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Compassion: let's rough it up awhile and then see
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Feb 16, 2014 12:57:43   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
fom wrote:
You are way off base but then you probly have no compassion


Such an assertion affirms my thinking.

My unbelief in the power of the government to give life to the dying and relieve the suffering of those in pain is asserted to be caused by a lack of compassion. If I cared for my fellow Americans, I would believe in the prophesied miracles to be performed by the American government.

My libations of sweat, blood, and tears combined with giving offerings of taxes would make the miracles possible. My lack of compassion is prohibiting our government from performing these miracles.

Our government is a false god, impotent, incapable of giving life or alleviating suffering.

My faith, or lack thereof, cannot change reality.

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 13:09:16   #
LurkingTom Loc: North Dakota
 
1OldGeezer wrote:
Are the Democrats ever going to get off this "Everyone is a victim" kick trying to expand government power?

Can we just take care of those who are really needy without total government control of our lives?

Are the majority of the citizens really too stupid or unable to make their own decisions or take care of themselves ?

Does the Federal government really make a realistic assessment of "need" before handing out your tax dollars? Could local government or charities do a better job?

1oldgeezer
Are the Democrats ever going to get off this "... (show quote)


Yes!

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 13:55:50   #
Grampy
 
rumitoid wrote:
Is an advanced nation based on the we the people republic of America ready to let our fellow citizens die or be in extended pain because of self-indulgent tax distributions concerns


Primum non nocere - First do no harm

Health Care

Cause and Effect--------- When change is to take place especially to the extent of health care. All consequences should have been weighed.
Suggest using a Rogerian Approach
A negotiating strategy in which common goals are identified and opposing views are described as objectively as possible in an effort to establish common ground and reach agreement.
Whereas traditional argument focuses on winning, the Rogerian model seeks a mutually satisfactory solution.
A solution based on the t***h would have satisfied everyone. The problems with the ACA could have been avoided.
My background is in automating solutions for the Medical provider industry and understand the challenges faced by all affected parties DRs, Patients, Insurers & government entities. This ACA business model had so many flaws in it that it will never work. Something better is needed and there are successful models out there that should have been followed.

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Feb 17, 2014 07:15:09   #
1OldGeezer
 
fom wrote:
I volunteer with a charity group The Knights of Columbus. Each Christmas we give away $75,000 in food boxces to about 1000 familys in our area. We barely make it though we work on fund raisers all year long. Why? because by nature people are selfish and will not give a thing to charity. No way will charitys be able to feed every poor person or pay for their medical needs. The government need not take control to make provisions for the unfortunate. Having a heart is not socialism.


fom,
Your statement: "Why? because by nature people are selfish and will not give a thing to charity." unquote

What a ridiculous statement, it doesn't speak very highly of your opinion of other people nor is it truly representative of what is happening around this country.

And again, as always, the implication that conservatives do not want to give the TRULY NEEDY help, that is wrong. The federal government needs to stop buying v**es with taxpayer "gifts" to those who can take care of themselves. (Note - taxpayer "gifts" have to be taken from someone else first before they can be given)

With an attitude like what you apparently have, I can see why you are supporting Raylan and the Democrats. WOW

I h**e to say this, but maybe you just make up things about your personal experiences to put on these posts as long as they support some liberal point???
1oldgeezer

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 07:56:35   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
What do you give to charity? Do you hang up the phone? Do you throw away the Junk mail? If you do do charity work do you notice it is hard to recruit others to help and it's always the same few who do the work? If not you who? If not now when?
1OldGeezer wrote:
fom,
Your statement: "Why? because by nature people are selfish and will not give a thing to charity." unquote

What a ridiculous statement, it doesn't speak very highly of your opinion of other people nor is it truly representative of what is happening around this country.

And again, as always, the implication that conservatives do not want to give the TRULY NEEDY help, that is wrong. The federal government needs to stop buying v**es with taxpayer "gifts" to those who can take care of themselves. (Note - taxpayer "gifts" have to be taken from someone else first before they can be given)

With an attitude like what you apparently have, I can see why you are supporting Raylan and the Democrats. WOW

I h**e to say this, but maybe you just make up things about your personal experiences to put on these posts as long as they support some liberal point???
1oldgeezer
fom, br Your statement: "Why? because by natu... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 08:36:42   #
Grampy
 
fom wrote:
What do you give to charity? Do you hang up the phone? Do you throw away the Junk mail? If you do do charity work do you notice it is hard to recruit others to help and it's always the same few who do the work? If not you who? If not now when?


The question is why do we have a need for so much charity & welfare? Get to the root cause & fix that. So search for the T***H. Remember give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him forever. In doing the research examine the facts and the consequences of their effects. Sometimes the cure is worse than the fix. If the fix with all its good intentions is not working then stop and try something else. Always analyze your solution for problems before executing for everyone's sake

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 08:41:01   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Grampy wrote:
The question is why do we have a need for so much charity & welfare? Get to the root cause & fix that. So search for the T***H. Remember give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him forever. In doing the research examine the facts and the consequences of their effects. Sometimes the cure is worse than the fix. If the fix with all its good intentions is not working then stop and try something else. Always analyze your solution for problems before executing for everyone's sake
The question is why do we have a need for so much ... (show quote)


My charitable giving is confined to local charities that are staffed by unpaid volunteers, so pretty much 100% of the money goes where it is supposed to. Of course you have small expenses like gas, rent and utilities, but these volunteers work for free. I have helped out some myself, with cooking meals and walloping pots afterwards. These are not professionally staffed, just people who donate a little time or money.

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Feb 17, 2014 10:31:58   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
A lot of the need for charity comes from a society that does not give a minority person a fair shake. Some people are handicapped and disability payments don't adequetly cover their living expences. Granted there are drunks and druggies looking for a handout. but should not the fortunate help the unfortunate?Turning our backs does not make the problem go away.
Grampy wrote:
The question is why do we have a need for so much charity & welfare? Get to the root cause & fix that. So search for the T***H. Remember give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him forever. In doing the research examine the facts and the consequences of their effects. Sometimes the cure is worse than the fix. If the fix with all its good intentions is not working then stop and try something else. Always analyze your solution for problems before executing for everyone's sake
The question is why do we have a need for so much ... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 11:41:53   #
Artemis
 
Brian Devon wrote:
........and the envelope please. The winner for squandering the nations's treasure is the U.S. military and all of the greedy blood-sucking homicidal contractors attached to it.

630 BILLION DOLLARS!!!!!! The far right would love to put the portrait of chickenhawk Dick Cheney on our new $3 bill!


Corporate increases have been higher than ever before something like up283%. Instead of taking much of their profit "out" of the US, they could choose to create new businesses, new industry and new jobs, thereby downsizing the population of the so called lazy ass entitled and get us building and producing again, employed again, increasing the value of the US dollar again

But it's not happening is it, not as it should be. You guys who are pro-corporate and antigovernment answer that, without the old scapegoat blame game.

Where are they, these so called "job creators" where are they when we need them the most?

Could it be they're over there investing in another country after they made their profits from the US consumer?

This is why the dems. are reverting to the government to try and pull us out of this mess, is because the so called freedom and constitution advocates are in the process of turning their backs on us and helping other countries through employing them.

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 11:50:48   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
maelstrom wrote:
Corporate increases have been higher than ever before something like up283%. Instead of taking much of their profit "out" of the US, they could choose to create new businesses, new industry and new jobs, thereby downsizing the population of the so called lazy ass entitled and get us building and producing again, employed again, increasing the value of the US dollar again

But it's not happening is it, not as it should be. You guys who are pro-corporate and antigovernment answer that, without the old scapegoat blame game.

Where are they, these so called "job creators" where are they when we need them the most?

Could it be they're over there investing in another country after they made their profits from the US consumer?

This is why the dems. are reverting to the government to try and pull us out of this mess, is because the so called freedom and constitution advocates are in the process of turning their backs on us and helping other countries through employing them.
Corporate increases have been higher than ever bef... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 12:22:40   #
rumitoid
 
1OldGeezer wrote:
Are the Democrats ever going to get off this "Everyone is a victim" kick trying to expand government power?

Can we just take care of those who are really needy without total government control of our lives?

Are the majority of the citizens really too stupid or unable to make their own decisions or take care of themselves ?

Does the Federal government really make a realistic assessment of "need" before handing out your tax dollars? Could local government or charities do a better job?

1oldgeezer
Are the Democrats ever going to get off this "... (show quote)


Ask those questions to disabled veterans or children of the poor for the best answer. Or the elderly on a fixed income.

Reply
 
 
Feb 17, 2014 13:05:45   #
rumitoid
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
I like how your statement isn't really a question, as it has no question mark.
Is our "advanced nation" able to determine who lives and dies based on "tax distribution?"

Is this "advanced nation" able to cause or alleviate suffering of pain through collection and distribution of taxes?

It seems to me you have placed the American government before God to be worshipped and served. Even if you are not a believer in God, I think this mindset is kind of a version of Emperor worship, both, primitive and superstitious...
I like how your statement isn't really a question,... (show quote)


If some want to claim that America is a Christian nation, first and foremost to Christ (and upon which all will be judged) is how we treat "the least of these." 10% of taxes for the needy (or more if necessary) would make America a Christian nation.

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 13:52:43   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
rumitoid wrote:
If some want to claim that America is a Christian nation, first and foremost to Christ (and upon which all will be judged) is how we treat "the least of these." 10% of taxes for the needy (or more if necessary) would make America a Christian nation.


Only if the government is God and Christ is it's son.

You miss quote that text "the least of these your brethren." I don't suppose you comprehend a difference, but that doesn't mean it is not there.

Governments are not omniscient or omnipotent and cannot alleviate suffering in the manner you claim they can.

The Law of the Christian's God commands, "Thou shalt not covet" and "Thou shalt not steal." Christians believe they are repentant t***sgressors of the commands of God, which means they have turned from violating his commands. If the Nation were "Christian" no person could want or take money taken by force. Taxes are taken by force, as it is criminal not to pay one's taxes.

I reject your entire hypothesis as false beginning to end.

Instead this whole concept of the government being capable of these miracles, I think, is form worshipping the government as a god. Your false god you claim capable of curing the ill, providing for the poor, and more.

The essence of religion and state are combined as one entity, both in your and my thinking.

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 14:07:02   #
Grampy
 
maelstrom wrote:
Corporate increases have been higher than ever before something like up283%. Instead of taking much of their profit "out" of the US, they could choose to create new businesses, new industry and new jobs, thereby downsizing the population of the so called lazy ass entitled and get us building and producing again, employed again, increasing the value of the US dollar again

But it's not happening is it, not as it should be. You guys who are pro-corporate and antigovernment answer that, without the old scapegoat blame game.

The no Blame Game------- The T***h and Nothing but the t***h

Typical businessman’s strategy beginning of year sit down with accounting & go over budget Review costs, marketing, sales & cash flow.
Measure risks & rewards. Try to understand current market conditions make sure you can keep company going for yourself, employees and customers. Currently there is a negative feeling of doubt as to current market conditions raising capital, employee benefit cost , will economy grow etc.
Remember it all starts with private sector creating a value that drives the economy and it’s how employees, vendors & government gets paid. The private sector makes a better use of assets to create more assets or that company goes out of business and is replaced by a more efficient company always increasing Value or it dies. So in the best interests of all we should help the private sector any way possible to grow and that’s how we will receive the benefits to use for all the good things.


Where are they, these so called "job creators" where are they when we need them the most?

Could it be they're over there investing in another country after they made their profits from the US consumer?

This is why the dems. are reverting to the government to try and pull us out of this mess, is because the so called freedom and constitution advocates are in the process of turning their backs on us and helping other countries through employing them.
Corporate increases have been higher than ever bef... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 14:18:21   #
Grampy
 
maelstrom wrote:
Corporate increases have been higher than ever before something like up283%. Instead of taking much of their profit "out" of the US, they could choose to create new businesses, new industry and new jobs, thereby downsizing the population of the so called lazy ass entitled and get us building and producing again, employed again, increasing the value of the US dollar again

But it's not happening is it, not as it should be. You guys who are pro-corporate and antigovernment answer that, without the old scapegoat blame game.

Where are they, these so called "job creators" where are they when we need them the most?

Could it be they're over there investing in another country after they made their profits from the US consumer?

This is why the dems. are reverting to the government to try and pull us out of this mess, is because the so called freedom and constitution advocates are in the process of turning their backs on us and helping other countries through employing them.
Corporate increases have been higher than ever bef... (show quote)


The no Blame Game------- The T***h and Nothing but the t***h

Typical businessman’s strategy beginning of year sit down with accounting & go over budget Review costs, marketing, sales & cash flow.
Measure risks & rewards. Try to understand current market conditions make sure you can keep company going for yourself, employees and customers. Currently there is a negative feeling of doubt as to current market conditions raising capital, employee benefit cost , will economy grow etc.
Remember it all starts with private sector creating a value that drives the economy and it’s how employees, vendors & government gets paid. The private sector makes a better use of assets to create more assets or that company goes out of business and is replaced by a more efficient company always increasing Value or it dies. So in the best interests of all we should help the private sector any way possible to grow and that’s how we will receive the revenue to use for all the good things.

Reply
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