cut and paste from http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Restorative_Justice.aspx
As the American criminal justice system enters the twenty-first century it continues to be faced with numerous unresolved problems. While some advocate greater retribution and harsher penalties, others continue to believe in the importance of rehabilitating criminals and preventing further crime. These conflicting views have led to an increasing lack of clarity about the basic purpose of sentencing. Is it meant to rehabilitate and change offender behavior? Are criminal sentences meant to deter others from committing crimes? Or should the purpose of sentencing be simply to incapacitate, by removing, the criminal from circulation in society for a set period of time?

Crime victims have traditionally been given virtually no legal standing in the process of doing justice in American courts, even though the justice system exists because individual citizens have been hurt by criminal behavior. Victims of crime feel increasingly frustrated and alienated by the current system of justice. The crime is against "the state" and state interests drive the process of doing justice. Individual crime victims are left on the sidelines with little, if any, input. Crime victims frequently feel twice victimized. First, by the offenders. Second, by the criminal justice system that their tax dollars are paying for. For many crime victims their encounter with the justice system leads to increasing frustration and anger as they are largely ignored, often not even provided with information about the process, court date changes, and the final disposition of the case. Rarely do criminal justice professionals take the time to listen to the fears and concerns of crime victims, seek their input, or invite their participation in holding an offender accountable.

Another problem facing the U.S. criminal justice system is that increasingly harsh punishments have failed to change criminal behavior. If severe punishment and incarceration were effective, America would be one of the safest societies in the world. Many citizens and politicians believe the United States is too lenient with criminals. The fact is, however, that more citizens are locked up in prisons in America, per capita, than in any developed nation in the world other than Russia. In a similar vein, sentences in the United States are far in excess of other democratic Western nations. The United States is the only developed nation to routinely advocate and carry out capital punishment.

Finally, the skyrocketing cost of corrections, and incarceration specifically, is driving a growing number of legislatures and policymakers to reconsider the wisdom of the current retributive system of justice, which relies so heavily upon incarceration, while largely ignoring the needs of crime victims.

The public debate around issues of crime and punishment is often driven by political leadership embracing the conservative or liberal solutions of the past. A significant new development in our thinking about crime and justice is the growing international interest

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Apr 30, 2014 14:40:16   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
rumitoid wrote:
Cut and paste from http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Restorative_Justice.aspx
As the American criminal justice system enters the twenty-first century it continues to be faced with numerous unresolved problems. While some advocate greater retribution and harsher penalties, others continue to believe in the importance of rehabilitating criminals and preventing further crime. These conflicting views have led to an increasing lack of clarity about the basic purpose of sentencing. Is it meant to rehabilitate and change offender behavior? Are criminal sentences meant to deter others from committing crimes? Or should the purpose of sentencing be simply to incapacitate, by removing, the criminal from circulation in society for a set period of time?

Crime victims have traditionally been given virtually no legal standing in the process of doing justice in American courts, even though the justice system exists because individual citizens have been hurt by criminal behavior. Victims of crime feel increasingly frustrated and alienated by the current system of justice. The crime is against "the state" and state interests drive the process of doing justice. Individual crime victims are left on the sidelines with little, if any, input. Crime victims frequently feel twice victimized. First, by the offenders. Second, by the criminal justice system that their tax dollars are paying for. For many crime victims their encounter with the justice system leads to increasing frustration and anger as they are largely ignored, often not even provided with information about the process, court date changes, and the final disposition of the case. Rarely do criminal justice professionals take the time to listen to the fears and concerns of crime victims, seek their input, or invite their participation in holding an offender accountable.

Another problem facing the U.S. criminal justice system is that increasingly harsh punishments have failed to change criminal behavior. If severe punishment and incarceration were effective, America would be one of the safest societies in the world. Many citizens and politicians believe the United States is too lenient with criminals. The fact is, however, that more citizens are locked up in prisons in America, per capita, than in any developed nation in the world other than Russia. In a similar vein, sentences in the United States are far in excess of other democratic Western nations. The United States is the only developed nation to routinely advocate and carry out capital punishment.

Finally, the skyrocketing cost of corrections, and incarceration specifically, is driving a growing number of legislatures and policymakers to reconsider the wisdom of the current retributive system of justice, which relies so heavily upon incarceration, while largely ignoring the needs of crime victims.

The public debate around issues of crime and punishment is often driven by political leadership embracing the conservative or liberal solutions of the past. A significant new development in our thinking about crime and justice is the growing international interest
Cut and paste from http://www.encyclopedia.com/top... (show quote)


You pervert the concept of justice for your own gratification.

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Apr 30, 2014 14:43:33   #
the learning squirrel
 
skott wrote:
When Jesus spoke it seemed more Liberal to me. Some of the apostles seem more conservative.


jesus WAS PROGRESSIVE
his teachings are NOW considered to be in line with CONSERVATIVE VIEWS.
keep that in mind

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Apr 30, 2014 16:39:43   #
rumitoid
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
You pervert the concept of justice for your own gratification.


I did not write that article or the other one.

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