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Compassion: let's rough it up awhile and then see
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Feb 17, 2014 15:18:52   #
rumitoid
 
Grampy wrote:
Primum non nocere - First do no harm

Health Care

Cause and Effect--------- When change is to take place especially to the extent of health care. All consequences should have been weighed.
Suggest using a Rogerian Approach
A negotiating strategy in which common goals are identified and opposing views are described as objectively as possible in an effort to establish common ground and reach agreement.
Whereas traditional argument focuses on winning, the Rogerian model seeks a mutually satisfactory solution.
A solution based on the t***h would have satisfied everyone. The problems with the ACA could have been avoided.
My background is in automating solutions for the Medical provider industry and understand the challenges faced by all affected parties DRs, Patients, Insurers & government entities. This ACA business model had so many flaws in it that it will never work. Something better is needed and there are successful models out there that should have been followed.
Primum non nocere - First do no harm br br Health... (show quote)


This thread was not addressing the ACA.

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Feb 17, 2014 15:40:23   #
rumitoid
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Only if the government is God and Christ is it's son.

You miss quote that text "the least of these your brethren." I don't suppose you comprehend a difference, but that doesn't mean it is not there.

Governments are not omniscient or omnipotent and cannot alleviate suffering in the manner you claim they can.

The Law of the Christian's God commands, "Thou shalt not covet" and "Thou shalt not steal." Christians believe they are repentant t***sgressors of the commands of God, which means they have turned from violating his commands. If the Nation were "Christian" no person could want or take money taken by force. Taxes are taken by force, as it is criminal not to pay one's taxes.

I reject your entire hypothesis as false beginning to end.

Instead this whole concept of the government being capable of these miracles, I think, is form worshipping the government as a god. Your false god you claim capable of curing the ill, providing for the poor, and more.

The essence of religion and state are combined as one entity, both in your and my thinking.
Only if the government is God and Christ is it's s... (show quote)


You make assumptions as to what I may be thinking than argue against them. I never claimed governments can alleviate suffering in any manner. Where do you see that? All governments are worldly. I said for those who claim America is a Christian nation; I never made that claim.

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Feb 17, 2014 16:11:26   #
Grampy
 
rumitoid wrote:
This thread was not addressing the ACA.


Sorry did not explain that I was using as an example how the rogerian discussion would be used to help find the best answers to problems .
it was the first problem that came to mind

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Feb 17, 2014 16:55:43   #
Artemis
 
Grampy wrote:
Primum non nocere - First do no harm

Health Care

Cause and Effect--------- When change is to take place especially to the extent of health care. All consequences should have been weighed.
Suggest using a Rogerian Approach
A negotiating strategy in which common goals are identified and opposing views are described as objectively as possible in an effort to establish common ground and reach agreement.
Whereas traditional argument focuses on winning, the Rogerian model seeks a mutually satisfactory solution.
A solution based on the t***h would have satisfied everyone. The problems with the ACA could have been avoided.
My background is in automating solutions for the Medical provider industry and understand the challenges faced by all affected parties DRs, Patients, Insurers & government entities. This ACA business model had so many flaws in it that it will never work. Something better is needed and there are successful models out there that should have been followed.
Primum non nocere - First do no harm br br Health... (show quote)


This may be true, but in the past twenty years it never even made it to the table. ACA may have many flaws, but it has forced the conversation out in the open rather than sweeping it back under the rug while people continued on with their constant strife.

Why were there never standards that policies had to adhere to until now?

Why were there people who fell through the cracks under a pre-condition clause, which included new born babies?

Why were caps allowed and reached at a time before people finished their therapy, suddenly found themselves in a freefall to death. No so called "death panels" then?

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 17:24:38   #
Artemis
 
Grampy wrote:
The no Blame Game------- The T***h and Nothing but the t***h

Typical businessman’s strategy beginning of year sit down with accounting & go over budget Review costs, marketing, sales & cash flow.
Measure risks & rewards. Try to understand current market conditions make sure you can keep company going for yourself, employees and customers. Currently there is a negative feeling of doubt as to current market conditions raising capital, employee benefit cost , will economy grow etc.
Remember it all starts with private sector creating a value that drives the economy and it’s how employees, vendors & government gets paid. The private sector makes a better use of assets to create more assets or that company goes out of business and is replaced by a more efficient company always increasing Value or it dies.



So in the best interests of all we should help the private sector any way possible to grow and that’s how we will receive the revenue to use for all the good things.
The no Blame Game------- The T***h and Nothing but... (show quote)


We already do what is needed to do and that is to buy their product. The problem is not with all the thousands of small businesses. They are our foundation because they employ local citizens. I believe it is with the large ones going out of the US to produce their goods at a cheaper cost.

In this exchange they have reaped the rewards in increased profit but have not completed the cycle of the the return flow.

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 20:41:22   #
Grampy
 
maelstrom wrote:
This may be true, but in the past twenty years it never even made it to the table. ACA may have many flaws, but it has forced the conversation out in the open rather than sweeping it back under the rug while people continued on with their constant strife.

Why were there never standards that policies had to adhere to until now?

Why were there people who fell through the cracks under a pre-condition clause, which included new born babies?
Why were caps allowed and reached at a time before people finished their therapy, suddenly found themselves in a freefall to death. No so called "death panels" then?
This may be true, but in the past twenty years it ... (show quote)

You could always pay for those features like buying any product or service ...... you could also have setup high risk pools which insurance companies & probably some gov't subsidies could have been applied ....... instead write a three thousand page bill & Twenty thousand pages of regulations which no one reads... Does this make anyone feel safer...... Democrats could get anything they wanted and forced and chose this monster........ Many people are now in tremendous pain over this....... wait when you try and see a dr and You can't because very few drs will take the coverage as fee structure is too low

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 20:58:45   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
rumitoid wrote:
You make assumptions as to what I may be thinking than argue against them. I never claimed governments can alleviate suffering in any manner. Where do you see that? All governments are worldly. I said for those who claim America is a Christian nation; I never made that claim.


rumitoid wrote:
Is an advanced nation based on the we the people republic of America ready to let our fellow citizens die or be in extended pain because of self-indulgent tax distributions concerns


You are correct, I don't need to make assumptions, because you wrote that self-indulgent tax distribution concerns let our fellow citizens die or be in extended pain.

Reply
 
 
Feb 17, 2014 21:06:09   #
Grampy
 
maelstrom wrote:
We already do what is needed to do and that is to buy their product. The problem is not with all the thousands of small businesses. They are our foundation because they employ local citizens. I believe it is with the large ones going out of the US to produce their goods at a cheaper cost.

In this exchange they have reaped the rewards in increased profit but have not completed the cycle of the the return flow.

small business accounts for 80% of jobs very important segment. The regulations that they are asked to work under are stifling. Try and get a credit line/loan almost impossible. Now have Obamacare h*****g over your head It is a major cost to small business and business environment is seriously bad right now. Incentivize the business to return from abroad .... ask companies how can we bring you back ....... Example of Gov't stupidity NYS are driving business & 1% out of the state because of their tax policies
most egregious case one rich guy was sitting down paying 13,000 a day in taxes and they wanted to increase it still more so he reached the breaking pt & left ... height of stupidity not even incompetence........ Gov't job is protect & serve Leave the rest to the professionals in the private sector

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