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what can be said of the trump economy?
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Oct 15, 2018 00:23:28   #
elledee
 
economic policy,foreign policy,domestic policy....President Trump is getting it done!!!!! and all the pseudo intellectuals,economic guru's,social agitators,bed wetting lib-prog's and eternal malcontents get ready for your destiny .......irrelevance!!!!.....suck it up snowflakes!!!!

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 08:17:58   #
Bad Bob Loc: Virginia
 
permafrost wrote:
Tons of jobs, stock market out of its mind making money, wages up near 2%, how could I have any issue with the currect economy..

Well it all feels wrong.. nothing changed in my neck of the woods.. Same as we were in 2010.. why do I lay awake and worry about my grand kids and others making a living?

Looking for workers, need people. trained people.. money invested in updating many of the small business which make up the arrowhead of Minnesota..

Iron mining back to booming. but much opposition to nearly approved copper/nickel mining done by foreign companies..

so lets ask some experts, who have studied this boring stuff for a life time..

John Brazier is one of those who find economics so interesting he makes a living teaching it..

part of an article by him which he did not link, so all I have is the part I post..

>>>>>

I’m just going to focus on one area: the economy. Remember, despite Republican defiance and int***sigence, Obama hauled the US economy out of a massive recession and did it more quickly than any other country in the world (even though one might question some of his actions).

Trump, in the space of around 6 months - because he knows nothing about economics - has done the following:

Given a huge tax break to the wealthy and the corporations. This is meant to revitalize the economy. Unfortunately, the corporates don’t use it for investment but for share buy-backs, which artificially raises their stock value and thus raises the execs’ bonuses. The wealthy simply invest in the stock market, which further artificially raises the whole stock market value. The small amount that does make it to real business investment will actually do little because (a) the USA is near full employment: you can’t find people to fill the jobs, which causes wage inflation - the economy is overheating, and (b) we’re late in the business cycle: a slowdown is coming.
With the tax break, he has also declared a trade war with the whole of the world. These together significantly limits the government’s income, leading to more borrowing. In addition, Trump now has to borrow more so that he can subsidize soya farmers (for example) to keep them on-side during the war. The trade war will also directly hit US businesses, reducing their sales and profits, so slowing the economy down.
Trump is trying to stop the Fed from raising interest rates - which they must to (a) contain inflation, and (b) have enough ammunition in the interest rate to cut rates when the coming global recession will hit (and it is coming).
All these things are unfunded. The tax bill alone will increase the national debt by 1 to 2 trillion in the next few years; it is impossible to predict the borrowings needed for the trade war.
So Trump has created a huge bubble, riding on a perfect storm of unneeded stimulus, whilst simultaneously doing everything he can to shut down income flows - to both business and the government. And he’s trying to undermine the one institution that has the responsibility for trying to navigate the mess.

The result will be, come the next recession, an enormous crash which has the potential to make 2008 look like the warm-up act. For some time afterwards the economy will be a basket case and, which is unusual, one single culprit can and will be pointed out: Trump (with backup from the Republican party, who have appeared to have gone insane and abandoned everything they stood for, especially fiscal probity). He will go down in history as a terrible warning as to how the USA can screw up big-time if it really puts its mind to it.

So watch for the next few years: it could happen tomorrow, it could be years away. But it’s coming.

Just a final little stat to underline the great Trump competence. Remember his great stump promise about saving the coal miners? Well, the coal industry is cutting capacity and closing mines faster now than when Trump came into office: precisely as predicted by those who remain sane. Trump is now trying to stop it by Exec Order: sadly, economics will win.
Tons of jobs, stock market out of its mind making ... (show quote)



Reply
Oct 15, 2018 09:37:19   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
archie bunker wrote:
I even knew it was from a deer, Permi. I've seen the warnings about what to look for since this has become an issue. I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid!


I knew it as well Archie but I tend to limit my replies to prem's posting childish memes !

Once again we here in my area are seeing deer deaths by Blue Tongue we had that a few yrs ago and now it's baring it's ugly head once again !

Reply
 
 
Oct 15, 2018 09:51:21   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
permafrost wrote:
Tons of jobs, stock market out of its mind making money, wages up near 2%, how could I have any issue with the currect economy..

Well it all feels wrong.. nothing changed in my neck of the woods.. Same as we were in 2010.. why do I lay awake and worry about my grand kids and others making a living?

Looking for workers, need people. trained people.. money invested in updating many of the small business which make up the arrowhead of Minnesota..

Iron mining back to booming. but much opposition to nearly approved copper/nickel mining done by foreign companies..

so lets ask some experts, who have studied this boring stuff for a life time..

John Brazier is one of those who find economics so interesting he makes a living teaching it..

part of an article by him which he did not link, so all I have is the part I post..

>>>>>

I’m just going to focus on one area: the economy. Remember, despite Republican defiance and int***sigence, Obama hauled the US economy out of a massive recession and did it more quickly than any other country in the world (even though one might question some of his actions).

Trump, in the space of around 6 months - because he knows nothing about economics - has done the following:

Given a huge tax break to the wealthy and the corporations. This is meant to revitalize the economy. Unfortunately, the corporates don’t use it for investment but for share buy-backs, which artificially raises their stock value and thus raises the execs’ bonuses. The wealthy simply invest in the stock market, which further artificially raises the whole stock market value. The small amount that does make it to real business investment will actually do little because (a) the USA is near full employment: you can’t find people to fill the jobs, which causes wage inflation - the economy is overheating, and (b) we’re late in the business cycle: a slowdown is coming.
With the tax break, he has also declared a trade war with the whole of the world. These together significantly limits the government’s income, leading to more borrowing. In addition, Trump now has to borrow more so that he can subsidize soya farmers (for example) to keep them on-side during the war. The trade war will also directly hit US businesses, reducing their sales and profits, so slowing the economy down.
Trump is trying to stop the Fed from raising interest rates - which they must to (a) contain inflation, and (b) have enough ammunition in the interest rate to cut rates when the coming global recession will hit (and it is coming).
All these things are unfunded. The tax bill alone will increase the national debt by 1 to 2 trillion in the next few years; it is impossible to predict the borrowings needed for the trade war.
So Trump has created a huge bubble, riding on a perfect storm of unneeded stimulus, whilst simultaneously doing everything he can to shut down income flows - to both business and the government. And he’s trying to undermine the one institution that has the responsibility for trying to navigate the mess.

The result will be, come the next recession, an enormous crash which has the potential to make 2008 look like the warm-up act. For some time afterwards the economy will be a basket case and, which is unusual, one single culprit can and will be pointed out: Trump (with backup from the Republican party, who have appeared to have gone insane and abandoned everything they stood for, especially fiscal probity). He will go down in history as a terrible warning as to how the USA can screw up big-time if it really puts its mind to it.

So watch for the next few years: it could happen tomorrow, it could be years away. But it’s coming.

Just a final little stat to underline the great Trump competence. Remember his great stump promise about saving the coal miners? Well, the coal industry is cutting capacity and closing mines faster now than when Trump came into office: precisely as predicted by those who remain sane. Trump is now trying to stop it by Exec Order: sadly, economics will win.
Tons of jobs, stock market out of its mind making ... (show quote)


The next recession could be 20 years from now and you never-Trumps will still blame him.

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 10:09:37   #
Bad Bob Loc: Virginia
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
The next recession could be 20 years from now and you never-Trumps will still blame him.


Trump's debt will still be with our grandchildren.

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 10:43:13   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
Bad Bob wrote:
Trump's debt will still be with our grandchildren.


What about Obama's debt funny how you all forget !

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 10:49:01   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
vernon wrote:
Yea we need to go back to part time wages. WE also need to go back to no raises for years and no company benefits for part time. As far as business slowing down maybe or maybe not.The author is banking on the cycle coming soon that's possible. But rest assured we will have recessions and the dreaded depressions as long as we have freedom.
When government takes over the economy we have stagnation and poverty.
As far as 08 that was a 6 month recession that the obamas turned into 8 yrs and if hillery were elected we would be in a depression that would make the last depression look
like mild recession.
Yea we need to go back to part time wages. WE also... (show quote)



Vern,

If you truly believe what your post says, you need help.. a simple short review of the facts will tell you that the Bush recession was never going to be a 6 month turn down.

It was a world wide recession, the worst in 70 years..

If Lady Hillary had been elected, perhaps we would not have the trade wars, we definitely would not have had the unneeded gift of wealth to the very rich and we would not have the Russians involved in our government..



Reply
 
 
Oct 15, 2018 10:54:30   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
The next recession could be 20 years from now and you never-Trumps will still blame him.




maybe, but the fact that we are now in the 10th year of growth, which is a record.. It would seem that the experts, who all are picking only a couple more years at most would be correct.



Reply
Oct 15, 2018 11:07:19   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
4430 wrote:
What about Obama's debt funny how you all forget !




I think most people see a huge diffeance in motive..

President Obama had to deal with the Republican "kick the can down the road" spending..

two wars, unfunded plan D, Huge tax cuts by Bush, and the real recession which reduced tax revenue as spending on the credit cards increased..

So for 8 years the republicans declared the evil of this huge debt for which no alternative was ever given..

so now your orange savior is messing up America, nearly the first thing he does is give a huge unneeded cash gift to the rich and the corporations.. then a huge spending, bill without funding which added 1 and half trillion dollars to that national debt that was so evil when we had no choice..

Now the upcoming bills appear to be yet more money to the very rich and yet more over spending without funding..

But now you feel it is all fine and we will never have a problem with far over 20 trillion debt..

You are refusing to see what is being done to America right in front of your eyes..

In fact, you stand in public and cheer for the insults to our God given right, which you seem convinced only apply to part of our population..

If not just like you, they should have no rights..

Part of one more right wing hate group, spreading fear to the helpless while feeding their own infected egos..
Part of one more right wing hate group, spreading ...

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 11:32:42   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
permafrost wrote:
Tons of jobs, stock market out of its mind making money, wages up near 2%, how could I have any issue with the currect economy..

Well it all feels wrong.. nothing changed in my neck of the woods.. Same as we were in 2010.. why do I lay awake and worry about my grand kids and others making a living?

Looking for workers, need people. trained people.. money invested in updating many of the small business which make up the arrowhead of Minnesota..

Iron mining back to booming. but much opposition to nearly approved copper/nickel mining done by foreign companies..

so lets ask some experts, who have studied this boring stuff for a life time..

John Brazier is one of those who find economics so interesting he makes a living teaching it..

part of an article by him which he did not link, so all I have is the part I post..

>>>>>

I’m just going to focus on one area: the economy. Remember, despite Republican defiance and int***sigence, Obama hauled the US economy out of a massive recession and did it more quickly than any other country in the world (even though one might question some of his actions).

Trump, in the space of around 6 months - because he knows nothing about economics - has done the following:

Given a huge tax break to the wealthy and the corporations. This is meant to revitalize the economy. Unfortunately, the corporates don’t use it for investment but for share buy-backs, which artificially raises their stock value and thus raises the execs’ bonuses. The wealthy simply invest in the stock market, which further artificially raises the whole stock market value. The small amount that does make it to real business investment will actually do little because (a) the USA is near full employment: you can’t find people to fill the jobs, which causes wage inflation - the economy is overheating, and (b) we’re late in the business cycle: a slowdown is coming.
With the tax break, he has also declared a trade war with the whole of the world. These together significantly limits the government’s income, leading to more borrowing. In addition, Trump now has to borrow more so that he can subsidize soya farmers (for example) to keep them on-side during the war. The trade war will also directly hit US businesses, reducing their sales and profits, so slowing the economy down.
Trump is trying to stop the Fed from raising interest rates - which they must to (a) contain inflation, and (b) have enough ammunition in the interest rate to cut rates when the coming global recession will hit (and it is coming).
All these things are unfunded. The tax bill alone will increase the national debt by 1 to 2 trillion in the next few years; it is impossible to predict the borrowings needed for the trade war.
So Trump has created a huge bubble, riding on a perfect storm of unneeded stimulus, whilst simultaneously doing everything he can to shut down income flows - to both business and the government. And he’s trying to undermine the one institution that has the responsibility for trying to navigate the mess.

The result will be, come the next recession, an enormous crash which has the potential to make 2008 look like the warm-up act. For some time afterwards the economy will be a basket case and, which is unusual, one single culprit can and will be pointed out: Trump (with backup from the Republican party, who have appeared to have gone insane and abandoned everything they stood for, especially fiscal probity). He will go down in history as a terrible warning as to how the USA can screw up big-time if it really puts its mind to it.

So watch for the next few years: it could happen tomorrow, it could be years away. But it’s coming.

Just a final little stat to underline the great Trump competence. Remember his great stump promise about saving the coal miners? Well, the coal industry is cutting capacity and closing mines faster now than when Trump came into office: precisely as predicted by those who remain sane. Trump is now trying to stop it by Exec Order: sadly, economics will win.
Tons of jobs, stock market out of its mind making ... (show quote)



Hey Perm,

There is a very narrow lens that the media is deceptively selling in an anti (anything) Trump.

So what isn't the media saying?
. There are several benefits that far outweighs negatives a million to one, but talking about these things would put a shinning light on a Trump negotiation that would move GDP upwards in the 7-8 over decades.
http://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/06/a-major-factor-behind-the-us-china-trade-war-is-winning-in-a-crucial-t.html

This is one benefit that is a wait and see, but for sure we will know soon.

Take care

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 11:41:14   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
permafrost wrote:
maybe, but the fact that we are now in the 10th year of growth, which is a record.. It would seem that the experts, who all are picking only a couple more years at most would be correct.


The "experts" are ALWAYS wrong.

Reply
 
 
Oct 15, 2018 11:47:05   #
Sicilianthing
 
elledee wrote:
economic policy,foreign policy,domestic policy....President Trump is getting it done!!!!! and all the pseudo intellectuals,economic guru's,social agitators,bed wetting lib-prog's and eternal malcontents get ready for your destiny .......irrelevance!!!!.....suck it up snowflakes!!!!


>>>>

Whattabuncha CRAP!

Wallstreet booms at 10, 20, 30x’s earnings mysteriously...

Main Street keeps closing stores.
Going out of business
Final days
Liquidation
Everything must go
Downsizing
Consolidating
Layoffs
Eliminating positions
Bankruptcies are Soaring
Foreclosures are the next tsunami for 7 and 10 year ARMS
Commercial delinquencies are rising
Shadow inventory is everywhere...
Municipalities are crying they’re going broke but they have 2.1Trillion hidden in the CAFRS and they want more taxes from you ?

Wtf are you babbling about ?

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 11:47:15   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Seth wrote:
Ah, yes, economists.

The problem with economists, in all too many cases, is that they allow their personal politics to bias their -- what, "economizing?"

Look at NYT's Paul Krugman, for example. Every time he does a column about the economic policies of a Republican, you'd swear there was spittle flying across the keyboard there is so much undisguised fanatical hatred, and he never fails to forecast doom and gloom, yet the policies he condemns ALWAYS turn out to benefit the American people.

It figures that a l*****t who apparently can't do his own research and think for himself, which would seem to be the case with most people on the port side of the aisle these days, would grab some krank's personal opinion cloaked in the "credentials" of his academic pursuits and brandish it as though he were imparting great t***hs to the world.

Ad they say in southeastern Madagascar, "What a bunch of B.S.!"
Ah, yes, economists. br br The problem with econo... (show quote)




Every letter and every dot.. Obama pulled out our economy faster..... False, false, false.
Economist can dissect data, leave out data to conform a conclusion solely political. Which is exactly what this very deceptive journalist and economist have so blantonly done.

Trump is not the dummy so many make him out to be. He is a blurter. My wife is among the highest 1% IQ's but her weakness is her mouth, she blurts out, thinks later. "I probably shouldn't have said that" is something I here regularly and Trumps same weakness.
I think the trade war is a smoke screen and if both the l*****t and far right would step out of his way, better faster changes would take place.

Most do not understand the interlocking world economy with America's economy and not understanding the world's economy, its impossible to understand America's economy.

Here is an example of what Trump is trying to accomplish and if he does, the middle class will grow by several hundred percent, the GDP will easily double.

http://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/06/a-major-factor-behind-the-us-china-trade-war-is-winning-in-a-crucial-t.html

Reply
Oct 15, 2018 12:02:43   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Hey Perm,

There is a very narrow lens that the media is deceptively selling in an anti (anything) Trump.

So what isn't the media saying?
. There are several benefits that far outweighs negatives a million to one, but talking about these things would put a shinning light on a Trump negotiation that would move GDP upwards in the 7-8 over decades.
http://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/06/a-major-factor-behind-the-us-china-trade-war-is-winning-in-a-crucial-t.html

This is one benefit that is a wait and see, but for sure we will know soon.

Take care
Hey Perm, br br There is a very narrow lens that... (show quote)



Jack,

We are governed by a minority.. the orange wretch is the head of a sliver of our nation that somehow by hook and crook got put in power.. new more and more of our centuries old reputation is being destroyed by
as self serving, uninformed spoiled child of a man..

the conservatives, which for some unfathomable reason support this thing in the White house are counted they come out to about 30 million..

If not for the many momentary reasons that came to gether, he would never have soiled our white house.

i think the biggest single reason was complacency.. the polls, right up the day before e******n insisted a run away loss for the orange con..

So many sat on their lazy butt, didn`t v**e or v**ed 3rd party as a symbol..

Will we see them git off the couch and v**e for several e******ns? If they will, we may yet save our country..

But with the tactics of the GOP/Right wing, I t has to be a fearsome battle.. we have to be as rotten filthy scheming as the right wing republicans..

That seems to be a formidable task to place on the shoulder of real Americans..



Reply
Oct 15, 2018 12:03:47   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Sicilianthing wrote:
>>>>

Whattabuncha CRAP!

Wallstreet booms at 10, 20, 30x’s earnings mysteriously...

Main Street keeps closing stores.
Going out of business
Final days
Liquidation
Everything must go
Downsizing
Consolidating
Layoffs
Eliminating positions
Bankruptcies are Soaring
Foreclosures are the next tsunami for 7 and 10 year ARMS
Commercial delinquencies are rising
Shadow inventory is everywhere...
Municipalities are crying they’re going broke but they have 2.1Trillion hidden in the CAFRS and they want more taxes from you ?

Wtf are you babbling about ?
>>>> br br Whattabuncha CRAP! br br ... (show quote)




Your right, but I also think many of Trumps policies are extending the inevitably.

I don't think in these conversations many are aware we never had a "great Recession" based on accounting used in 1920's-1930's and t***slate it into how we calculate the last decade plus, we had a greater depression that 29. Far, far greater camouf**ged with welfare, food stamps, unemployment benefits extended two years, and trillions of dollars in QE. not to mention over 7 trillion QE that isn't on the books.
Using the t***h that we entered the greatest depression in 08/09 in history, better hellos others understand we are still in the depression but artificially being bubble gum and duct taped together just as Japan, The UK, Europe, China and Russia.
The question remains, is it a day, week, month or year when everything unravels. Even the elite of the elite won't escape it.

Reply
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